March 25, 2026 · Judiciary · 26,492 words · 15 speakers · 59 segments
. . The committee will come to order. Shipley, please call the roll.
Representatives, Bacon. Here. Clifford. Here. Espinosa. Here. Linnell. Here. Garcia. Here. Kelty. Excused. Slaw. Excused. Soper. Here. Zokai. Excused. Carter. Present. Mr. Chair. Here.
All right, folks, we got two bills today. We have a decent amount of witnesses, and we're getting started later in the day. So I am going to have witness testimony be trimmed to two minutes, and I will do 15-minute panels for questions. And we are going to start with House Bill 1322, whoever would like to begin. Rep Beldez.
Thank you Mr. Chair and thank you committee It's interesting to be back in judiciary for like the second time in two weeks or something like that It's not normal for me but I am excited to be here this afternoon this evening With a wonderful bill So for those of you who don't know and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't I grew up in the early 1990s and this was A time when things like conversion therapy were normal And we heard stories about this from our peers But more importantly, I think the literature of the time for LGBTQ people became centered around this being sent away to conversion therapy camp and what that was really about and how that made people feel, how that ultimately isn't going to fix something because something isn't broken inherently. and how at the end of the day it doesn't work because it is not something that needs to be changed. And so at the end of the day, what we've seen historically is that conversion therapy, the practice itself, inflicts a lot of psychological harm on people. Beyond really just understanding that whoever it is that's sending, in many cases it's the parents, and it's a clear signal that someone is telling you that something is wrong with you. Well, something is not wrong with you. Something has never been wrong with anybody, and there should have never been anybody who was attempted to be converted. At the same time, I think when we look at the issue as it stands before us today, we at a time when we seeing a resurgence in some of the fundamental underlying belief systems that drove people to seek this kind of therapy in the first place It not going to change anything I would venture to say that no one has ever gone to conversion quote-unquote therapy and become anything back other than themselves. And that's okay. And we want that message to be sent Colorado-wide. So when I was here way back in 2019, we thought we had done a lot to take care of the issue of conversion therapy and effectively banning the practice in the state of Colorado. We did that with a massive majority. We were joined by folks on both sides of the aisle in an affirmation that this was not something that we as Coloradans believed in, and it's not a practice that we wanted to condone within our four borders. So today I'm excited to bring you House Bill 1322, which is a continuation of this fight against this cruel practice. It's about ensuring that when licensed professional causes harm survivors have a fair opportunity to seek justice. 1322 basically here's what the bill does. It gives people who have been harmed by conversion therapy more time to bring civil claim against licensed mental health practitioners. It removes the statute of limitations for those claims recognizing that harm caused by these practice often takes years to fully understand and to process and to materialize. It applies only to licensed mental health providers and responsible entities, those who are licensed by the state. It does not create criminal penalties, and it does not create a new cause of action. These claims already exist under Colorado law. What the bill does is make sure that existing pathways to accountability are more accessible, and it matters because of how this harm shows up and when it shows up in life. And, you know, as an LGBTQ man, as somebody who grew up with a lot of people who were subjected to this therapy, it can take many, many years to come to terms with being sent away for any reason, let alone something you really don't have control over. The premise is not supported by science that this works. It causes real harm. Peer-reviewed research in every medical and mental health association have documented increased risks of depression, anxiety, suicidality, and long-term psychological distress. We also see lasting impacts on a person's sense of self and their relationships and their trust and care in the systems that folks need to trust to live healthy and happy lives. Survivors may not immediately recognize what happened as harm because a lot of times this happens when someone is very young. That was the pattern back then. It remains the pattern today. The delay is not incidental. It is a direct result of shame and what is embedded with you within that practice, which is something's wrong with you, And it sometimes takes a lot of years for someone to say, no, it's not, and the harm that I suffered for being told that something was wrong is on you. You're a licensed professional. You know how this works. 1322 corrects a lot of those problems that exist now. It aligns our legal framework with what we already recognize in other areas that some forms of trauma take time to process and disclose. It ensures survivors are not denied justice simply because healing takes time. Growing up takes time. Learning about the harms caused takes time. This bill also stands independently of any ongoing legal challenges to Colorado's existing law, a law that was passed, like I said, by this body in a very large margin. Regardless of what happens in the courts survivors who have already been harmed deserve access to justice and Colorado deserves to hear from the elected officials doubling down saying that we understand this is not a practice that we condone because it is not a practice that is needed We hope for a day when equality will truly be reached, when people understand that there's nothing that needs to be converted, and therefore conversion therapy will be gone forever. Until that time, we continue the fight forward in making sure that people have access to justice. and I'm really excited to run this bill this year with Representative McCormick, who I will turn it over to at this point.
Yeah. With the record show, we've been joined by Rep. Zokai and Rep. Kelty. Rep. McCormick.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Representative Valdez. I think this is the first bill we've ever run together, so that's fun. Being in front of judiciary, though, is maybe not as fun, but I'm going to get through it. I wanted to bring a little bit about a personal story, not to me, but to somebody here in Colorado, that this bill means a lot to. I am the parent of a trans kid, though, and so this bill matters from that viewpoint, knowing that our family accepted my kid from the get-go. and there was never a question about who they were or how they were going to go out into the world. I have heard from families across Colorado who have lived through conversion therapy, and it is not an abstract policy, as my co-prime described. It is something that has shaped those kids' lives and their family lives in very profound and lasting ways. One of those mothers is Joyce Calvo. her daughter Alana was a young woman full of promise deeply committed to her faith in her community and and her future and as a teenager she began seeking guidance because she was trying to understand who she was over time that led to her conversion therapy including with licensed professionals who promised that they could help her change and explicitly telling Alana not to share that therapy with her family. So what followed was years of deepening shame for Alana, isolation and struggle. And her family didn't understand what was happening to her until the impacts became impossible to ignore. She suffered from severe depression, self-harm, hospitalizations. They did what any family would do in that case. They tried to get her help. They showed up. They loved her, and still they lost her. After her death, her family was not only left with grief, but a whole bunch of questions about what happened, who was involved, who was responsible, and any path to accountability to the harm that she experienced. And what they found was that the timeline to seek justice did not match the reality that they were living. Many of us know that grief doesn't follow any particular timeline, and trauma certainly does not resolve in a two-year time period. So understanding what happened, and especially the harm that was delivered in that case and many other cases, takes time. And that time is part of what this law, the gap in this law, addresses. HB 261322 ensures that when licensed mental health professionals engage in practices that cause harm and we know that they do Every major medical and mental health organization has rejected these practices as ineffective and dangerous Survivors and families are not shut out of the legal system before they even have we want to make sure they're not shut out of the legal system before they have a chance to understand what happened. Today you will hear from impacted people across faith community, faith leaders, community leaders, social workers, therapists, and legal experts, all speaking to the reality of this harm and the need for accountability. This bill is about making sure that no family is denied that opportunity, simply because healing takes time, and we hope that you will support this bill today. Thank you.
Committee members, questions for our bill sponsors? Rep Flannell. thank you mr chair thank you bill sponsors what safeguards are in the bill to ensure that therapists can still discuss topics such as like celibacy chastity other topics such as clients faith without fear that disagreement with that it doesn't doesn't you know fall into that that category of conversion therapy.
Rhett McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, Representative Flannell. On page five and six, it does talk about what this does not include and what is allowed specifically to the issue that's being addressed in this bill. So counseling therapy that provides assistance to a patient undergoing gender transition, just the counseling is fine. The counseling that provides acceptance, support, and understanding of a patient, you can see them all there, A, B, C, D, are things that if it has to do with this particular topic that comes up as far as a person exploring their gender identity or sexual orientation, as long as that counseling is neutral in respect to those two things, so that doesn't include some of the things that you mentioned, is continue to be accepted. So we're really looking to make sure that those harmful practices that create shame and lead to depression and anxiety and suicidality are eliminated from those practices.
Rev Planell. Oh, Rev Valdez.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was just going to add, in addition to what my co-prime said there, it further then defines folks that would be subject as folks who are a licensed mental health professional who engages in sexual orientation or gender identity change efforts. So it does go more to specifying what's covered in the section after it talks about what's excluded.
Rep Flanel. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And also just doing a little bit of research. So Colorado already bans conversion therapy for minors and allows malpractice and professional discipline actions for harmful conduct. What are these, why would you say that the existing tools are insufficient as is?
Grant McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe it's because the statute of limitations is now set at two years and we want to align This practice is similar to what happens with sexual assault victims, where it does take time to realize the harm that you have experienced, and it doesn't necessarily show up in just two years as far as that realization. So to be able to align this with that current practice for sexual assault victims.
Rev. Plano. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Do you think that by extending this, by broadening this, that it, I know that as it is, there are therapists that are already limited. We're already, it's already, it's, I know that there isn't a lot of mental health providers as is. do you think that this potentially prevents mental health providers from taking on clients that might be transgender because they might fear that they are stepping a fine line, that this could somehow come back and they could, you know, possibly say that, you know, that they try to use this, like, use some sort of, conversion therapy on them.
Rob Valdes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Representative Flannell. I think that some of our experts will probably be folks that can really dig in on that question, but at the same time, I think that the bill makes it pretty clear that this is for folks that have been retained and are offering the service of changing folks in this way. And so we think that not only hems it in, but really identifies the practice that currently is illegal in the state and that we intend to continue to scrutinize in such a way.
Rob Kelty. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my question is, does this or will this somehow, I'm not seeing it in the bill, but will it give some sort of protection for those who want to detransition or deconversion or however you call it, for those who are harmed by therapy that helped them go through their conversion and then they realize they were wrong and they want to deconversion or detransition? Does it help them at all?
Brett McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And Representative Kelty, I do know that there is an attorney that helped really make sure that we were crafting this in a way to protect those that were harmed by conversion therapy. And I would encourage you, I think this person might be on the first panel, to ask that question going forward to make sure that you understand how this is specifically protecting people from harm and won't necessarily stop people that need to detransition.
