March 25, 2026 · TOURISM, RECREATION AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT · 11,555 words · 10 speakers · 73 segments
Josh, would you please take the roll?
Chairwoman Daley?
Here.
Representative Bellman?
Here.
Designation. Oh, designation. I'm sorry. Representative Boyd?
Designation.
Representative Brennan?
He is here. He was here. He was here.
Well, then he's by designation until he comes back. Okay.
Representative Sapita Freitas?
Here.
Representative Serrato?
Designation.
Representative Powell?
Here.
Representative Probst? Representative Prokopiak Representative Rivera Representative Rusnock Representative Steele Representative Takak Representative Young Representative
Hier
Representative Arminini Representative Banta Representative Barger Representative Cook Representative Flick Representative Jones. Representative Pickett. Representative Smith. Representative Tordzik. Representative Wentling.
Madam Chairman, you have a quorum. Or woman, I'm sorry.
It's okay. Thank you. So, I'd like to call up the following resolutions at the same time. House Resolution 416, 422, 437, 440, 445, and 446. And due to the time constraints for this meeting, members will not provide commentary for their resolutions today. Josh, would you run through the explanation for each of the resolutions?
House Resolution 416, introduced by Representative Mirsky, designates April 18, 2026 as Erie Day in Pennsylvania. House Resolution 422, introduced by Representative Bashline, designates February 22, 2026 as the United States Men's and Women's Olympic Hockey Gold Medal Champions Day in Pennsylvania. House Resolution 437, introduced by Representative Freeman, recognizes the month of April 2026 as National Poetry Month in Pennsylvania. House Resolution 440, introduced by Representative Bellman, designates March 8, 2026 as Fight of the Century Day in Pennsylvania. House Resolution 445, introduced by Representative Benninghoff, designates April 8, 2026 as the Pennsylvania State University IFC Pan-Hellenic Dance Marathon Day in Pennsylvania, better known as THON Day. House Resolution 446, introduced by Representative Malagari, designates March 25, 2026 as Greek Independence Day in Pennsylvania.
Thank you, Josh. The question is, will the committee report the resolution? And on that question, does anyone wish to speak? And if so, please raise your hand. Okay. With no further discussion, I'm going to call the rolls for House Resolutions 416, 422, 437, 440, 445, and 446 together. Are there any negative votes? So seeing no negative votes resolutions 416 422 437 440 445 and 446 pass unanimously and will be reported as committed And so I don't really have any parting words. Do you have any parting words for this? Oh, and I would like to say that Representative Brennan is here, so he is present for this meeting. and we don't really have any other commentary, so that includes our business for today's committee meeting. Thank you, and I encourage members to stay for the upcoming hearing starting at 9.30, which is three minutes from now. There we go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you Thank you. So we're going to call to order this information hearing related to House Bill 2303. And our first panel is getting seated. Thank you very much. I just would like to thank everyone who is here. I know that Representative Powell and her staff and actually my staff also have put a lot of work into this bill. So we're looking forward to a good hearing. So thank you all for being here. And we have to take the roll again for this meeting.
Chairwoman Daly.
Here.
Representative Bellman. representative boyd сопiak Mucopiak. On leave. Representative Rivera. Representative Rusnak. On leave. Representative Steele. On leave. Representative Takak. On leave. Representative Young. On leave. Chairman Warner.
Here.
Representative Arbenini. Leave. Representative Banta. Leave. Representative Barger. Leave. Representative Cook. Leave. Representative Cooper.
Here.
Representative Flick. Leave. Representative Jones. Leave. Representative Pickett. Leave. Representative Smith. Representative Tordzik. Representative Wentling.
All right. Excellent.
Chair Warner, do you have any opening remarks?
Yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair. First, I'd just like to thank the prime sponsor for bringing this issue up for discussion today. As many of you know, my colleague, Representative Duell-Hepley, has had similar legislation relating to short-term rental compliance for a few sessions, and I am pleased to see some attention being focused on an issue that is not a partisan issue. It's a Pennsylvania issue. I think that we all can agree the rise of the Internet has significantly transformed the way individuals set their travel plans. The likes of inns or beds and breakfasts that were considered a more personal and intimate lodging experience for travelers has changed. While the traditional hospitality models of the past still exist, the home-away-from-home model looks very different today. The emergence of listing platforms has added a layer of complexity to the hospitality industry I think we can all agree that with this shift issues surrounding customer safety compliance standards and governance need to be discussed Regulations can provide a roadmap for the hospitality industry and local governments While the intentions of regulations are good, we must enact public policy in a thoughtful and pragmatic manner. We must find a healthy balance between efficient and necessary government oversight without enacting policies that may adversely impact an emerging industry model. Pennsylvania has a history of over-regulating business and industry across many sectors. While we philosophically may not agree on this point, I think we can all agree that we do not want to enact policies that place adverse economic limitations on Pennsylvania's second, number two, industry, tourism. With that, I thank everybody for joining us here today, and thank you, Madam Chair. Just for your information, if you notice, several of the women here are dressed in white today, and the speaker has asked us to come up to the floor if we're not finished yet for a picture. It's about women's suffrage and honoring that. So if we get up, it's not because we're leaving. We'll be back, and hopefully it won't take too long to get that done. So we can now move on. Panel one, Zach Pysak is from the Senior Director of Public Affairs for the Pennsylvania Restaurant and Lodging Association, also known as PRLA. Yvonne Hirsch is Counsel for the Joint State Government Commission, JSGC. I do love these acronyms. Fritz Smith is president and CEO of the Happy Valley Adventure Bureau. And Gianca Castillo, who is with Local Government Affairs for the American Hotel and Lodging Association, provided written testimony. So she will not be here. So the floor is yours if you want to go in that order. Oh, I'm so sorry. It's just such a crazy day. Rep Powell has opening remarks.
I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Daley. Yep, it's on. Chairwoman Daley and Chairman Warner, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk about this issue. It's something that, as a newly elected public figure, something that was incredibly important to us, not just for our district, but in the remarks made earlier for the Commonwealth. If I could talk a little bit about the impetus for this for us, I want to talk a little bit about the challenges and the opportunity. In our district, back at home, in the last two years, we've seen two shootings, one fatal, of two teenagers that were shot at an Airbnb. A party had taken place. It was an Airbnb that consistently was a nuisance. And again, two young people's lives were lost. a challenge in another part of my district in Lawrenceville. It's actually the zip code where our office actually resides, 15201 from 2010 to 2020. The property value increased so drastically that it is throughout the country, I think, the second highest jump in any other zip code, largely because of the speculation from outside of Pittsburghers, outside owners coming to buy property in Lawrenceville and really upping the property value and making it really difficult for long-term owners to stay there, people who want to be a part of our community. We've seen an aggressive rise in short-term rentals. But I also want to talk about the opportunity. As someone who avidly uses short-term rentals, uses Airbnb and Vrbos, it's a wonderful opportunity to get to know parts of our state that are making it a little bit more accessible to go there. We also know that if folks utilize short-term rentals, they're more likely to spend money at small businesses. They're more likely to walk through neighborhoods, go through the parks. It's a really great way to understand and know and get to enjoy different parts of our municipalities and cities. What we try to do in this bill is make a good balance of making sure that we have safe regulations that make sure that all renters are safe, that there's a standard that you can come to expect as a patron, but also that we have rules and regulations that ensure that our municipalities and our counties know where the short-term rentals are in our communities and we can hold folks accountable. We've had the opportunity to talk to many of the stakeholders today to get their input and insight and expertise on this because, as said before, it's a balance. We want to make sure that people are utilizing our short-term rentals because they very much are opportunities outside of traditional tourism to get to know our neighborhoods and cities, but also making sure that there's a standard. So wherever you go across the Commonwealth, whether it's Pittsburgh or Philly or Punxsutawney, that you're able to have the same experience. And so I'm grateful for Chairwoman Daly and her team for helping us craft this bill, especially to our Chief of Staff, Will Taylor, and so many others that have poured into this bill so that I believe we have something that's balanced, that's fair, that is pro-business, but also pro-experience. So thank you so much for your time, and I look forward to hearing folks' testimony on this important issue.
Thank you very much. Appreciate those remarks. So, Zach, do you want to start?
Thank you. Yes, good morning, Chairwoman Daly, Republican Chairman Warner, members of the House Tourism, Recreation, and Economic Development Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Zachary Pysik, and I serve as Senior Director of Public Affairs at the Pennsylvania Restaurant and Lodging Association, the PRLA. I'm here today to support House Bill 2303, sponsored by Representative Powell. For quite some time now, PRLA has emphasized the scale and the urgency of the issue before you all. We appreciate Representative Powell's leadership advancing the importance of this conversation as well as that of the committee. According to the Joint State Government Commission, who delivered this body with a comprehensive report on the matter back in 2025, there are now nearly 60,000 short-term rentals operating across Pennsylvania. These properties are active in more than three-quarters of the Commonwealth's municipalities and collectively generate hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue for both owners and platforms. Short-term rentals are no longer a niche or an emerging segment of the travel market. They are a growing part of Pennsylvania's lodging economy. And yet this rapidly expanding sector operates within a fragmented and inconsistent regulatory environment. In fact, the absence of a baseline statewide framework is precisely what has created the current patchwork we see from township to township and county to county. In many places, oversight is limited and sometimes nonexistent. Definitions vary, regulations vary, and governments lack a clear understanding of where these properties are operating or whether basic safety and tax requirements are truly being met. House Bill 2303 we believe will reduce confusion by establishing consistent definitions and minimum standards while still allowing local municipalities to tailor policies to their local needs The short rental industry has grown faster than the policies we believe are needed to responsibly govern it This is why this conversation and we believe the legislation matters By way of background, PRLA represents more than 5,000 members statewide, including more than 1,700 lodging properties, 27,000 restaurants, and destination marketing organizations across Pennsylvania. Our membership reflects the broader travel tourism hospitality ecosystem here in Pennsylvania, from urban convention hotels to small bed and breakfasts and inns, from rural destinations to major tourism markets. Collectively, tourism, and you all I'm sure know this, is one of Pennsylvania's largest industries, supporting more than 500,000 jobs and generating approximately $80 billion in annual economic impact. Importantly, our perspective is not limited to just traditional hotels. Through our destination marketing and tourism partners, we see the full pictures of how travelers experience Pennsylvania and how lodging of all types contributes to our tourism economy. PRLA recognizes that short-term rentals play a very important role, including many small occasional hosts who operate responsibly. While short-term rentals often occur in residential properties, their transient fee-based nature introduces operational and public safety considerations that differ meaningfully from traditional residential use. Our goal is not to restrict the market. Our priority has always been to work collaboratively to ensure that this growing sector is able to operate responsibly, safely, and fairly. Like many of you, my friends and family have used Airbnb, Vrbo, and other short-term rental platforms to book unique lodging while traveling. These platforms have opened the door to new experiences many of us might not have otherwise considered, from cabins to even you can book teepees. But the Joint State Government Commission has also highlighted the risks that come with a largely unregulated marketplace. Consider this scenario, for instance. Your family is vacationing in a remote part of Pennsylvania when a severe winter storm hits. Hopefully no more of those on the horizon. Power is knocked out, cell service and Internet go down, roads become impassable, and you're staying in a cabin in an unfamiliar rural area, relying mostly on GPS just to navigate to the nearest gas station. which is now closed. And imagine this is happening in your district, travelers in your local region, and imagine that the property owner is not registered in any capacity with the local municipality or the county. In an emergency, local officials, volunteer firefighters, rescue personnel could have no idea that a family of five vacationers might be stranded there. Public roads might indicate the home belongs to a guy named John Doe, and John lives in New York. That's where authorities think that John might be, out of town and back home. Days could pass, before anyone even realizes that visitors and guests are inside that home who might need help. And while that may sound like a hypothetical, without even a basic registry, local officials may have no idea where these short-term rentals are operating or their guests are. House Bill 2303 represents an important and in many ways trailblazing step in the right direction. For the first time, the Commonwealth is moving to clearly define and distinguish between the different types of short-term rental activity out there, an approach consistent with the recommendations made by the Independent Joint State