Further questions? Okay. Seeing none, we will go to the witness testimony phase. Okay Gabby Doyle Nii Nguyen Shannon Minter and Aaron Harup Okay, let's start with Gabby Doyle. You will have two minutes. State any organization you represent. You may begin. Good afternoon, Chair Mabry and members of the committee. My name is Gabby Doyle, and I'm testifying in support of HB 261322 on behalf of the Trevor Project, the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention organization for LGBTQ young people. We provide 24-7 crisis intervention services to young people aged 13 to 24 across the country, and our research shows that 41% of LGBTQ young people in Colorado seriously considered suicide in the past year. To help end this crisis, Trevor is dedicated to stopping practices commonly referred to as conversion therapy. Practices condemned, as mentioned, by every reputable medical and mental health organization as harmful and effective and built on theories that have been debunked for decades. While some may think this is a harmful practice as a thing of the past, our research cited in our written testimony has found that it is actually on the rise with at least 1,300 active practitioners documented across the country. At Trevor, we don't just oppose conversion therapy on principle. We see its consequences every day in our crisis work. Our 2024 national survey found that more than one in seven of Colorado's LGBTQ young people were threatened with or subjected to conversion therapy. And those young people were more than twice as likely to report a suicide attempt in the past year. This harm is ongoing and so are the costs associated with it. A peer-reviewed study in an American Medical Association journal found that practitioners have extracted millions from vulnerable families to pay for these practices to the tune of $650 million in direct costs annually. And this bill ensures survivors have the opportunity to hold them financially accountable. Survivors deserve justice, but seeking justice requires time. Time for survivors to process what happened to them, time to heal enough from shame and manipulation to come forward, and the current statute of limitations doesn't account for the severity or complexity of these harms, and this bill gives survivors the time they need. The Trevor Project strongly supports HB 26-13-22, and when a young person calls our crisis line in the middle of the night in their darkest moments, we answer. And today, you have the chance to answer, too, by helping survivors hold conversion therapists accountable, and we urge you to pass this bill. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, we'll now hear from Ni Wen. You will have two minutes. State any organization you represent. You may begin. Hello, Chair and members of the House Judiciary Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today in support of House Bill 26-13-22. My name is Ni Nguyen. My pronouns are she, her, and I'm from Boulder, Colorado. I want to tell you about my friend Alana, a beloved member of our community who took her own life several years ago after experiencing the trauma of conversion therapy from the age of 15. When I think of Alana, I think of the impact she had on people during her life, whether she knew them or not. Her instinct was always to help. You could be driving near the CU Boulder campus and see Alana on the hill chatting with someone who was houseless or bringing them food Starting in high school and extending through college she did things like that all the time without needing to be recognized for it That just who she was Seven years after her passing, she's left a huge mark on people who knew her and many people who didn't know her as well. Alana took her own life in December 2019 after several horrifying years of conversion therapy at the hands of a licensed counselor she was referred to by her trusted church leader. The people she trusted and believed in tried to change who she was. The harm didn't just affect her beautiful soul, it took her from us. This is not the first time this has happened. Many LGBTQIA plus youth experience the same kind of harm. This bill matters because it addresses that harm. Alana's family and those like hers might have had the chance at some measure of justice had this been passed earlier. At its core, conversion therapy should continue to not be an allowed practice. And at the very least, I'm asking for support of this bill so that no more families have to carry this kind of grief and loss, and so that survivors have the opportunity to be heard. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, now we'll hear from Shannon Minter. You will have two minutes. State in the organization you represent. You may begin. Thanks. I'm Shannon Minter. I'm the legal director of the National Center for LGBTQ Rights. I'm a lawyer, so I am here really just to answer any legal questions people may have about the bill. I'll briefly address the question raised about would this protect someone who detransitions, just to say this bill defines conversion therapy with the help of mental health professionals very carefully, very narrowly, very specifically to address practices that are trying to promise to change who a young person is, that seek to impose a predetermined outcome in terms of sexual orientation or gender identity. We know the real world problem is unethical therapists who tell families and young people, I can make your child not gay or not transgender. However, the bill as a legal matter is crafted to be extremely even handed. If there were a therapist who are seeking to pressure a young person to be transgender, That's not something that I have encountered in the real world. However, if that happened, if there was a therapist who was doing that, the bill would protect that young person as well. I should say that in every case, people do have to meet all the elements of a malpractice action. They have to show harm. They have to show that what the therapist did violated the standard of care. and that is a very serious barrier. It's hard to bring these challenges and the point of this bill is to recognize that when a young person is harmed by these unethical practices, they deserve a fair chance to have their day in court and the therapy itself induces shame that makes it so difficult. Young people internalize that quote unquote failure. They blame themselves. It takes often years for them to understand that what happened to them was harmful and wrong. And this bill is just designed to address that and to ensure there's real accountability for therapists to engage in practices that violate very clearly established standards of care. Thank you. Okay, now we'll hear from Erin Harap. You will have two minutes. Stay in the organization you represent. You may begin. Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Erin Harap. they them pronouns and I live in Aurora. I'm a licensed social worker, have my PhD in social welfare and I a parent of two trans children My father is a Baptist minister and I was a highly religious child and I found and still find significant meaning in my faith I was also non and queer which I knew were sins and rebellion against God Dresses for church were a weekly battle. I starved to make my chest flat. My body was sinful, needing control and punishment. No amount of prayer, Bible study, or confession made me straight, but it did fill me with shame and a life-threatening eating disorder. Though my gender and sexuality struggles were a big part of my eating disorder, I rarely brought them up to my male Christian therapist that my parents chose. When I tried at 15, I was shut down, told to focus on my femininity, to not act on my same-sex attraction, and told it was fine for me to be a tomboy as long as I wore dresses for church and looked sexy for my future husband. My depression and self-harm increased. I shut down, married a man, and was in and out of treatment centers for two decades. When I finally came out as non-binary and queer in my 30s, I experienced family rejection, church exclusion, and a resurgence of suicidality. I still struggle to believe that I'm good, deserving of love, and I have many queer friends who struggle similarly, especially those who had conversion therapy. Beliefs about sexuality and gender are deeply ingrained. It took me nine years to recognize my own sexual abuse due to the teachings of my church, and it took similarly decades to understand the harm of the small amount of conversion therapy that I received. This is why I find two aspects of this bill particularly important. One, the extended time frame to bring the claim, and two, the exception for unlicensed clergy. This is because I still respect my father's right to practice his religious calling as he interprets it. But licensed mental health counselors are different. We are held to codes of ethics that rely on evidence-based treatment. Affirmation is not ideological, and it is evidence-based and I urge you to support this bill. Thank you. Okay, committee members, questions for this panel of witnesses? Okay, seeing none. Thank you for your time and for your testimony. Okay, Alex Floyd, Sarah Michaud, Don Fritz, and Jackie Stanton. Okay, we'll start with Alex Floyd. You'll have two minutes. Stay in the organization you represent. You may begin. Let me show the mic's on. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee. My name is Alex Floyd. My pronouns are they, them, and I'm a health equity director for One Colorado. I'm a licensed clinical therapist who practiced for eight plus years, and I'm the survivor of religious-based conversion practices. I'm here to ask you to vote yes on HB 1322. I grew up steeped in conversion therapy ideology. Before I had my first crush, I knew it better be on a boy. I spent hours in church listening to story after story of ex-gays who were able to enter into a traditional relationship, even marriages, after letting go of their quote-unquote sinful ways. I was told time and time again that if I just prayed hard enough and believed, I too could get rid of the shameful secrets, thoughts I was having about girls. All of this eventually led to an unfulfilling marriage followed by divorce and a diagnosis of PTSD and obsessive-compulsive disorder. I walked away from the religious institutes that taught me these beliefs over a decade ago. I have been in therapy for most of my adult life. To this day, I still have moments where the thoughts of demonstrating any physical affection towards my wife can't. me anxiety. I have struggled to perform the essential duties of my job because the event we were hosting happened to be at a church. I take daily medication to keep the obsessive thoughts and compulsive behaviors related to my sexuality and morality at bay. I have testified here many times before, and this is by far the most nervous I have ever been, because naming that someone who is supposed to care about you actually caused immense harm is confusing and takes a long time to unpack. And speaking out against an abuser is always terrifying. But the only people who benefit from a survivor being told that it's too late to tell their story are those who stand with the abuser. Multiple trauma experts have named that seeking justice is a crucial step of healing from trauma and abuse. There is no pathway forward for me to hold accountable the trusted adults in my life who instilled these harmful beliefs in me. So I'm here today to seek justice for those who can, to advocate for those who would have a pathway to justice if this bill is passed. I ask you to vote yesterday on HB 1322 to give every survivor of conversion therapy their best chance at healing and moving on to living fulfilled, joy-filled lives. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, we'll now hear from Sarah Machad. You will have two minutes to stay in the organization you represent. You may begin. Hi, my name is Sarah Machad. I'm a licensed clinical social worker in the state of Colorado, also licensed in the state of Oregon. I am representing myself in the community at this time. I spend a lot of time working with the LGBTQ population. I started out working as a child sexual abuse victim advocate, worked as a queer child sexual abuse survivor clinician, and then I have moved into working with adults who experience sexual assault at the hands of being queer and through conversion therapy. I'm also a survivor of conversion therapy at the hands of faith. I won't be talking about that, but that is an important part of my identity that I think plays a role today. We've heard about conversion therapy. We know the statistics. We know how, we know the data. What I want to talk about is the impact that I hear every single day in the clients that I work with, the impact it's had on their life, which has been long-term trauma, long-term post-traumatic stress, long-term medication use, long-term financial turmoil in their life to deal with the amount of therapy and medication and relational distress. Talk about divorce and dealing with court cases against their abusers and all of these things that are interconnected and intertwined that they never get to get rid of. They carry this for the rest of their life, non-consensually. Things were done to them and said to them that they now have to carry with them. Colorado's 2019 ban on conversion therapy for minors was an important step, and now we have to take more steps to keep people accountable with extra layers and with reparations for the people that were harmed the most, because statistically, most people don't disclose abuse for five years and those that do are rare and the majority of people outside of that statistic report after 20 years. That's the data and that's what we need to remember. Thank you. We'll now hear from Don Fritz. You'll have two minutes to state any organization you represent. You may begin. Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to advocate for our children and youth. My name is Dawn Fritz and I'm Colorado PTA's Director of Legislative Engagement I proud to represent our nation oldest and largest child advocacy association Colorado PTA supports House Bill 1322 Decades of research and the clear consensus of major medical and mental health organizations demonstrate that conversion therapy practices are harmful, particularly for young people. PTA has formally condemned conversion therapy as ineffective and dangerous due to well-documented adverse health impacts, including depression, anxiety, and suicidality. We supported House Bill 19-1129's prohibition on conversion therapy for minors, and we support House Bill 26-1322 because we know that children cannot learn, grow, or reach their full potential when they are experiencing trauma, shame, or fear. From a family perspective, that matters. Families want systems that are responsive, fair, and grounded in real experiences. They want to know when harm occurs, especially harm connected to licensed professionals. there is a pathway that allows for accountability and healing. At its core, this bill is about dignity, accountability, and access to justice. It reflects an understanding that children and youth deserve to be protected, not only in the moment, but also in how our systems respond when harm has occurred. Every child deserves to grow up in environments where they are safe, supported, and affirmed for who they are. Through accountability, House Bill 2613-12 helps ensure that those standards are met. And when they are not met, it provides families with recourse. Thank you for your time and thoughtful consideration of PTA's position. Thank you. Okay, we'll now hear from Jackie Stanton. You will have two minutes. State in the organization you represent. You may begin. Thank you very much, Chairman, and the rest of the committee. Good afternoon. My name is Dr. Jacqueline Stanton. I'm a licensed clinical social worker here in the Denver Metropolitan Community and a representative for the Interfaith Alliance of Colorado, which is an organization that has over 400 congregants and two dozen diverse spiritual backgrounds. I have over 40 years of clinical experience providing a breadth of community-based, culturally congruent behavioral health services, and I'm here today to urge you to support House Bill 26-13-22 to ensure that conversion therapy survivors can seek civil liberty. It's important to note that licensed clinicians in Colorado, by virtue of their professional standards, cannot engage in conversion therapy. If they do, they are then subject to the decisions and sanctions of the Department of Regulatory Agencies. And as such, licensed clinicians can be held civilly liable for any misconduct. I want to define what conversion therapy is, also known as reparative therapy, increasingly included within the term of sexual orientation change efforts. Defined according to the American Psychological Association, these are methods that are used to attempt to change the sexual orientation of LBGTQ individuals to heterosexuality. And this includes but does not exclude aversion therapy subjecting people to pain in response to their sexual desires. According to a study by the UCLA School of Law Williams Institute, an estimated 20,000 LBGBTQ youth will be subjected to conversion therapy. Practitioners of change efforts may employ techniques such as electric shock and biofeedback hypnosis. Underlying these techniques is an assumption that non-heterosexual, non-cisgender identities are mental disorders. This assumption is not based on medical or scientific fact. Professional consensus says that we should no longer do this So our position is please I urge you to support this bill and thank you very much for your time Thank you. Committee members, questions for this panel of witnesses? Rep Espinosa. Thank you. For the last witness who testified, I just want to, the only issue I have with putting this in law, because I think it's very important and critical, We know that over time studies and things can change and can be influenced by external societal pressures. Do you see any potential future harm if we were to codify today's knowledge and standard and scientific evidence that demonstrates all the truth that you've all spoken to in codifying what we're doing today? Thank you very much. Dr. Stanton. Thank you. Actually, we know that we have to keep up with changes in professional standards. But the bottom line is for this particular bill, anything that's going to cause harm for people is not something that's going to change overnight like that. And we know that that aversion therapy causes harm. Further questions? Okay. Seeing none. Thank you for your time and for your testimony. Okay, Christy Neely, Catherine Mosley, and then online, Missy Espinoza, Aaron Meshke, Nancy Eason, and Jeannie Rush. While we wait for our online witnesses to get added to the panel, we'll start in the room with Christy Neely. You will have two minutes. Stay in the organization you represent. You may begin. Hi. Thank you for hearing me today. My name is Christy Neely, and I'm up from Fort Collins. The problem with this bill is that it fails to draw a clear line between harmful practices from the past and something completely and entirely different. modern conversations around gender identity, especially when it comes to children. They're not the same. I want to be clear. I'm deeply compassionate towards those who struggle with their identity. These are real, awful, painful experiences, and they deserve care, respect, and thoughtful support. Many therapists today are simply trying to help young people work through these complex questions in a careful and ethical way. In some cases, that includes helping a child to be comfortable with their biological sex. That is not coercion. That is not abuse. It's counseling. Yet this bill would lump those therapists into the same category as those who engaged in harmful practices in the past. And this bill goes even further. It effectively requires therapists to remain neutral or affirm a gender identity. If a therapist holds the belief that biological sex is valid and they guide a child in that direction, they risk being seen as out of compliance with this law and opening themselves up to lawsuits. This is simply a bad bill. It opens up medical professionals in an area that we know we need more good, healthy therapists. It opens them up to unlimited lawsuits, even to the point to where the victim has passed away and now their child can sue without ever having been in the room without ever having any documentation or real information Okay. On top of that, it removes the statute of limitations. It allows lawsuits not only from the individual but even from their children, potentially after the patient has passed away. That creates open-ended liability based on claims that may be impossible to verify. The result will be a chilling effect. Therapists will avoid honest conversation, and families will have fewer places to turn for help. We should protect people from harm, but we should also protect fairness, professional judgment, and access to care. This bill doesn't strike that balance, so I respectfully ask you to vote no. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Okay, we'll hear from Catherine Mosley now. You will have two minutes to state any organization you represent. You may begin. Thank you. My name is Catherine Mosley, and I came to testify on the other bill, but thank goodness that I'm here for this one because this whole thing is a complete gaslight. Conversion therapy is transing your kids. That's the conversion. All the language is DARVO. You've got to be kidding me. This right here is my daughter's suicidal visit to a hospital. Guess when she was suicidal? Not at any point before they changed her name to conceal, conceal an attempt to take her life. Because I reported child sexual abuse, and that is what this is actually covering up. These play therapists, and I know I'm a certified teacher and I'm three years into clinical mental health counseling. They are alone with children Grooming them with no cameras And I am sorry for the people who were hurt by the church This has nothing to do with gay and lesbian Nothing It has to do with child psychological abuse Alone in a room with pedophilic people Helping to cover up and groom more victims They created a new field called play therapy This isn't even in the DSM-5 Have you taken diagnostics? I have. EMDR that they use to supposedly heal kids is brainwashing and coercing them behind closed doors. How would you ever prove what's happening when no one sees it, when a child that's seven, eight years old is being fed these lies during a divorce where child sexual assault is being reported of a pedophile? They are flocking to this field. This is child trafficking, covering up for pedophiles, and the children being trans are being manipulated by psychopaths. Period. Thank you. Time is up. Online, Aaron Mashke, you will have two minutes. State any organization you represent. You may begin.
Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Erin Meshke. I live in Boulder and represent myself. HB 26-13-22 takes mandatory affirmation to the next level and only provides protections in one direction. The legislature wants to acknowledge injury from people who will not affirm delusions and work to help people heal mental health and identity issues while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge those who have been irreparably harmed by gender transition treatments and surgeries. abuse should not exist But working to reconcile a child to their biology is not on its face abuse or conversion therapy. The blanket legal threat proposed in this bill is against almost everything I have heard in this committee for the last five sessions, including in the last few weeks. The bigger elephant that needs to be addressed is that gender transition is a form of conversion therapy. By telling a feminine boy or a masculine girl who is very often same sex attracted that they need to change their sex or gender is the ultimate homophobia. By telling a parent their confused child must convert to stay alive, transgender ideology is promoting conversion therapy, but there are no protections for detransitioners in HB 26-13-22, and recent attempts for those protections have been killed. Child abuse and sexual abuse are already covered under Colorado statute, some of which already have no statute of limitations. However, HB 26-13-22 is based on a false premise and is a hypocritical precedent, so I ask for your no vote. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay, Missy Espinoza, you will have two minutes. State any organization you represent. You may begin.