Government Commission, establishing clear and consistent definitions as we believe foundational for what could be very good policy. It provides certainty for operators, clarity for local governments, and a shared framework for enforcement and compliance. Just as importantly, the legislation thoughtfully threads the needle between state oversight and local control, essentially establishing what we would categorize as basic minimum standards for local government to consider Pennsylvania communities are diverse and housing markets and tourism dynamics vary widely What works in Southeastern PA and Chairwoman Daley district for our NARBS may not work in Fayette County for Chairman Warner's district, but this bill respects the critical role of local governments by preserving their authority to tailor those policies for local conditions while also positioning the Commonwealth to monitor trends, understand market activity, and engage more effectively in the sector as it continues to evolve. Rather than replacing local control, the legislation strengthens it by giving local governments better tools, clear definitions, and access to information that many regions lack today. At its core, the legislation begins to move Pennsylvania toward greater structure, provides for basic health and safety standards, appropriate liability coverage, tax compliance, and greater visibility into where short-term rentals are operating. That visibility, we believe, is essential, and not just from a tax or revenue perspective, but a reliable registry helps ensure visitor safety, support neighborhood quality of life, and will give local officials and our first responders the information that they need when issues arise. It also has growing relevance for broader public safety concerns. PRLA is proud to be supporting House Bill 1286, and we're thankful for this committee's efforts to move that out of committee in 2025 unanimously. and the entire House, I think, in bipartisan fashion. This is Representative Young's legislation that would require anti-human trafficking training across the entire lodging industry. Law enforcement partners have reported an increase in trafficking activity occurring in short-term rental properties. And as policymakers consider measures like this, we believe it becomes critically important to know where short-term rentals are operating. Another important component of the legislation is platform accountability. Experience in other states has shown that requiring booking platforms to share data and help support compliance is one of the most effective ways to ensure consistent enforcement and reduce the burden of our local governments. When platforms are part of the accountability structure, the system works better for regulators, communities, and responsible hosts alike. While platforms have implemented a number of voluntary safety and support measures, experience in other states has shown that clear, consistent data sharing and compliance requirements are still necessary to ensure transparency and effective enforcement. From PRLA's perspective, the legislation advances three key principles. First is fairness. Traditional lodging providers operate under comprehensive health, safety, accessibility, and tax requirements. Establishing baseline expectations across lodging types of all types helps ensure a more level playing field. Second is safety and consumer confidence. Visitors should know that wherever they stay in Pennsylvania, basic protections and guardrails are in place. And third is community sustainability and local control. Local governments need reliable information and clear authority to balance tourism growth with housing availability, infrastructure capacity, and quality of life for our residents. A well-understood and accountable short-term rental market will help the Commonwealth meet consumer demand while protecting communities and visitors alike. The Joint State Government Commission described this issue as the beginning of a broader policy conversation. And from our perspective, we believe we're still at the tip of the iceberg. But House Bill 2303 is a practical and balanced first step toward bringing structure, transparency, and accountability. This bill does not impose a one-size-fits-all system. it establishes, we think, a light-touch baseline framework that brings consistency where it's currently lacking. We appreciate the leadership of the committee in examining this important issue. PRA looks forward to continuing to work with our lawmakers local governments platforms and industry partners as these conversations move forward Thank you all for your time and commitment to supporting Pennsylvania tourism economy Happy to answer any questions after colleagues speak here
Representative Tordzik has joined us, so he is present. And Representative Armanini. Thanks. and representative serrato so the next speaker can start
being this short in a little chair um i'm yvonne hirsch i am counsel for the joint state government Commission. Thank you all for having us here. I was the project manager for this study. I look around this panel and the other witnesses and I'm very reassured because we talk to every one of these organizations during the process of this study. So I feel like we have people with us. Obviously, we don't normally just come out and say we support this bill or that bill, but this bill is based on recommendations we made. So we're pretty confident in saying we like this bill. And quick aside for Representative Daly, with the acronyms, the rest of the world calls us JSGC. We call ourselves the joint. So feel free. Anyway, and also this study, the local government commission was directed to assist us, and I want to acknowledge their help on especially the municipal law aspects of this study. This study examined existing ordinances and laws regulating short-term rentals, the risk and benefits on the public and the Commonwealth economy, the accessibility and availability of public information and data, the impact on the traditional lodging community and broader tourism efforts, the effect on the naturally occurring affordable housing stock and other information relative to the safe and lawful use of short-term rentals. Now, this bill addresses the more general regulatory aspects of it. But if you're interested in the affordable housing and the tourism pact and things like that, our report's available online, and it's not super long. And some of the things we wrote about included the incident in your district and some of the other public safety things that have come up with short-term rentals. So our hope, our goal was to present a balanced look at what this industry is doing. The underlying principle of the recommendations in this bill, from our perspective, is the importance of local governments being able to determine locations amenable to short-term rentals via zoning ordinances. And Zach spoke to that a bit, too, about knowing your neighborhoods, knowing your communities, knowing where this is a good fit, not a good fit. And that is, this is my soapbox issue. We are a commonwealth. Local government control is very important. Local government thoughts on how to manage local issues is very important. The role of the various municipalities making those kind of local decisions represents the diversity of the state as a whole, because we are so big and so different. You just look at the tourism regions and what we're looking at with the different short-term rentals in different places. And so that flexibility, that ability to respond to local conditions is very important. Another important aspect was to distinguish between the types of short-term rentals currently in operation. Not all short-term rentals are equal in terms of reasonable expectations of property rights, community impact, and private versus commercial interest. As one little data point to share, when we finished the report last spring, most studies were showing that 70 to 80 percent of short-term rentals were one owner one property so um a lot of these are the mom and pop operations or grandma doing her thing um during the big football weekend kind of thing like happy valley makes me think of that the um so uh the impact on the home's local neighborhood, including noise, parking, community infrastructure demands, and amenities and crowding in, rather crowding at amenities in planned communities, which is an issue that we heard out of the Poconos region where you have a lot of planned communities around lakes and the amount of traffic and usage of those amenities when you have a lot of short-term rentals. So they all affect the frequency of rentals of a particular property, the number of guests on site at any given time, and the amount of owner supervision of the rental. Requiring short-term rental owners to obtain a permit allows municipality to map locations for emergency services and law enforcement. This also provides an opportunity to ensure that the property is habitable and properly insured. Minimum insurance coverage, safety standards, and inspection requirements attempt to ensure public safety but not impose relatively onerous demands on infrequent casual hosts. And the bill makes that distinction between homestays, which are your little mom and pops, and the property management companies that may own 20 vacation rentals and to try to balance the needs of protecting the public and not imposing tons of responsibilities on somebody who's just trying to make a little extra money over the course of the year. Local short-term rental registries already required in a number of municipalities across the Commonwealth are important for several reasons, such as to identify where the property is located and the number of persons in residence at any particular time in order to better assist fire, disaster, or medical emergencies, or for contact tracing in a public health incident or emergency. The more mundane but true is every county but two in Pennsylvania has a hotel tax. Being able to know who is running these operations allows the community to better collect those taxes which then end up coming back into the community and paying for the infrastructure upgrades and the stress on maybe water systems and sewage systems and roads. And I guess that's it. I'm available to answer any questions. I said if you want to get more in-depth on some of the other stuff, our reports on our website. This was an interesting study, and it's been a pleasure presenting to you.
Thank you so much for that testimony. I'm just going to say, you're Rebecca? Okay. So Rebecca is listed on the second panel, and Laura is online. And so I think what we're going to do to make this move smoothly is go on to Happy Valley and then just immediately go with Rebecca and Laura. And then there will be time, hopefully, for Q&A. So is that good with all of you? All right. And hopefully it's good for us. So thank you. Fritz? All right. Happy Valley. Here we are. All right. Thank you.