Missy Espinoza, representing myself. I'm speaking on this bill because I spoke on another bill that had one single function, quote, whether individuals who receive certain medical interventions as minors should still have meaningful access to the courts once they reach adulthood, end quote. um that bill had a limit and you guys killed it this bill is unlimited in every way and anyone can catch a stray like there I don't see limits here the only limit that I see is that a mental health professional can only affirm nothing else there is no other option so um i just feel for the detransitioners that needed a remedy if malpractice um and harm occurred and they didn't get their chance this this assembly killed that build you just that said no um i think it's very obvious that you have favorites when it comes to survivors and as As far as the sponsor's answer to Rep. Kelty, that was very creative. No wonder the people of Colorado don't trust you guys. Thank you.
Nancy Eason, you will have two minutes state in the organization you represent. You may begin.
Thank you, Chair. My name is Nancy Eason. I represent myself, and I am opposed to this bill, even though I do have a lot of compassion for people who are struggling with these issues. But I have issues, technical issues with this bill. Number one, conversion therapy has been banned in our state since 2019. So the question I have is, anyone who practiced conversion therapy before that time, are they still liable? The state had not declared that it was a wrong practice, and it seems unfair to hold them to that standard before the law was passed in 2019. The definition of conversion therapy in that bill is different than the definition in this bill. And in fact, the phrase conversion therapy only appears once in this bill. It in the title but it never appears in the body of the bill I wondering what that about why it was written that way I also am concerned that there no allowance if a client had asked for conversion therapy I'm not talking about a minor necessarily, but they may have wanted it at the time. And so the therapist went ahead and tried to accommodate that. Can they still be sued? Line seven on page seven uses the word hired a person who negligently hired or retained a licensed medical health professional who engaged in this will be liable as well and the question i have there is could it actually be a parent you know a parent might have hired a private counselor um the counselor may not be working for anyone so i i think that's confusing um and also the word supervised um could this refer to a licensed counselor at a religious institution who's supervising volunteer lay counselors? They're not actually paid. I think that's vague and difficult. Page eight, lines three through seven, talk about the defendant having to defend themselves. It sounds like they're guilty until proven innocent. And the whole language around how this prosecution happens is confusing and vague. So again, so many people are struggling with their mental health. We don't want to do things to discourage people from going into that profession. We need this bill. We might need it
on some level, but... Miss Isenira, over your time. Please wrap up. Just, I would ask you to vote no on this bill. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Jeannie Rush, you'll have two minutes to state any
organization you represent you may begin um can you hear me we can all right i'm going to read you something real quick the supreme court has affirmed that parents can opt their children out of ideological instruction on gender and sexuality schools were moving to punish families for exercising that right are they do parents not the state direct the upbringing of their children or they should. You denied trans covering for botched surgeries in the other bill and denied all kinds of other protections for children. But yet you have created this bill, which I actually misunderstood and started writing on when I realized right now that the American College of Pediatricians and a whole lot of other medical organizations and physicians have come out against all of this, whether it's transitioning a youth, whether it's not transitioning a youth, which you are calling convergent. The problem is you're putting this in the schools. The small amount of LGBTQ whatever gets flags instead of the American flag in our classrooms, and the counselors can only counsel gender. How is any of that rational or fair? I welcome every lawsuit that Colorado and every counselor gets that is only counseling children one way because 80 90 no 90 to 95 percent of children in puberty come out of it fine until someone messes with them and most of these children are harmed artistic uh raped molested and then they're prey for this i had that happen to one of my grandkids and they're trans someone that was already harmed all of this is criminal this bill and everything you're doing in this body to children, you all should be sued personally and as a body. This can't go on. This is horrible, egregious criminal against God and humanity. And I object on every level of my human being Thank you Committee members questions for this panel of witnesses
Rep Flannell.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This question is for anyone who would like to answer. I'm curious about the, basically the statute of limitations. So I would say this bill, if passed, exposes providers from lawsuits based on the treatment that may have occurred, I mean, decades earlier. And one could argue that, you know, maybe somebody's memories or their, you know, their recounts of something that happened might be weaker. Does anybody care to, you know, touch upon that or talk about any of the statute of limitations.
I'd like to say personally that that's dangerous.
Hang on, hang on, hang on. We need to have one person speaking at a time. Who is chiming in online? Okay, I think Ms. Eason and I do see Ms. Rush. Ms. Eason, are you chiming in there?
Or no?
Oh, it was Ms. Espinoza. Go ahead.
who do you want to speak me first and then miss i first missy espineza and then you miss rush okay thank you i mean it just looking at that and what you just said obviously um in court cases i know that that we're talking civil here but memory is still something that like you said could fade away um could be distorted especially by emotion especially by time especially by i don't know others input um and so what we're talking about here with no limits at all like there's no limits here is this is reckless legislation is what it is miss rush you know
in all the stuff we studied in the last six years, one of the resounding things that came through was the mental harm that the young people were exposed to when they went to professionals. And some of the professionals were also LGBTQ or trans or whatever. And so they have a leaning, if you will. And I'm not condemning them, whether they're gay or straight. You know, that that isn't the issue. You do have to separate gay and straight from transition and gender transition, because some people are gay and keep, you know, their body as they are. And they have a whole different world of therapy that they go into. Whereas people who go into the transition world of changing their gender are going to have a whole different need and venue for psychological help. And you've got this bill so convoluted that the wrong people are going to be attacked and the right people are going to run away and the children or the young people are going to suffer because this is so nebulous and wrong. Because if you're going to protect one group from mental therapy, why are you not also protecting the detransitioners, which they're not being protected or any of the other categories of children. And I'm telling you that this is going to create lawsuits to blow up everything. And the problem is in the schools where these people have access to children behind parents backs So they already working on their mental world while a real neutral counselor doesn have access And maybe we should remove the counseling out of the schools and the whole LGBTQ and trans world. Maybe all of that should come out of the school other than we already tolerate each other no matter what we are. We didn't need all of this to tell us to be kind to someone that identifies different. But the schools are literally grooming with books, with medicine, with chemicals. We've got it all wrong. So if you're going to allow lawsuits, boy, they're going to have to be broad or forget it and let the law that already exists handle it. But I expect a lot of the bills that you've passed will be sued and confronted legally because there are lawsuits all over the world now and people are winning against all of this. So I think even the executive orders already have banned all these things you're discussing. And I'm not unsympathetic to someone who has been harmed mentally by someone that's a malpractitioner. practitioner. I do think that's an issue, but this bill doesn't address the realities that are happening. Okay. And I think Ms. Mosley, did you want to chime in too? Yes. I want to ground people
in the reality that when a child is sexually assaulted, I'm talking under the age of eight, when identity is forming between zero and seven, it shuts off a cognitive part of their brain. And that memory is shut off to help them survive. Otherwise, they would be lying on the ground in the fetal position in shock for hours or days or weeks. And that the body knows that's not possible. okay because you can also die of being in shock that long so that suppresses the memory it usually comes out on an average of 20 years later people remember child sexual assault okay we're talking people in their 30s and 40s if they have already been psychologically abused using high control group tactics which that's also what is being performed here by generations of people who think this is normal because they're the ones who become the therapist. They're the ones who become those types of therapists that are repeating the trauma cycle of child sexual assault by acting out child sexual assault and grooming and keeping secrets and not knowing boundaries. Just because they use the language doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. You're not going to hear from these kids and for 20 some years because most of them are actually sexually abused and these emdr is being used to coerce and groom them behind closed doors they haven't even gone through puberty yet by the time they go through all of this it is such a mind's wanting to kill herself okay and this is an act a tool being used by someone who's assaulted her this is not a child who was confused about transgender raised in a strict christian household at all that has nothing to do with our story but you need to understand the response of the brain how it suppresses memory so that you can survive and not be in shock that's what happens to the children and why they can't remember things. And then
Is it even safe to remember?
You know what they're going to do to you. And if you talk about it, they'll kill you. Let's get real about what this is really about. It's not about gay and lesbian kids that are 15 years old.
Ms. Maschke.
Thank you, Chair. I just really quickly wanted to address the way that I read this bill. there is a very strong guilty until proven innocent stance. And so if we are going to come at people who have, I mean, it's literally the three groups that I see, it's all of the licensed counselors, it's the company who employed them, and even down to the parents who hired them. I don't think there's any way around saying that parents won't be prosecuted under this if this is allowed to go through. And so the ability for people to have records to be able to defend themselves against this guilty until proven innocent stance, I think that's going to be really difficult. And if we're going to allow people to seek some kind of justice or restitution
for something like a conversion therapy that was committed against them, I think that we have to also make some kind of concessions for people who will not be able to defend themselves against this kind of charge. Okay, further questions? Okay, seeing none, thank you for your time and for your testimony. Is there anyone else in the room or online who wishes to testify in opposition to House Bill 1322? Please come forward. Okay, state your name, any organization you represent. You will have two minutes.
Thank you, Chair and members of the committee. My name is Colleen Enos, and I represent Christian Home Educators of Colorado. We support home discipleship that is Christ-centered, parent-directed, and free from government control. We would urge a no vote on HB 26-13-22. licensed mental health providers with sincerely held religious beliefs who offer counseling to individuals according to those beliefs are punished by this bill. And that is the point of this bill, to punish those who disagree and to monitor therapist speech. There is currently a case Charles v. Salazar before the U.S. Supreme Court, a Christian counselor is suing Colorado for its current counseling censorship law. We are awaiting the decision as oral arguments have taken place. Colorado already has a counseling censorship law that only permits counselors to have conversations with children that affirm the state's view of gender identity and which serve gender affirmation Anyone who commits suicide is in fact a tragedy Painful interactions with faith do not justify making conversations illegal Disagreement is not a criminal offense This bill is a violation of the First Amendment, free speech and religious rights. It is blatantly unconstitutional. Vote no on HB 26-13-22. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. Thank you. Committee members, questions for our witness? Rep Kelty.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for coming today. I do have a question as I'm listening. So the therapies that you are giving, you know, based on your religious beliefs and that stuff, it's already banned for conversion therapy, as they call it, or therapy, gender therapy, for children. for children. So where you are, are these adults that are coming in, are they being forced to come in? What would be the reason that you see with your people that why they're seeking you out,
if you could say? Thank you. In my view, parents for children or adults later on are seeking out specifically religious-based counseling, Christian counseling. And that is why Charles v. Salazar is in the Supreme Court right now, because Colorado does have this censorship law for Christian counselors. So that's why they're going. So to say that, like, decades later, with no statute of limitations, people will just wake up and say, I feel bad, and I feel like it's because of this, and so now I'm going to sue. That is so dangerous. I don't think we would take this stance with anything else. No statute of limitations, and we're just going to bring it to court, I guess, which is why it's before SCOTUS right now.
Rob Kelty. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And then for the individuals that are coming in there, I mean, are they majority, I guess you can't say all, but the majority of them, are they, you know, some are depressed and they would like to seek guidance or are they feeling just different emotional moods that are not pleasant? I guess you could say depression is one of them. Do you see that that is really part of the reason why they're seeking therapy to begin with?
I think we have a mental health. I'm so sorry. No, no, it's okay. I think we have a mental health crisis in this country. And so there are many people, children and adults alike, that are seeking counseling, specifically religious counseling, because they are experiencing depression, because they're going through these things. So to make that, to take that, I guess, class of therapists out so that you can't approach them, so people can't talk to them freely, I just don't understand. because that is what they're going... I mean, we do have a mental health crisis in this country, and people need to talk. Adults need to talk. Kids need to talk. And they don't need to be censored in those conversations. They need to have honest, forthright conversations. Rob Kelty.
Thank you very much for that So basically what you saying is that these are grown adults that come in on their own fruition They not being forced to seek out from they can go to any therapist they want And they choose to go to your therapists that have religious base because they are as well. So no one's being forced to do anything. Do you feel that it's fair than, say, someone comes and because they're depressed, they're sad, they want guidance. guidance, is it fair then 10 years down the road to say that therapist is the reason for my depression when their original reason for going to a therapist because they were depressed to begin with? Do you feel that's fair? No. How could that be fair? I'm so sorry. All good. I keep
waiting. I should wait. No, it's not fair. Why should they be second guessing the conversations they're having with a hurting person in front of them who wants to talk, wants counseling, has sought out their counsel, and they have to be concerned about, I mean, in the bill, it even says the estate can sue, right? So that person could pass away, and then whoever's in charge of the estate sues. This makes no sense to me. So no, it quashes free conversations. It quashes religious freedoms and rights. and just your ability to have those honest conversations. It makes no sense to me. Rob Kelty.
Thank you, Sharon. It's my last question, I promise. And so when you mentioned that the estate can sue, so is that basically saying that without the individual, they're depressed, therapy's not worked, they kill themselves, then the family can then say, oh, well, we think, not sure or not, that you must have talked about them being gay or wanting to transition or whatever it was, that they can sue the doctor or the therapist because they think that's why they killed themselves or they, I'm not sure how to form the question, but you know what I mean? Like they're saying, oh, we think that's why they did it. So we're going to now come after you and sue you because we're hurting because they did what they did, but now we need someone to blame and it's going to be you.