Good morning, Chairwoman Daley, Chairman Warner, and members of the House Tourism and Recreational and Economic Development Committee. My name is Fritz Smith, and I'm the President and CEO of the Happy Valley Adventure Bureau, which is the tourism promotion agency for Center County, Pennsylvania. And for your benefit, Chairwoman Daley, our acronym is HBAB. So I also have the responsibility and privilege to serve as the chair of the Pennsylvania Restaurant and Lodging Association. So I work closely with Zach and his team to advance the hospitality industry's interests. In my role with PRLA, I co-chaired a task force to examine the many issues surrounding the short-term rental landscape in Pennsylvania. We were so pleased, Representative Powell, when you introduced a resolution to study the issue and to commission this report with the Joint State Commission and subsequently to introduce what is now HB 2303. Thank you for your leadership on this issue. in my role marketing center county pa or as we affectionately call the area happy valley as a tourism destination i've watched the short-term rental economy grow in our community to the point that we now have the fourth or fifth highest number of short-term rentals in the commonwealth depending upon what month it is only philadelphia allegheny and monroe counties feature more listings and we generally bounce back and forth with lancaster for fourth and fifth places So all major tourism destinations. People come to stay with us year-round, not just for football games. We generate a lot of revenue from short-term rentals all year long. And it's interesting to get the destination marketing perspective because we're the entity that spends the room tax dollars that they generate, that Airbnb and BRBO and others generate. The advent of the short-term rental landscape has been good for tourism in general. Well, let me backtrack. As an organization that's supported by hotel room tax in order to do the marketing that helps draw visitors to the area, we now recognize Airbnb and VRBO and others as major contributors to this effort. Occupancy tax from short rentals now contributes about 25 percent of our overall room tax collections with hotels and bed and breakfasts contributing the balance The advent of the short rental landscape has been good for tourism in general As Representative Powell indicated it gets people out into neighborhoods and to parts of counties and regions of the Commonwealth that people weren't going to traditionally. So it's been good for the neighborhood restaurant, the neighborhood retailer. And in Center County specifically, we're kind of a microcosm of other counties in PA, with some municipalities imposing very strict limits on when and where you can rent your home, some much more accommodating, and then we have municipalities that don't have any regulation at all, which is causing some frustration, quite frankly, from some of our law enforcement officials who don't have a good sense of what's going on. That being said, our hotel and bed and breakfast partners, who have invested very substantial sums of money into their businesses and who are major employers in our communities operating in a highly regulated environment want to have a level playing field. They believe, and we agree, that those who wish to list their homes or properties on short-term rental platforms should adhere to the same health and safety regulations that the hotels and bed and breakfast do. The residents of our neighborhoods, who in many cases are existing side-by-side with short-term rentals, deserve these protections also. House Bill 2303 is a great start to putting a common-sense environment in place that allows commerce and individual entrepreneurship to thrive, but ensures accountability and safety and allows for visitors to enjoy a new experience, all while respecting local authority and governance and equal and fair competition among different lodging segments. We applaud the idea of a registry. It is critical that local law enforcement knows which houses are being rented, how to contact the owner. We applaud efforts to ensure proof of liability insurance, payment of all applicable fees and taxes, safety requirements as outlined in the bill, such as carbon monoxide detection devices and any measure consistent with applicable building and fire codes. We do not want to see a tragedy unfold anywhere else in the Commonwealth, such as what happened in Pittsburgh, that could result in a rush to over-regulate. We should proceed thoughtfully but with some urgency to protect the hospitality landscape and allow our visitors to experience the Commonwealth safely. Thank you.
Thank you very much. So Rebecca with the Pocono Association of Vacation Rental Owners. Thank you for being here. Thank you very much.