Ms. Inos. Yeah, I'm not sure what the standards of evidence are in the bill for a suit like this after that person has passed away. But I do agree that the assumption in the bill is guilty until proven innocent, which flies in the face of American jurisprudence, right, on its face. So if you're coming from the place that you're assuming they're guilty when the accusation is made, then, I mean, I just, I don't know what standard of evidence is required to bring that kind of a charge. It seems just, I don't know, ridiculous. Not based on actual legal standards here in the United States. Okay, further questions?
All right, seeing none, thank you for your time. Okay, Kathy Eppersberger, Bruce Parker, Rick Ginsberg, and Annie Martinez, Z. Williams. Thank you Okay we start in the room with Zee Williams You'll have two minutes.
State any organization you represent. You may begin. Good evening, committee. It's a little lonely up here all by myself, but good to see my colleagues on the screen. My name is Zee Williams. I'm the co-director and co-founder of Bread and Rose's Legal Center. and my generation is haunted by the specter of conversion therapy. When I was in college, one of my dear friends, Zed, would attempt to kill himself every few days, sometimes every few weeks, and we would get calls from the hospital. He was on a mental health hold. It took years and years of searching for the correct therapist for Zed to realize that the treatment that his family had previously tried to put him through that included things like long periods of confinement at the age of 10 years old, a version where he was shown pictures that he was supposed to be sexually attracted to and then exposed to painful stimuli, being administered hormone replacement therapy against his will to force him to comply with the sex he was assigned at birth, and being berated by his trusted faith leader contributed significantly to his mental health. This story impacts me a great deal, and so does my work navigating the legal system with our community members who have been wronged by systems that they have trusted. I think it's important to remember that civil actions, including the ones named in this bill, still require things like standing and evidence, that people sue each other all of the time, and we have stop gaps and safety measures in our court system that throw out frivolous lawsuits or that prevent lawsuits that do not have substantial evidence from proceeding. It takes extensive time and vulnerability to be a plaintiff and a civil action. And even if you do go through all of that and expose yourself to the level of scrutiny that many people have to endure in court, the resolution is not perfect or complete to address the pain that is endured by people who have experienced conversion therapy. And so with that, I ask you to support this bill. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay. Online, we'll hear from Bruce Parker. You will have two minutes. Stay in the organization you represent, you may begin. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for your
time today. My name is Bruce Parker and I'm the Executive Director of Rocky Mountain Equality, a community organization that provides programs, services, and advocacy for LGBTQ plus people across Colorado. I'm here today to ask you to vote yes for HB 26-13-22. I'm also a 45-year-old gay man, so I'm old enough to remember when all of these attacks on trans people were targeting gay men and lesbians. I grew up with the same accusations being thrown at people like me, and it was dangerous then, and it's dangerous now. I grew up in Pikeville, Kentucky. In high school, my family got worried that I was depressed and took me to a local therapist. In the first 20 minutes of the session with the therapist, he explained to me that I was struggling with loneliness because I believed I was gay. He quoted Bible verses to support his perspective. I'm grateful that I was comfortable enough with who I was and with my experience attending church that he was not able to impact how I understood myself or my relationship with faith. I was lucky. He did cause me to not seek out other counseling support for three years. Conversion therapy is deadly for LGBTQ plus youth. The qualitative and quantitative data is clear. This bill is a well-crafted tool to help prevent the practice and to empower those who are subject to the practice to seek justice. Erage a yes vote on SB 1322 because it is a good and compassionate policy. Thank you to Representative McCormick and Representative Valdez for bringing this legislation. For it's worth I've lived in six states and representative McCormick is one of the elected officials that I have trusted the most I also want to thank one Colorado for their leadership on this legislation please vote yes thank you
okay we will now hear from Annie Martinez you love two minutes state in the organization you represent you may begin thank you members of the committee
and chairs for the opportunity to testify this evening. My name is Annie Martinez. I'm an attorney and hold a doctorate in public policy and administration. And I'm here on behalf of the Colorado Center on Law and Policy, the anti-poverty organization Advancing the Rights of Every Coloradan here in support of HB 1322. This bill is important because trauma does not always reveal itself on a predictable timeline and survivors of convergent therapy should have access to the courts, to justice and to accountability. This bill would allow claims for folks who are injured by sexual orientation or gender identity change efforts to be brought without a statute of limitations bar, cutting them off before survivors are ready or able to come forward. This bill is especially important at this time because Colorado's underlying ban on conversion therapy for minors is currently before the Supreme Court in the case Childs v. Salazar with an opinion coming down this term. If the court narrows or overturns state's ability to regulate this practice, the need for survivors to have meaningful civil remedies become even more urgent. This bill is measured. It's focused on licensed mental health professionals and those who employ, supervise, or negligently enable them. It doesn't eliminate the need to prove harm and actually cause out the type of expert testimony needed to go forward in these types of proceedings. As introduced, the bill states that the conversion therapy survivor's civil claim may be commenced at any time without limitation. However, it does have a section narrowing how that would work for older claims. Injuries that accrue before the bill taking effect only apply if the claim was not already time barred under prior law as of July 1st, 2026. So it does not fully reopen every claim from the past. Rather, it ensures that survivors whose claims are legally viable on July 1st, 2026 and survivors harm going forward are not cut off by an arbitrary deadline that fails to account for a delayed recognition of trauma. With respects to the impact on the judiciary, the state's fiscal note projects only a minimal impact on cohort workload specifically pointing to the relatively small number of conversion therapy cases and the high evidentiary burden required to prove them this is not opening the floodgates it is a targeted remedy but a real one for a limited group of survivors survivors of conversion therapy deserve a meaningful path to justice and i urge to vote yes on this bill thank you thank you
okay well now here from uh rick ginsburg you'll have two minutes state in the organization you
you represent, you may begin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My name is Dr. Rick Ginsburg, and today I'm speaking in strong support of Colorado House Bill 1322 on behalf of the Colorado Psychological Association, known as CPA. It's the largest professional organization of psychologists in the state. I've been a licensed psychologist in Colorado since 2002 and have been in private practice for 24 years providing psychotherapy to a wide range of clients, including many from the LGBTQ plus community. I'm also the former director of wellness at the University of Denver and a past president of CPA. This bill offers a critical tool to people who have been psychologically harmed by conversion therapy to get the justice, healing, and peace they so greatly deserve. Seeking mental health treatment and going to therapy is hard It takes guts And for people from historically oppressed communities such as the LGBTQ plus community it can take 10 times that courage And when doing so a client puts faith and trust in licensed practitioners to help them ethically accurately and with compassion A client stepping into a therapy room is by nature vulnerable to the process. Sadly, sometimes that process can go wrong and clients are hurt. We don't always know why or how this happens. With conversion so-called therapy, we know exactly why this has and can happen for those who identify as being LGBTQ plus or are questioning their sexual orientation. It is because conversion therapy has been proven by research to be deleterious and pernicious. It damages and does not help. The psychological harm by conversion therapy can be profound, long-lasting, and delayed. Due to confusion, depression, and anxiety caused by such interventions, social stigma, and the power therapists have on clients and in society, it can take time for these difficulties to come to a client's awareness. It often takes longer for a client to trust yet another clinician with this issue, let alone address it in a legal or administrative setting to seek damages, justice, and access healing. Members of the committee, you must give clients that time. Time to recover, to heal, to access resources and seek justice. HB 1322 gives clients that time. CPA, representing hundreds of licensed psychologists in Colorado and thousands and thousands of clients they serve, strongly request that you support this bill. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay, Kathy Ebersberger, you will have two minutes to state in the organization you represent. You may begin.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My name is Kathy Ebersberger, and I'm speaking on behalf of the League of Women Voters of Colorado and our 2,400 members. We urge you to vote yes on House Bill 1322. The League is committed to equal rights, social justice, and access to quality health care for all Coloradans, especially for LGBTQ plus individuals and other vulnerable communities. Conversion therapy has been widely discredited for decades by major medical and mental health organizations. We now know that it does not work, and more importantly, that it causes serious harm. Survivors often experience depression, shame, social isolation, substance abuse, and increased risk of suicide.
Many struggle for years with trust and intimacy. Just as damaging is the loss of time, years spent trying to change something that was never a disorder in the first place. Licensed mental health professionals are bound by a basic ethical principle, do no harm. When practitioners provide conversion therapy, they are offering care that falls below accepted professional standards. Colorado has a responsibility to ensure that its residents receive safe, evidence-based care. This bill provides accountability through a reasonable civil remedy for those who have been harmed. It's important to recognize that, like survivors of sexual assault, many individuals do not fully understand the source of their trauma until years or even decades later. If their claims are time barred before they can even make that connection, we are denying them justice. House Bill 1322 acknowledges this reality and ensures that survivors have a meaningful opportunity to seek accountability when they are ready. We urge you to vote yes on House Bill 1322. Thank you for your time and consideration Thank you Committee members questions for this panel of witnesses Okay Seeing none, thank you for your time and for your testimony. All right, online, Gwen Bonella, Anastasia Cole. In person, Cheryl Kelly Varosas. Dalton Valette. And Dalton should be online. All right. We'll start in the room with Cheryl Calivarosis. You will have two minutes. State in the organization you represent. You may begin. Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the House. Judiciary Committee. My name is Cheryl Calivrusis, a Colorado resident and a volunteer lobbyist for American Atheists. On behalf of its over 1,500 constituents in Colorado, we urge you to vote yes on HB 1322. As a national civil rights organization dedicated to the equality for atheists and non-religious people, we work to achieve religious equality for all Americans by protecting what Thomas Jefferson called the wall of separation between government and religion created by the First Amendment. Conversion therapy consists of practices which seek to change an individual's sexual orientation or gender identity or expression, sometimes performed by religious advisors or licensed mental health providers. These practices might be based on religious beliefs or on the false idea that being lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, or queer is a mental illness that needs to be cured. This is an idea that has been rejected by every major medical and mental health group for decades. The American atheists believe in the diversity of sexual and gender identities. that are normal variations of human identity and expression. American Atheist supports Colorado's current law, HB 19-1129, prohibiting conversion therapy for minors, but we realize these protections are being threatened. By enacting HB 1322, Colorado will provide a pathway for civil actions for many who experience harm from these illegitimate and fraudulent therapeutic practices. We urge you to vote yes on HB 26-13-22. Thank you for allowing me to testify. Thank you. Okay, online we'll go with Dalton Valletta. You will have two minutes. State in the organization you represent. You may begin. Thank you very much, members of the committee. My name is Dalton Ballette, and I'm speaking today in support of House Bill 26-1322. I have a legal background and currently serve as the treasurer of the Boulder County Democratic Party. I'm also a Colorado native and the chair of the Superior Historical Commission. And I bring this to the forefront because what this bill offers is a chance to address our state's history, our residents' history, and the opportunity to carve a path for a better future. When I was growing up Colorado was known as the hate state There was nationwide boycotts against the state after its adoption of Amendment 2 which barred city and state agencies from even offering protections for LGBTQ individuals Thankfully, Amendment 2 was overturned in 1996. Amendment 43, which defined marriage in our state constitution as being between a man and a woman, was then overturned in 2024. But today we stand at the brink not of forward momentum, but of backwards thinking. as the state's ban on conversion therapy risks being overturned by the Supreme Court. If we cannot rely on our nation's highest court to protect the rights and liberties of all citizens, it is up to us as a state to ensure every defense at our disposal for Coloradans. The historical context showcases what makes this bill so necessary today. As a gay man who thankfully did not experience conversion therapy, but who did endure bullying and violence growing up here, it is essential we offer this legal option to those who have for too long been unable to make peace with their own paths. Our state's history is oftentimes uncomfortable. If all of history filled oneself with a sense of pride, I would say they aren't reading the whole history. This is not just a responsibility to address the harm by those who have undergone the horror and abuses of conversion therapy, but to better the lives of all Coloradans. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Okay, we'll now hear from Anastasia Cole. You'll have two minutes. State in the organization you represent, you may begin. Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. I'm Anastasia Cole, and I'm the Policy and Outreach Manager at the Colorado Coalition Against Sexual Assault, or CECASA, and I'm here today representing CECASA in strong support of House Bill 1322. Over the last two decades, CECASA has led efforts to eliminate the civil statute of limitations for sexual violence, recognizing that survivors often take years, if not decades, to process the harm that they've experienced. For example, the average age of disclosure of child sexual abuse is 52 years old, and one-third of survivors never come forward. Delayed disclosure is common due to shame, fear of being blamed or not being believed, not fully understanding what happened to them at the time, or fear of retaliation or exile from family, faith leaders, or other community members. The Colorado General Assembly recognized the reality of delayed disclosure and the need to remove arbitrary barriers to justice in 2021 with the passage of Senate Bill 73 and Senate Bill 88, which removed the civil statute of limitations for sexual misconduct and childhood sexual abuse, respectively. At its core, House Bill 1322 seeks to address these same concerns. It recognizes the deep arm caused by conversion therapy, which has been widely discredited and seeks to increase access to justice and healing. Much like survivors of sexual violence, survivors of conversion therapy often take decades to truly understand the impact of the trauma they've experienced and to feel safe enough to come forward. They also experience high rates of depression, anxiety, suicidality, PTSD, and substance use. Given these direct parallels, it's important that our state statutes reflect the severity of the harm caused and increase access to avenues of accountability. Disclosure is a personal journey. Like survivors of sexual violence, survivors of conversion therapy deserve the time to come forward when they are ready, regardless of how much time has passed. House Bill 1322 not only supports survivors, but also supports sexual violence prevention. When we challenge harmful practices that seek to control and suppress identity, expression, and bodily autonomy and seek accountability for harm that's been We are really working upstream to dismantle the same systems and conditions that promote and enable sexual violence and other forms of abuse. For these reasons, CCASA strongly supports House Bill 1322 and urges a yes vote from the committee. Thank you for your time today. I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Okay, and Gwen Bonilla, you will have two minutes to state in the organization you represent. You may begin. Good afternoon. My name is Gwen Bonilla. I use she, her pronouns, and I am the clinic director at Denver Family Institute. Denver Family Institute provides training for student therapists and family and intimate partner therapy. And our student therapists also run a low-cost clinic for folks who need mental health support across the state of Colorado. And I'm here to express my strong support for House Bill 1322. In my role as clinic director at DFI, I have the privilege of seeing the wide range of needs that come to us from our clients and the families that seek support from us. I have seen firsthand how deeply identity-related harm can affect not only an individual, but entire family systems. Some clients who come to us after experiencing environments where their autonomy and identity were invalidated or controlled, they're experiencing long-term and significant impacts. And those impacts are not just on the client, but on the people with whom they're in relationship. Harm occurs when power differentials are misused, especially in therapeutic relationships where vulnerability is encouraged and trust is expected. Conversion therapy is a misuse of power. And the thing about trauma is that it's nonlinear. People don't always experience harm, recognize harm, and then seek justice in an orderly or expedient manner. The harm is often not immediately recognized, and many individuals only begin to understand what happened to them or the impact of it many years later. I am also the ethics instructor at DFI. I teach our students that our field is grounded in the principles of autonomy, beneficence, and non-maleficence, to do no harm. Conversion therapy stands in direct opposition to these ethical standards, and it is a matter of ethics that we provide people who have been harmed with a path towards justice that doesn't have gates or a stop after only two years. I strongly encourage you to vote yes on this bill. Okay, committee members, questions for this panel of witnesses? Reb Kelty. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think this question is for Mr. Villette, I think is how you say that. Mr. Villette, in Senate Bill 21073, the legislature abolished the statute of limitations for future child sex abuse claims. Do you believe, with your background, do you believe, does this bill abolish only future claims, or is there a retroactive element here? Mr. Valletta. Yes, thank you very much, Chairman. Not to my knowledge, and I'm personally unfamiliar with the actual text of the language of the bill that you're referring to and referenced from the past. The greatest opportunity that this bill has today is really offering individuals who have undergone conversion therapy a way to remedy it usually years after the fact when they have recognized and come to terms with some of the trauma that they have inflicted. Right now, with the statute of limitations that bars these individuals from these opportunities moving forward, this would actually give victims of conversion therapy the opportunity, the chance to actually move forward with any sort of legal claims that they would like to have brought forward. Further questions? Okay, seeing none, thank you for your time and for your testimony. Okay, Lee Brookings, Richard Burrito, Baroto, Richard Baroto. Jax Gonzalez, Ezra Wade, and Danny Marston. Yeah, maybe signed up as Danny Bowman. Okay, we'll start with our witnesses in the room. uh lee brookens uh you will have two minutes state in the organization you represent you may begin thank you chairman and judiciary committee my name is lee brookens they them pronouns i'm speaking on behalf of my group mental health practice the umbrella collective i am also a licensed clinical social worker a world professional association for transgender Health, Standards of Care 8 certified member, and I'm a survivor of conversion therapy. I'm here in support of HB 26-13-22 because access to justice matters and the unique ways that current licensed providers practicing conversion therapy psychologically harm clients. I was only six when my mom, I told her I wanted to die. And I was in the care of a trusted licensed psychoanalyst practicing conversion therapy three times a week for over four years. I was only eight when he diagnosed me with gender identity disorder. And I was never engaged in this conversation with my therapist or my parents until I was 25 and I initiated it. I found this letter that they kept a termination summary of my treatment where I discovered he states that my treatment resulted in a renegotiation of my role as an early adolescent girl, including appropriate interest in boys. This is the only proof I have that the whole treatment conflates my gender identity with a future potential sexuality. at 25 I gave up the mask I allowed my queer non-binary identities to thrive I couldn't have been happier but at the same time that was just the beginning of my healing it took me almost 20 years to discover that that was not me renegotiating my gender it was me learning to repress my true self I learned to mask and negate my internal truth I look outside for answers and a resulting trauma response of fawning and questioning myself ensue. These are whole person developmental impacts that cross over into every aspect of my life As a licensed therapist who queer and trans I see the harm that conversion therapy survivors like myself experience every day They need an expanded time frame to access justice resources. The whole nature of the harm is developmental trauma in the context of a relationship with a trusted licensed provider, especially for children. And so let's protect the survivors of conversion therapy today who need more time, in my case decades, to disentangle the psychological harm and heal as a strong empowered survivor, these lasting harmful impacts fueled me to become a mental health therapist to empower the voices and inner knowing of my clients to empower myself. Thank you so much for your time and hopefully please vote in favor of HB 261322. Thank you. Okay, Jax can tell us. You'll have two minutes. Stay in the organization you represent. You may begin. chair and members of the committee my name is jacks gonzalez and i'm the political director at one colorado i'm here in support of house bill 1322 you've heard from people today who experience conversion therapy counselors and therapists who treat survivors and people who have lost loved ones to suicide this bill is about making sure people who were harmed by conversion therapy have a fair opportunity to seek accountability from licensed mental health providers. To be clear, this bill does not regulate access to counseling. It does not prevent individuals from seeking counseling aligned with their beliefs. Additionally, this bill does not limit the actions of therapists providing appropriate evidence-based care. This bill only creates a civil path for accountability when a licensed provider causes harm. Conversion therapy is defined in the bill. Additionally, the bill includes a clear safe harbor for therapy that facilitates a patient's coping and social support and identity exploration and development. In my conversations with survivors and families around Colorado, I constantly hear how long it takes to understand and name the harm they experienced. Two years is not enough for survivors, and it is certainly not enough for families who lose a child to suicide. Finally, I want to briefly address the pending Supreme Court case, Childs v. Salazar. We expect a decision soon, and it's possible the court could overturn Colorado's existing ban on conversion therapy that was mentioned earlier. That case is about whether states can regulate conversion therapy, not whether it's safe. The medical consensus on harm has not changed. This bill is designed to stand independently of that case, using traditional civil liability framework to ensure accountability for licensed professionals who cause harm. At its core, this bill ensures that when harm occurs, people are not denied justice simply because it took time to understand. I urge you to vote yes. Thank you. Okay, turning to our online witnesses, Richard Baroto, you will have two minutes to state any organization you represent. You may begin. Thank you, and good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My name is Richard Baroto, and I am an HIV STI prevention specialist with Vibent Health, a nonprofit provider of HIV prevention and care, serving over 3,700 Coloradans. I am here today in support of House Bill 26-13-22. In my role, I work with the community partners to provide HIV testing and education, promote safer sexual health practices and create a space where individuals can speak openly about their sexual health needs and their concerns Through this work I frequently hear from individuals struggling with shame self and internal conflict related to their sexual orientation and gender identity Research consistently shows that convergent therapy practices are correlated with severe and long-lasting mental health consequences for survivors. These harms are often driven by deeply instilled feelings of shame, guilt, and internalized negative beliefs about one's identity that result from this discredited practice. These impacts extend beyond mental health and into the public health field. When individuals feel stigma or fear disclosure, they may be less likely to seek preventative care, engage in safer sexual health practices, or get tested for HIV and other STIs. In some cases, survivors are hesitant to be fully transparent with their healthcare providers or relationship partners. This makes it harder to refer those individuals to effective prevention measures and can lead to dangerous delays in diagnosis and treatment. In my professional experience, I have seen how these dynamics can contribute to HIV exposure, placing partners in preventable and distressing situations. This stands in direct opposition to my organization's mission of reducing HIV transmission and combating the HIV epidemic. This bill is an important step towards accountability and patient protection. It provides a pathway for those harmed to seek recourse and helps discourage practices that lack scientific validity and pose real risks to both mental and public health. I respectfully urge the committee to consider this evidence and the lived experiences of those affected and to support this legislation. Thank you for your time and your consideration. Thank you. Okay, Ezra Wade, you'll have two minutes to stay in the organization you represent. You may begin. We cannot hear you. You're muted. My apologies. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. My name is Ezra Wade. a licensed professional counselor and a nationally certified counselor. The views shared today are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of any licensing or credentialing board or any current or previous employers for which I may be affiliated. And I'm here today to show my support for HB 26-13-22. Conversion therapy, which is also known as reparative therapy, is designed to change or alter a person's sexual or gender identity through means of direct intervention. And it is not only ineffective, but also ethically and morally reprehensible. There are six ethical principles which belie the counseling profession. Autonomy, which means we believe in the inherent right of others to make their own decisions about their life. Beneficence, which means that we are always aiming to act in the best interest of the client. Non-maleficence, which means that we first do no harm. That is that we don't engage the client in treatment interventions known to be harmful. Justice means that we treat all clients fairly, equitably, and without prejudice, regardless of what personal biases that we may hold. Fidelity means we keep our promises and our commitments, and veracity means that we speak truthfully. And these ethical codes exist in part to protect clients from maltreatment. So-called conversion therapy violates each and every aforementioned ethical principle. There is an incredible sense of loss that comes from years of suppressing or repressing a person's sexual or gender identity, the cost of which is unquantifiable. The missed opportunities, the time lost, the limitations from time remaining, the community issued, the isolation, the years of self-doubt. A person may not fully realize this trauma years or even decades after the fact. Mental health counselors have a legal and ethical responsibility to practice following these ethical principles. When this is not the case, clients and families are harmed, and they should have recourse for seeking civil damages. I'm urging each of you to vote yes to HB 26, 13, 22. Thank you. Okay, Danny Bowman, you will have two minutes to stay in the organization you represent. You may begin. My name's Danny. I prefer they, them pronouns, and I grew up in Tulta. I'm representing myself. As a child in Delta, I would go to Representative Stoker's house with my grandmother while she cleaned his grandfather's house. I would play in his mom's playhouse. I loved growing up in Delta. I'm proud knowing that I was a part of that community. I grew up in a community of farmers, teachers, bankers, sharing their values. I grew up believing in God and family, just like every other person on the Western Slope. But I knew then that I was different. I knew I wanted to grow up and marry another girl. I knew if I expressed that thought, those feelings, that I would face some kind of therapy. Imagine at the age of eight or nine, being afraid of this thing, of conversion therapy, even not knowing or understanding what it was. I knew that it was meant to change my very being. I carried that fear through grade school, through junior high, through high school. I even married and hid that. I had children. I lived my life hating to look in the mirror because I knew I was living a lie. even when I came out my father still said that he could put me into a mental institute there where that fear was again this wasn't in some big city this was in little old Delta conversion therapy can harm someone I came out at the age of 38 and imagine that still 30 years of not knowing what damage was done. The LGBTQIA people deserve to be able to seek justice for the harm done. I urge you to please vote yes on this HB 261322. People need justice when harm is done. Thank you. Thank you. Committee members, do we have questions for this panel of witnesses? Okay. Seeing none, thank you for your time and your testimony. Is there anyone else in the room or online who wishes to testify on House Bill 1322? Okay. Seeing no one, the witness testimony phase is closed. Bill sponsors amendments. Rep Valdez, do you have any amendments? No amendments this evening. Committee members, do we have amendments? Seeing none the amendments phase is closed Bill sponsors wrap up Brett McCormick Thank you Mr Chair I want to thank everyone that showed up to testify today I apologize. I had to be in another committee, but I know it's important that we heard from everyone that did show up today. I just want to stress that we know these practices have been against the law here in Colorado for over six years now, and today's bill will provide a pathway for those that may have been harmed or would be harmed in the future, and to also let our licensed mental health professionals know that we mean for that practice to not come back here in our state. And as you've heard today, we know that this practice is unethical. It's cruel, it's harmful, and it's wrong. And those licensed mental health professionals know that because their own profession says that across the nation. So we hope that you will support today's bill. We'd appreciate your yes vote. Rob Beldes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, committee. I know it's been late night, so I'll keep it simple by saying that by voting yes tonight, we're taking a step in reaffirming what we already agree as a state, that this isn't therapy. There is no converting, and there is no necessity. I think I want to also thank the witnesses that came out tonight to testify in favor of the bill. And I think the one thing that really shone through was the head of the Psychiatric Association who said that, you know, if you're a licensed provider, you're providing this year. You're going against what we're supposed to be doing as medical providers. So we thank you for listening tonight. We thank you for those who came and told their stories. And we thank you tonight for your yes vote and affirmation that we will continue to keep this practice away from those who call Colorado home. Thank you. Okay. Vice Chair Carter, our proper motion is to the Committee of the Whole. I move HB 2613-22 to the Committee of the Whole with a favorable recommendation. All right. That's a proper motion. Seconded by Rep. Okay. Committee members, do we have closing comments? Okay. I will just echo Rep Valdez and Rep McCormick in thanking people for coming out and sharing their stories and advocating for their community. I'm an enthusiastic yes. Ms. Shipley, please call the roll. Representatives Bacon. Yes. Clifford. Yes. Espinosa. Yes. Flannell. No. Garcia. Yes. Kelty. No. Law. Rep's Law, if you're trying to vote, you're muted. Excused. Soper. Excused. It's okay. Yes. Carter. Yes. Mr. Chair. Yes. Okay. On a vote of 7-2, House Bill 1322 passes. You're on the way to the committee of the hall. Okay Okay Got it Okay All right We going to move on to Senate Bill 18 I will say Rep. Froelich is voting in THLG where she is the chair, and then she will be over. So it might be about five minutes before we get started. Before we get started, I do want to be clear that Senate Bill 18 now is only about a name change. Anything having to do with the best interest of the child, that is no longer in the bill. And testimony on that would not be testifying to the bill. And we'll get started when Rep. Froelich gets over here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Okay. All right, again, I do just want to reemphasize before we start testimony on this bill. There were previous, there was previous language in this bill that had to do with parental rights. That is no longer in the legislation. This bill now is about concealment of name changes. If we could please keep our testimony to what is actually in the bill. And like the last bill, I'll limit testimony to two minutes. We'll do 15-minute panels. And whoever would like to begin. Rob Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. It is an honor to be sitting here with all of you in this big room, and especially with my co-prime, Representative Froehlich, to present to you Senate Bill 18. This bill comes because of experiences in community where the privacy of minors has been violated when they change their names. This bill is also a very simple bill, and it's asking for one small change to protect the privacy of minors, And that is when a minor changes their name for any reason, whether it's gender transition, for religious reasons, indigenous naming ceremonies, family changes, adoption, that their information and their record is suppressed to protect their privacy. all of us here have at some point and often declare our commitment to protect children and this bill does that this bill protects children it protects their privacy it protects them from getting their information out in public where then people can use it to harass them and bully them. This bill is a children's protection bill, and I ask for an aye vote. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Judiciary and my awesome co-prime sponsor for the opportunity to present Senate Bill 18. As you know, this bill is now a three-page bill that allows minors to suppress the record of their legal name change. People change their names for a number of reasons. you will see many reasons celebrating name changes, adoption, wanting to conform with siblings when families become a blended Brady Bunch affair Name changes sometimes happen after religious conversion You will hear testimony today from youth about why they changed their names and from parents who understood their motivation and support their children To the extent that you will hear opposition, I imagine it will be focused on one group of youth, and we ask that you not stigmatize that group of youth any further. I propose that actually it is none of our business what the motivation for the name change is, nor is it for us to judge who is worthy of privacy when they make that decision. Youth deserve to change their names. This is a process where parents are and must be involved, and youth deserve to have that decision kept private. We ask for an aye vote. Committee members, questions for the bill sponsors. Oh, sorry Mr. Chair, we were, we just want to add that we were approached by the Department of Law hours or so before committee with a previously, with the amendment that was passed in the Senate being insufficient to address their concerns. This is a Senate bill in a House hearing where the Department of Law agreed in writing that the Senate amendment met their needs. And so it's just stressful to hear this last-minute concern. And I just want to address that before in case you hear that concern. but we do ask for an aye vote. Do we have questions for the sponsors? Representative Espinoza. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, sponsors. I just think that the bill looks great. I just want to ask the question, if a person wants to have their information of the name change addressed, can they? I know my own son at 14 years of age, his birthday present was to change his name legally. So just want to make sure that that's not precluded by the bill. Representative Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Representative Espinosa, for the question. Yes, no, this is, what this bill does is it automatically suppresses, it does not prevent a person who's wanting to change their name or the parents who are wanting to change their name from requesting it to be open. Representative Flannell. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So just since the bill has changed and I haven't had a chance to read it, just walk me through, if a child wants to change their name, walk me through what are the steps that they have to take in order to do so. Because I know that it takes out the petition process. It doesn't, you know, allow for the, I think in order to change your name, you have to, like, put out something in the newspaper, learning the public and all of that. So can you just kind of walk me through those steps? Representative Garcia. what I can say is the I can't necessarily walk you through the steps I believe that there's other people that can actually have gone through the process you can walk you through the steps what I will say is we are not actually changing the petition process of the name change we are saying that the the the first go-to when a name change is being occurring that it is then suppressed that means that a minor does not actually then have to publicize their name change in the paper that doesn't change the requirement for adults. It's strictly for minors. Representative Finnell. Any further questions for the sponsors? Seeing none, I will call the first panel. Erica Unger. Bruce Parker. Alicia Ferraro. Aaron Valnick. Zorian Willibanks. Dawn Fritz. Cheryl Calivaricious. And Tonya Allen. Okay. We can start on my right, your left. State your name. You will have two minutes. State your name and who you represent. Good evening, Chair and members of the committee. My name is Elsie Fierro. I'm the political and policy coordinator at One Colorado, and we are here in support of SB18. Every week we hear from families who are doing everything they can to keep their transgender child safe. A Colorado family shared their experience with us, and I want to make clear what the direct impact of this legislation will be. This family followed every step of the legal name change process for their transgender child. The judge was compassionate. Because of Jude's law, they did not have to publish notice in the newspaper. They believed their child was protected. Then they searched their child's name online. The court record had been scraped and posted publicly, including their child's dead name, birth date, parent's name and family home address, all labeled as public record. That family spent months trying to remove it and protect their minor child in an increasingly hostile political climate. This is the reality some families are navigating. At One Colorado, we believe families deserve privacy and stability and the freedom to support their child without fear. I'm testifying in a support position today because we believe this bill can help families, and we are proud to stand with families, proponents, and sponsors who brought forth this bill. Please vote yes on SB 18 and refer this bill to the House floor for a vote. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Please state your name, who you represent. You have two minutes. Good evening, members of the committee. My name is Erica Unger. I am the co-director and co-founder of Bread and Roses Legal Center. I've been an attorney licensed in Colorado for over a decade. I am here asking you to vote yes for the bill in front of you today. This bill aligns minor name change cases with how we treat the court records of children across the court system In my mind it much more of a technical fix than a substantive change And it stems from the fact that name changes are filed and initiated as a civil case And so because children do not have the legal capacity to file a civil case on their own behalf, it has to be filed under the parent's name, which defaults to a public record accessible for the child's date of birth, the child's dead name. and you'll hear many stories of the horrors that can come from that, regardless of the reason of the change. And children do get their name changed for many reasons. I did a sort of survey of some of the reasons across Colorado, and one of the most common was to correct a birth certificate. Those are handwritten, and the letters can be off, and you have to actually file the civil case to do that paternity testing, baptismal names, if they are a survivor of abuse and the name reflects their abuser or it's a name that their abuser knows them by. And my personal favorite was just that there was a parent who was parents who were changing their child's name to make it phonetic because it was too hard to pronounce and they didn't want their child to have to correct people for the rest of their lives. The current system already allows. There's not a way for a parent to surreptitiously change the name of their child without identifying, without notifying another parent. If there is an active custody case that must be filed within the custody case. If there's a dispute about that, I'm happy to answer further questions about the process. I have done many, many name changes and I'm happy to answer any questions the committee might have. Thank you, Ms. Unger. You can state your name, who you represent. You will also have two minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for this opportunity to advocate for our children and youth. My name is Dawn Fritz, and I'm still Colorado PTA's Director of Legislative Engagement. Our mission is to make every child's potential a reality by engaging and empowering families and communities to advocate for all children. Colorado PTA supports Senate Bill 18. PTA supports the passage of legislation, including the bill before us, that creates safe, inclusive, supportive, affirming, and accepting environments. We believe our laws and policies should recognize and protect our LGBTQ plus children and youth from discrimination and harm based on their identities. This bill advances that priority in meaningful and practical ways. Senate Bill 18 protects the privacy and dignity of all minors seeking a legal name change by limiting public access to those court records. For many young people, a name change is deeply personal. It may reflect identity, family circumstances, safety considerations, or alignment with who they are. Publicly accessible records can expose children to stigma, harassment, or unnecessary scrutiny, particularly for youth who are already vulnerable. Protecting those records affirms that children are entitled to privacy and dignity in legal processes that affect their identity. Children thrive when they are seen, valued, and affirmed. Policies that protect their dignity help create conditions for stability, joy, and healthy development. All children and youth deserve to grow up in environments where they are safe, supported, and accepted. Senate Bill 18 strengthens protections for children navigating sensitive legal processes and ensures that their identities are not dismissed when courts are making decisions that profoundly affect their lives. So, again, PTA strongly supports Senate Bill 18, and thank you for your thoughtful consideration of our position. Thank you. Do we have a Bruce Parker? state your name and who you represent you have two minutes sir chair and members of the committee thank you for your time today again my name is bruce parker i the executive director of rocky mountain equality a community organization that provides programs services and advocacy for LGBTQ plus people across Colorado and their families I speaking today on behalf of my organization and the more than 25 people we serve each year to ask you to support SB 2618. Privacy is a core value in Colorado. I moved here from Louisiana four years ago, and I'm grateful that Colorado places such a premium on privacy and individual liberty. I'm grateful that my husband, a trans man, and my chosen nieces, one of whom is trans, live here as well. This legislation puts those values into action and helps protect kids, all kids, including trans kids. At a time when trans people, particularly trans and non-binary youth and their families, are under attack by their own federal government and hateful activists who don't respect privacy or autonomy, SB 2618 is an important step to help protect youth, including trans and non-binary youth. This is a good policy and a simple and direct piece of legislation and hopefully an easy vote for you. Thank you to the bill authors for their commitment to community and for bringing this legislation. Thank you to Erica Z and Bread and Roses for working with community and advocating for this legislation. Please vote yes on SB 18. Thank you for your time. Thank you, sir. is there a Zorian Wilbanks? Nope. Hello? There we go. If you can state your name and who you represent. All righty. Good afternoon, members of the Judiciary Committee. My name is Zorian Wilbanks. I use he and they pronouns. I'm the outreach and advocacy specialist for Four Corners Rainbow Youth Center in Durango, Colorado. I work daily with Two Spirit LGBT plus youth, their caregivers, school staff, and I'm here on behalf of our organization and community to urge y'all to vote yes on SB 2618. Aside from, you know, this bill helping out trans folks, I want to say from as an indigenous person from the Ho-Chunk and Oneida Nations, we often get our spiritual names after childbirth, often after our English name is put on a birth certificate. We get these spirit names anywhere from early childhood all the way into elderhood. This bill allows for a route for Indigenous youth to be seen as their spiritual names rather than their first and often English names. And this is our religious right as Indigenous people. So this bill allows for a route for Indigenous youth to embrace that spiritual identity at a young age and bring that into adulthood. I also want to share some statistics with you all. After you hear from our panels, you may hear of people who do not want you to pass this bill. But I think it's really important that you know that the University of Michigan a few years ago surveyed over 2,680 parents and 88% of them are willing to discuss gender identity with their children. These are parents of children between the ages of 3 to 12. And only 7% are absolutely against. And those are that small percent maybe who you hear from later today. I work with many youth who have experienced unsupportive families and homes, as well as schools. This bill allows these students just to be seen as they are and who they've always been. And that's really all I have to say. I urge you to support SB 18. Thank you Zerion Is there a Tanya Allen If you can state your name and who you represent man Good afternoon chair members of the Judiciary Committee My name is Tanya Allen and I represent myself I am here in support of the legal name changes in Senate Bill 18. I am the proud parent of a transgender child here in Colorado who changed his name at the age of 15. As parents, we went through the entire Colorado petition and court hearing process to do so. his name change was a really important part of living authentically as himself. Right now across our country, we're watching an unprecedented push for access to children's private medical records, school records, and deeply personal family information. We're seeing efforts to centralize data, to scrutinize parents' decisions, and to insert government authority into spaces that have always belonged to families and doctors. In this climate, privacy is not theoretical, it is urgent. When the federal government is demanding greater access to personal data, families are being asked to justify private medical decisions, the last thing Colorado should do is leave children's identity history sitting in publicly searchable court records. For trans youth and their families like mine, a legal name change is a really thoughtful, considered process involving medical providers and mental health professionals and parents and judges and courts. It's deeply personal. It's also often medically connected, and it has to go through those proceedings. And that information can become a target. So if the minor's name change is accessible to the public, it can create this roadmap and connect dots between identity and medical care and family decisions and expose families and children to harassment and even doxing. As a parent, we should not have to worry that protecting our child will expose them publicly. In a moment when families are already feeling watched and questioned and politicized, this bill sends a clear message that Colorado protects children's privacy and trusts the parents and understands that our children's sensitive personal information does not belong in the public square. Please, I urge you to support this bill. Our children deserve nothing less. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Allen. Is there Erin Valnick? Yes, present. Good evening, members of the Judiciary community. My name is Erin Vanek on behalf of the Colorado LGBTQ plus Bar Association. I'm here in support of SB 2618. The protections offered by this bill are important for all minors, but name change petitions are but one way that individuals can seek gender affirming care and protection in line with their gender identity and gender expression. Colorado passed the Kelly Loving Act last session to prohibit discrimination against gender expression, including chosen name. Presently, name change petitions for minors are public record. As threats to trans and queer individuals' safety increase under the federal administration, Colorado can further prevent discrimination for individuals who, in line with their gender expression, petition for a name change as a minor. This bill balances dignity for individuals seeking to change their name in line with their gender expression with the need for access to court documents. court documents. Suppression of these files ensures that should the individual or their agent need to request the file, they can do so without the safety risk of a public record. CLBA asks the House Judiciary Committee to vote yes on SB 2618. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Members, do we have questions for this panel? Representative Flannell. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This question is for Mrs. Unger. Just kind of following up to something that you said and you brought it up in your testimony, which was a question that I was going to ask. But if let's say the parents are divorced and the child wants to, the child's transgender and prefers to be, you know, go by a different name and one parent refused, and it's not, you know, they don't agree on that name. So what happens with that dispute? Ms. Unger. Thank you for the question, Representative Flanell. And I think I'm going to answer this question as though there's a dispute to legally change the name. I'm not sure. And if that's not your question, then I'm happy to reframe as well. But what would happen? there's a few scenarios. So if the custody and divorce case is pending, there's a requirement that the petition and the name change be filed within the custody and divorce case so that it can be litigated throughout that process. If there is, and that is also true, if there is a sort of adjudicated custody and divorce case and say that the parents have joint decision making and the parents disagree. In that case, the name change petition would have to be filed within the custody case and it would have to be litigated within that case. Beyond that, there could be a situation where one parent has full decision making and the other parent does not. That case would be filed in the, I'll call it traditional name change process, where they would file a petition, they are required to either file the consent of the non-custodial parent or show that they have given notice to the non-custodial parent, including of the court hearing, where they could be heard. And in that process, the name change process, one of the findings that the court has to make is that the desired name change would be proper and not detrimental to the interests of any other person. And so the parent who disagreed could certainly bring that up in front of the judge. have the opportunity to be heard and then the judge would make the ultimate finding as to whether or not the name change would meet the legal requirements. Representative Flannell. Thank you Mr. Chair. It's funny how you just assume I'm going to ask a follow-up. Okay and then maybe you can explain to me the process because from my understanding and I am I am familiar with the name change process, but it seems like within this bill, it does not, there is no, there's no public record of, you know, during the petition process. I know that, I know years ago you had to take out like an ad in the newspaper and publicize that like, hey, so-and-so is changing their name to this. Are there any objections? So is there something similar? Is that like, is that what would give a parent? Like if a parent or a family member is not aware of what's going on, is there some sort of something that happens that allows the family to be notified? Ms. Unger. Thank you for the question, Representative Flannell. So in general, this bill, the petition process, even if there were two consenting parents, which is the vast majority of name changes, they're filed with both parents on the caption. As it stands now, for everything but, there's a very short list of reasons that the court does not require publication, but for the vast majority of name changes, including all of the reasons that I listed, they would have to publish the fact that they are trying to change their name. This bill does remove that requirement. However if there is still a requirement to either provide the consent of the non parent and or notice to the non parent and so if for example the person could not provide the consent of the non parent and or notice to the non parent And so if for example the person could not provide either consent or notice they could then and I think would have to file a request with the court to notify the person by publication. That is the sort of last resort as a way to publish. And that would be a separate request and a motion that would be filed with the court, but the presumption is that they're actually notifying and can show that they have communicated with the parent and there's either consent or that the person has notice of the request to change the name and the opportunity to be heard. Representative Kelty. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I have a question that's very similar to what Rep. Fennell said, if you don't mind. So I'm going to kind of go to the dark side here. So can this, the way this is written, would this allow a parent, say they're not married, baby daddy, whatever we want to call it, they're not married. Would this allow a parent, whether it's the father or the mother, be able to change the name of the child? let's say the parent's name's not on the birth certificate right so that happens change the name of the child to hide the child from the other parent from he or she being able to find that child let's say they break up something happens god knows what it is doesn't matter can they use this then to hide that child from the other parent that's for miss hunger yes I'm sorry, yes. Ms. Unger. Thank you for the question, Representative Kilty. So I think that there are a few safeguards that would prevent the scenario that you are talking about. First, as I said, you have to, when you file the petition, you have to show that you have either that the other parent agrees or that it's a petition that's filed on behalf of both parents where both parents actually sign the petition. if there is not parental consent then there is a requirement that notice is given and so you the petitioner files proof that they have that they were notified and how the how the other parent was notified including a non-custodial parent if they are unable to notify the non-custodial parent you know in person or giving them a copy of the petition they then can file a request with the court to publish the notice of the intent to change the name. Before they can do that, they have to give the last known address of the non-custodial parent. They have to say that the non-custodial parent no longer lives at that address. They have to show that reasonable efforts were made to contact the non-custodial parent, including by certified mail. And they have to submit the certified mail receipt to the court in order for the court to rule that publication is an appropriate mechanism to notify the parent. Additionally, the court in finding that the name change is proper has to make a finding that the name change is not for the purposes of fraud or to avoid the consequences of a criminal conviction or to facilitate criminal activity. And I think this scenario and that the desired name change would be proper and not detrimental to the interests of any other person And I think in the scenario that you talking about where their intent is to hide a child from the other parent, I think that the court would make findings that that would be for the purposes of fraud, and also that it would be not proper and it would be detrimental to the interests of the other parent. And it wouldn't even get there because they wouldn't be able to show that the parent was notified. So I think that there are a myriad of sort of legal safeguards that would prevent sort of this idea that it would be a surreptitious name change. Representative Kelsey, any further questions for this panel? Thank you, panel. Do I have a Colleen Enos? Catherine Mosley? Christy Neely? Do we have a Laurie Gimmelstein? Carl Roberts no good just wanted to make sure Jenny Rush Ruth Sobel give me one moment Is there a Yasmin Mora? Is there anyone in person who is against this bill? is there anyone in an amend position who is against this bill who is not already sitting in front of me okay Ms. Enos state your name, who you represent you'll have two minutes I apologize, or Ms. Mosley Neely state your name who you represent you have two minutes hi thank you christy neely um i'm here to speak in opposition of this bill and let me be clear i have no objections to minors legally changing their name if that's what they choose with their families my concern is how this bill removes parental involvement and allows the state to act in a child's legal affairs without notifying or involving the parents. The bill itself states a petitioner is not required to give public notice of a name change as required by subsection 1 of this section if the petition is being filed by or on behalf of a person who's under 18. It also mandates that the court grant suppression of the record, quote, notwithstanding subsection 1, if a person petitions the court to suppress a court record associated with the petition to change the petitioner's name that is filed, blah, blah, blah, the date, the request, and orders the records suppressed. While the bill does not explicitly exclude parents, the effect is clear. Parents who are not already parties to the case may have no way of knowing that their child has legally changed their name This effectively sidelines parents and gives the state unchecked authority over family decisions Parents have a fundamental right and a responsibility to guide, protect, and make decisions with their children. SB 26018 shifts that authority from families to the state, and that's deeply concerning. We should be strengthening families, not giving the government the ability to bypass them. So for those reasons, I urge this committee to reject SB 2618 as written and ensure that parents remain the primary decision maker for their children. Thank you. Thank you. Ma'am, if you can state your name, who you represent, you'll also have two minutes. Hello, my name is Catherine Mosley. I believe I've already addressed Ms. Frolic. How dare you? the domestic violence cadence law you know that abusers are misusing ma'am if you could state your comments towards the panel please abusers are misusing this to yes concealed children who have been abused and we are talking head injuries repeat head injuries is that something to smile about i don't think it is and they are already concealing okay medical offices pediatricians i was the primary caregiver. We've got children's hospital. We've got play therapists. We've got the public school that I worked for. We have the Hague Convention, and we have all of a sudden this. Why are none of these people in 460 days with my children, my daughters, have been court kidnapped? Why are they not responding to anything? Still, can you wipe the smirk off of your face? Let me inform you, please, that USC 241 is what it means when it's violated in the context of children using 242 color of law. When two or more individuals act together to deprive a person of their constitutional rights, it's not a misunderstanding. This is not procedural error. It is a federal crime. when the isolation of a child, removal of parents, suppression of identity and information, which they are already doing because they are using color of law, it is violating 12.01. This is a conspiracy against rights. This is when it intersects with kidnapping, insinuates a capital offense. Do you understand what this means? When you are colluding to conceal, cause bodily injury, and deprive a parent and hold a child against their will. If death happens, this USC 3591 can constitute the death penalty for treason, for violating these and causing this type of harm. They're already doing it. If you, we're not even needing to vote It just needs to be stopped The treason needs to be stopped Period Thank you, Ms. Mosley These are my daughters They're waiting to be helped And they are using force of armed sheriffs at the school To not allow me to go get them And there are these not being followed Ignored AT THIS POINT, THE COMMITTEE WILL COME TO RECESS. THANK YOU, MA'AM. IN SESSION, CAN I HAVE MR. CARL ROBERTS, YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES, STATE YOUR NAME AND WHO YOU REPRESENT. Good afternoon and thank you, Chair. My name is Carl Roberts and I ask you to vote no on SB 18. Over the last 10 years or so, Colorado has arguably become the most anti-parent, anti-family, and least child-safe state in the Union. Colorado has earned this distinction by its relentless attack on parental rights. The question I have for the bill sponsors in this committee is why? Why are you so hell-bent on removing the two people who love, provide for, and protect the children the most. Why is it that you prioritize transgender ideology over child health, safety, and well-being? You know, anyway, the rest that I have is just not constructed, but, you know, SB 18 has absolutely nothing to do with the dignity of minors or anyone else. Its intention is to further diminish parental rights and child well-being by hiding name changes from loving parents so children can be more easily groomed and trafficked. That's what the sponsors want. That's what's so ridiculous about this legislature. Anyway, SB 18 is misguided at best. Please, for the sake of Colorado's children, vote no on SB 18. Thank you, sir. Do we have a Miss Rush Can you hear me? Yes ma'am State your name and who you represent You have two minutes Jeannie Rush, I represent humanity Many professionals have been sounding the alarm to our nation However, many schools still promote therapy counselors programs to misguide our youth under the flagship of LGBTQ, et cetera, and tolerance under the flagship of tolerance, which confuses our youth. Even after our president has enacted executive orders to halt all of this on minors, many states, including Colorado, went into contempt of these orders and many schools. Most schools in Colorado to ignore the warnings. You're talking about the dignity of a minor and the advocacy of minors. But while you're doing that, you are shredding not just their dignity, their privacy, their bodies, chemically, mentally, surgically. But most important, this bill allows a social contagion, a mental attack by horrible ideological falsehoods and non-science to capture a child so that they go against their families and everything they know. This is an attack not just on the rights, because you can seal any court file. I know about the sealing of files for minors. But what you're doing is creating bills that rip away and a child can't give informed consent except through all these methods I just mentioned. You're brainwashing them. You're grooming them psychologically, socially destroying them in a false ideology. And then you're masking it with we need to preserve their dignity. You're destroying their dignity with every move you make, every bill you write. this is got to stop thank you thank you is there a lori and you're gonna have to help me gimmelstein you have two minutes if you can state your name and so i can pronounce it correctly uh state your name you know two minutes thank you Chairman and Committee members My name is Lori Gimelstein and I serve as the Executive Director of the Colorado Parent Advocacy Network Our mission is to protect a parent's fundamental authority to direct the upbringing and education of their children. We strongly oppose Senate Bill 2618. We are being told that this is a privacy bill. It is not. We don't allow children to smoke, drink, get a tattoo, or vote. Not because we dismiss them, but because we understand that some decisions require time, maturity, and life experience. If this were about changing a birth certificate to reflect a step-parent or adoptive parent's last name or cultural traditions, there'd be no opposition because we already have processes to protect children in these situations. And you know that. This bill does something much, much more serious. It creates a secretive legal process around children changing their name by suppressing court records and eliminating public notice. I really want to highlight that the earlier version of this bill in the Senate included language that would have required courts to consider whether a parent recognizes a child's newly declared gender identity and custody decisions. That language was struck because of constituent outrage, but it matters that it was there because it shows the direction of these policies and why parents and Coloradans are concerned. You've heard that this bill is about protecting children and improving outcomes, but this bill doesn't provide support. It doesn't provide counseling. It doesn't strengthen families. It moves us further away from parental involvement. Parents are not the problem. They are the safeguard. Coloradans are paying attention as evidenced by the success of the citizen-led ballot initiatives to protect children. And they understand that this bill is not simply about a name change. It's about redefining reality for a child while shifting authority away from parents. Families across the state are pushing back against this system that tells children if they don't fit certain expectations, something is wrong with them. And that the answer is to affirm the belief through legal and medical pathways with lifelong harmful consequences. Coloradans are rejecting that. You as a committee can ignore this fact, but you shouldn't. I urge you to please vote no. Thank you. Do we have a Ruth Sobel? State your name and who you represent. You have two minutes. hi my name is ruth sobel thank you chairman and the committee for allowing me to speak i'm a fourth generation coloradan and i've noticed i i can't say anything better than what laurie had said but i'd like to add something i've noticed that a lot of my family and friends are leaving the state. They're leaving it because it's unaffordable. Everything is going up. The roads are in bad shape. And we are led by a leftist legislature. And what happens when everybody is Democrat in our government, you have this like groupthink. And the whole groupthink is that the government can answer all problems. You know, the family is the foundation of our society. Without the family, we have no America. And without the family, we have no democracy. And what you are doing and I really I mean I have lived here I a fourth generation so I got four grandkids that I really like to stay here but I not going to be able to have them stay here if the legislature and the schools are so concerned about getting them through puberty by changing their gender It's horrible what you are doing. It is child abuse. you need to i i appreciate you slowing down on this bill and and reducing it to just a name change and let's get this first but i i do know that you know how they boil frogs they start them out you know in water in cold water and then they put up the temperature just a little bit more and a little bit more until finally you realize that the government is controlling your every move this is not America this is not freedom we're having people leave the state because of legislation like this it's wrong and I urge you to vote no and stop the people from leaving our state let's get back to our roots the family thank you thank you Ms. Sobel Members, before we ask questions of this panel, I just want to reiterate this bill is strictly about legal name changes. For all reason, it no longer contains anything about the legal standard for the benefit of the child. Do we have questions for this panel? Seeing none, thank you panel. I'm going to make another call again for any anyone in person who is an amend or an against position seeing none is there Missy Espinoza Aaron Meske Deb Marks. Colleen Enos. Jamie Frederick. We will start with Miss Espinoza. Please state your name, who you represent. You'll have two minutes. Missy Espinoza, representing myself. I'm so happy that the original language of the bill, which only allowed for parents to affirm gender ideology, pendejadas, is gone. That's very good. Now we're talking about legal name changes that are going to be hidden forcibly. That's problematic in my my viewpoint. I guess I can think of some scenarios where it could be safe, you know, but I just want to say when this legislative body is trying to hide something, I'm going to oppose it. I haven't seen anything good come from trying to hide things, especially since this bill comes to us from legislators that try to legalize prostitution and basically decriminalize child sex trafficking. I'm very opposed to this bill. Thank you Ms Espinosa I see Aaron Meschke Would you like to state your name and who you represent You have two minutes Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Erin Meshke. I live in Boulder and represent myself. I don't have a problem with name changes in theory, but automatic suppression is not necessary. Birth certificate errors and name changes for adoption or religious reasons don't require court suppression, So this bill is not actually about those issues. The words dignity of a minor are only present for one class of youth. But dignity is best protected by telling the truth, helping confused kids come to grips with reality and whatever discomfort they have, and not by changing their birth name or suppressing an approved change. In almost every circumstance, hiding doesn't actually lead to healing. There are many instances where suppression is necessary or protective, but courts already have that discretion. I am grateful Section 2 was removed from SB 2618, but the precedent set by automatic name suppression is dangerous and also isn't necessary, so I ask for your no vote. Thank you. Thank you. Is there a Deb Marks? Ms. Marks, are you there? yes i'm here can you hear me yes ma'am state your name who you represent you have two minutes my name is deb marks and i uh am a representative from colorado eagle forum which is a non-partisan organization uh and i am here uh to speak against the bill i am happy to see that um There were certain parts of it that were removed, but I feel that that that the what was removed was just a name by removing the words of parents. Parents are still affected by this bill and name changes already have a process and precedent. Hiding the names, suppressing the names is not something that will necessarily help unless you're referring to a special class of persons, which the beginning of the bill that was amended out of the Senate still has the statement at the top that in regards to gender affirming. So there are some problems in this written form of the bill. And because of that and other reasons, I urge you to not vote for this bill at this time. Thank you. Thank you. Before we committee members, before we ask this panel any questions, is there anyone online in the amend or against position? That has not already been called forward. Okay. Members, do we have questions for this panel? Seeing no questions for this panel, thank you. All right. And just to confirm, there's no one in the room who wishes to testify in opposition? Who hasn't gotten the chance? Okay. Kelvin Goodwin, Evelyn Hoffman, Yasmin Mora, Jamie Frederick, Rowan East, Maya Blassingame, Jen, Aspen? Some of these witnesses should be online. Are they... None of them are? Okay. Okay, let's start with the witness on my right. your name, any organization you represent. You will have two minutes. Good afternoon, members of the committee. My name is Jamie Frederick. My pronouns are they, she, and I'm the founder of the Trans Rescue Network. I am here today to speak in support of Senate Bill 18. Trans kids today face a level of pain, bullying, and fear from the continued attacks against them from this administration, as well as organizations seemingly dedicated to causing them harm. Whether that is through doxing campaigns, attacking them directly, or people in their life claiming their sense of who they are isn't real. This is why names are so important. I came out at 17 and I still remember choosing mine. How important that was to me, how much it made me feel more whole. How deeply personal and full of meaning it is. I also remember how much it would sting every time someone dead named me, a sensation I've had to grow numb to over the past 13 years. I also know how important it feels to change your name, to see your own name reflected in documents that we use every day. But a But a fear that many have is their dead name being dug up, being found and used against them. This is a large reason that trans kids I know personally have not sought to change their name. This bill could change that. Suppressing name changes for our trans youth could make it so that no one they do not want to trust with that information would have access to it. It could give trans youth more safety from that kind of harm. It would also help trans youth provide, or it also help provide our trans youth the privacy to help protect them from these continued harms. And most importantly, it shows our trans youth that we are fighting for them in a time where they desperately need it. What we have seen in today's testimony only goes further to show how much we need this bill. Suppressing name changes can help shield trans youth from some of the hate we have seen today. We need to protect our trans youth. It is for this reason that I speak today in support of this bill. I would urge you to do the same and help show Colorado supports and fights for our trans kids. Thank you. Thank you. Okay next witness over state your name in the organization you represent you'll have two minutes. Good evening committee my name is Kelvin Goodman and I'm representing myself. I'm here to speak in support of SB 18 but before I can speak about the dangers of publicly exposing children's private information I have to wonder why anyone feels they have the right to access it. It's clear that this bill does not prevent parents from accessing their own children's information. So I wonder, do they want to stalk other people's children, dox them, or is it for some other form of harassment I can't think of? Or maybe it's simply entitlement. All of these are common dangers facing trans kids, and whatever reasoning they have, I can't imagine that it justifies putting the children of our community in danger. Included in the many children who will benefit from this bill are trans children. Children who are under attack from our federal government, numerous state governments, and adults who, for whatever reason, feel they have the right to harass children. It's our responsibility to ensure that they have the most basic protections in our state. The children of Colorado need to know that we will protect them, and families in other states need to know that if they come to Colorado, that they'll be safe here. We constantly throw around claims of protecting children and if we mean it we do need to listen to what they are telling us they need for their own safety I asking you to vote in favor of this bill Thank you Thank you Okay next witness over State your name and the organization you represent. You will have two minutes. Hello, and thank you all so much for the opportunity to be here to testify before you today. My name is Rowan East. My pronouns are they, them, and theirs, and I'm representing myself. And I'm here to urge you to vote yes on Senate Bill 18. Because all people deserve to live in dignity, and a fundamental part of that is privacy. Knowing that private information cannot be dug up by others allows people to live without the fear that their personal life will be exposed without their consent. Right now, the public is able to search for children's name change records. Not only does this allow people who seek to do harm to access sensitive information, but there have been documented instances of parents and classmates searching for these records and outing trans children to their school community. These records being public enables this bullying, doxing, harassment, and violence. When we respect the identity, autonomy, privacy, and dignity of young people, it sends a message that their community is behind them. The fact is that young people should be able to expect that their privacy will be respected. This bill just affirms that. I can tell you as a trans person who came out at 17 that the ability to live as your authentic self is absolutely essential. And being told that other people know your gender better than you do is not only an incredibly diminishing experience, it undermines the idea that all people are equal. So with that, I strongly urge you to vote yes on Senate Bill 18 because the privacy and dignity of children should never be compromised. Thank you all so much. Thank you. Okay, next witness over, state your name. Any organization you represent. You'll have two minutes. My name is Maya Blassingame. I am representing myself, and I am for this bill. Why should we support this bill, right? I think it's pretty obvious why we should. There's so many places in this nation where we're seeing people's private information just being taken away and sold off to the highest bidder almost, right? I mean, we're seeing states turning over voters' registrations without much pushback, or we're seeing logs of people who are transgender basically just being created by states, and what are they going to do with that information? I'm not too sure, but we saw it happen in Kansas. They could take away your license real freaking quick, and you don't have nothing to say about it. So I appreciate this room being able to listen to the community. We're seeing in a lot of states people are passing legislation without even hearing from the community. on both sides. Y'all had to sit through a lot of testimony. This is a bill that was informed by Colorado youth. I'm not sure if you know that or those who are against the bill know that. So we're doing things that are asked for our communities, right? As leaders with the communities inform what we're doing and this is the right thing to do. So if you're really looking at being against the bill, we always remember that, right? And we make sure to elect or unelect you at some points too. So just, you know, let's make some common sense here. It's passed this bill. People have worked really hard on this. This is an easy yes and a way to show the rest of the nation that Colorado stands up for their rights. So their youth, youth who are being targeted, youth who are losing their rights left and right. And I can assume that, you know, if these type of draconian bills that were put out in other states were done here, a lot of you who are against the bill would probably be like, oh, maybe we should be doing something about this, especially if it were pertaining to your communities, right? Because you're not trans. You might not know a trans person, but I mean you have a bunch of us right here saying why you probably should and maybe you should listen to the community that actually is like from that community and not those that aren in the community Because if you not trans and you don have a trans child or you don know somebody who trans why are you informing our community about what trans people should be doing Right? Because it's almost like you're studying for a test and you don't study the course material at all and you come in for a run of the test and you're like, wow, I effed for some reason, right? So let's just be smart about this. Thank you so much. I am done. Thank you. Committee members, do we have questions for this panel? witnesses. No, thank you for coming. Thank you for sharing your stories and for your testimony. Is there anyone else online who wishes to testify on this bill? No. Okay. And is there anyone else in the room? I have Z. I was trying to make sure Z was last. Z Williams, Come forward. Okay. Z Williams, you will have two minutes. Stay in the organization you represent. You may begin. Thank you, members of the committee. My name is Z Williams. My pronouns are they and them. I'm the co-director and co-founder of Bread and Roses Legal Center. And I want to thank our bill sponsors specifically for listening to the call from the community to help us guide this bill through the legislature. Part of my role at Bread and Roses is to act as a legal doula. That's someone that helps people through the very painful process of navigating the legal system. And name changes are one of the only time that that's a happy experience. Watching people's face the moment that the judge issues the order and calls them by their true name is seriously one of the best parts of my job. And when it's a kid and you get to see their parents and the people who love them so happy to see that young person affirmed it's even better this bill came to us from a parent who's a member of ours who's worked very hard on trans issues whose child in third grade was outed to her entire school community and her sports community by a parent who suspected the child was trans went and looked up her name change and then enlisted her own children to circulate this bullying material, forcing the family to move out of the school district and ultimately out of Colorado. I'm a parent. I've given birth to five children, and I named every single one of them with great care. And each of their names is nothing more than a gift, just like the clothing that I buy them, that they cover in Sharpies and cut up, or the toys that they leave at the park. A name is a gift. Once it changes hands, it's not ours anymore. But my job as a parent is to protect my children, and this bill came from parents who want to protect their children. So please vote yes on Senate Bill 18. Thank you. Thank you. Committee members, we have questions for our witness. Okay, seeing none, thank you for your time and for your testimony. Having previously done two calls for final witnesses, the witness testimony phase is closed. Bill sponsors, do you have amendments? Okay, committee members, do we have amendments? Seeing none, the amendments phase is closed. Bill sponsors, wrap up. Wrap up, Garcia. members I one of the things that I I really love about bringing bills that come from community and that are driven by community and that are filled with community testimony and support is that it all been completely and totally and effectively spoken for and therefore leaves me with nothing to close with and so I will simply just end with that and please vote yes Matt Froehlich Thank you Mr Chair Thank you to the folks who came out to testify on all sides of this. I do want to clarify in my opening remarks, I said it was the Department of Law that's inaccurate. It was a judiciary that had a last-minute problem. And I think, just to echo what my wonderful co-prime said, I think what we saw was expressions of love from a lot of different folks. And we ask you to come down on the side of protecting some youth who, in many circumstances, are quite vulnerable. So we ask for an aye vote. Rob Garcia, proper motion is to the Committee of the Whole. Thank you. I move Senate Bill 18 to the Committee of the Whole. Second. We're giving that to AML Bacon. That was delayed. Okay, that's proper motion seconded by AML Bacon. Committee members, do we have closing comments? Rep Soper. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, sponsors. I'm going to be, I know, on the bill today, and I'll tell you why. Colorado is a rather progressive state when it comes to name changes. Certainly, Representative Garcia, you've been a leader in this front. And under current law, the courts often do waive publication for transgender individuals and others for various reasons. There could be a long list of reasons. It's not enumerated in statute, but certainly it can be made to the court. An individual petitioning the court for a name change has the ability to request to keep the entire process confidential. That's under current law. If the court agrees, the record is sealed and no public record publication or newspaper publication is required. The reason why changing to having it be an automatic no publication requirement for a minor, there could be many different reasons for why it's important. One might be fraud prevention. uh you know certainly someone who is trying to change their name to i get it a minor should not necessarily have debt or creditors but that is entirely possible or to elude criminal liability from their name being attached to other cases protection of third parties certainly not knowing what a third party might have that's out there, it's important to maintain accurate records. And that if we're gonna respect the fact that a person has changed their name, it's important to know what their name was and what their name is being changed to. Because if someone has had their, for example, they come to a clinic and they're recognized under one name and they had no notice or opportunity to be able to call that person by an accurate name, then all of a sudden it opens up that business entity to legal liability when they state the wrong name because they were never given any notice of the fact that a name change had occurred. And I believe that that's only respectful people, want to do the right thing. I mean, I really do believe that in Colorado. They don't want to mislabel people and call them by a name other than what they want to be called by. But if no notice is given at all that a name change has occurred, even in the form of a, hey, that's actually my old name, this is my new name, then we've created challenges here, and we've created difficulties. For all of those reasons are why I'm going to be a no vote. I do appreciate the individuals that came forward today and I do want to let those individuals know that. Know that I do see that there is a process. I understand that there may have been difficulties. There's difficulties across the board, but we have set up a system that if used, should actually protect the publication of a miner's name. Thank you. Further closing comments? Vice Chair Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I be brief in that I want to commend the committee I always proud of this committee I originally called us just an island of misfit toys but now I've decided we are the Bizarro Avengers in that we are completely different, but as a whole, I believe in this. I understand the work that you are doing. I apologize that it has to be step-by-step, and it has to be piecemeal. But I appreciate it and I commend it as someone whose existence would be questioned if we were sitting here 100 years earlier, as someone whose relationship was illegal 50 years ago, and as someone whose children would not even be considered citizens. not even citizens, not even considered fit to be a part of this country. I thank you. I appreciate you. One of the best parts of having broad shoulders is I can stand in the way when there nonsense And so I thank you again I going to be a yes and I will stand in between I use these broad shoulders to stand in between whoever I need to stand in because if we going to do this piecemeal I want to be there So thank you I want to echo a lot of what Vice Chair Carter said. And a thing that I want to highlight and say clearly and proudly is there are people here in this legislature, in the government in the state of Colorado, who are proud to stand up for the civil rights of our trans neighbors and our trans community. Our trans community is under attack by the President of the United States. The president of the United States is attacking kids. We see horrific things happening across the country. The state of Kansas is ruining people's lives, creating lists, taking away people's IDs just because of their identities, things they cannot help. This, I say this often, if you ever wonder what you would have been doing in the great fights for civil rights to end slavery, it's what you're doing right now. And this is one of our generation's fight for civil rights. And so thank you for coming for telling your stories and for standing up at a time when your community is under attack And of course thank you to the bill sponsors for always championing legislation like this Ms. Shipley, please call the roll. Representatives Bacon. Yes. Clifford. Yes. Espinosa. Yes. Flannell. No. Garcia. Yes. Elty. No. Slough. Rebs law, can you unmute yourself this time? Can you hear me? Yes. I'm in. No. Okay. Thank you. No. It's okay. Yes. Carter. Yes. Mr. Chair. Yes. Okay, on a vote of 7 to 4, that bill passes. You're on the way to the Committee of the Whole. And with that, the Judiciary Committee is adjourned.