Good morning, Chair and members of the committee. First, I want to thank Representative Powell and her team for including us in this process. We felt heard throughout, and we genuinely appreciate the time, thought, and effort that has gone into this bill. It's clear that you are working to strike a thoughtful balance, and we view ourselves as partners in helping you get there. My name is Rebecca Gallagher, and I serve as the Executive Director of the Poconos Association of Vacation Rental Owners. We represent more than 200 members across Wayne, Pike, Monroe, and Carbon counties with partners who span the broader hospitality industry. Earlier this month, we hosted the third annual Poconos STR conference with more than 500 attendees. They were owners, operators, suppliers, and public officials, all focused on one thing, how to operate responsibly while strengthening the communities we're part of. that's who we represent, that's the industry we serve. At our core, our mission is simple. We support responsible short rental owners and the communities in which they operate Those goals are not in conflict They are fundamentally connected To help you understand my background and how I can uniquely see all points of view here on this issue, it's important to know that I spent more than 15 years as a nine-guestroom bed-and-breakfast innkeeper with a restaurant and a short-term rental connected. So today, I am the advocate for short-term rental owners while living in a community with a substantial number of timeshares where STRs are prohibited. Mentioning my background is important because I think it's, there are two particular perspectives that seem to be left out when discussing short-term rentals, who are also your constituents just as much as the people potentially living next door to those rentals. It's the owners and the traveling public. I'd like to address some common misconceptions about those groups. First, that owners are all rich and STR guests are all loud, horribly behaved partiers. Too often, short-term rental owners are portrayed as those large-scale investors or bad actors. You mentioned a statistic about only 75 percent. Airbnb statistics are that 95 percent of people on that platform owned three properties or less. So while those cases do exist, they aren't the norm. And the reality is that most STR owners are just everyday people, middle-class families who are only able to own a vacation home because they can rent it out when they're not using it. For many, that income is what makes investment property ownership possible. For others, it could be what helps them stay in their own home during a period of financial uncertainty. And let's not forget those travelers. Short-term rentals provide access to accommodations that simply don't exist in the traditional lodging market. For a family of five, having to book and afford multiple hotel rooms just to take a vacation is often out of reach. Or how about families with special needs, maybe an autistic child who relies on the comfort and predictability of a private home? And then there's those multi-generational families who need shared space, shared costs, and to have a place to cook those family meals for their family reunion. These aren't luxury use cases. They're practical realities. So when we talk about restricting or eliminating short-term rentals, we need to be clear about who's actually impacted. It's not the people with the most financial resources. It's middle-class homeowners and everyday travelers. So with all that background in mind, I want to be clear about something. We support regulation. Good regulation strengthens this industry. It creates accountability, consistency, and professionalism. And the traveling public wants to see that just as much as the policymakers themselves. This bill has progressed in a positive direction, but we do respectfully want to highlight just two concerns that remain for us. First, we aren't a fan of the tiered system. Sorry. We think that it's arbitrary and it's just not tied to safety. We fully support clear, enforceable safety standards. Smoke detectors, egress, occupancy limits, they are essential and should apply to everyone. But this bill creates different regulatory tiers based on how many properties someone owns, drawing hard lines at thresholds like one property versus 10 without a clear connection to safety risk. We feel that a property is either safe or it isn't. That doesn't change based on how many properties an individual own. regulation should target behavior and safety, not create unnecessary barriers to entry. Second, this bill's all stick, no carrot. While it creates new statewide framework, it still allows municipalities the ability to restrict or even prohibit short-term rentals entirely through zoning. So operators are being asked to comply with additional layers of regulation and probably fees at the state and county level without any assurance that they can enter or continue operating short-term rentals in their community. That imbalance is a concern. If we're going to introduce statewide regulation, there should also be some level of consistency or protection for lawful operators. Otherwise, we're adding a burden without providing stability. So in closing, short-term rentals are already an important part of Pennsylvania's tourism economy, as you've heard from my fellow panelists. The question is not whether they should be
regulated. They should be. The question is whether we regulate them in a way that is clear, enforceable, fair, and balanced. We appreciate the work that has gone into this bill, and we stand ready to continue working together alongside you to get it right for our communities, for homeowners, and for those guests who rely on this option every day. Thank you for your time, and I'm happy to answer questions. Thank you. So Laura Chadwick. Oh, great. You're on. Great. Thank you so much.
Chairwoman, ranking member and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on House Bill 2303. My name is Laura Chadwick, and I serve as the President and CEO of the Travel Technology Association. Travel Tech is the voice of the travel technology industry, advocating for public policies that promote transparency, competition, and consumer choice. For over 25 years, Travel Tech has consistently advanced these values. Our members include online travel agencies, meta-search engines, short-term rental platforms, travel management companies, global distribution systems, and a growing number of early-stage travel tech startups. Many of our consumer-facing members are marketplace platforms that connect travel service suppliers and would-be travelers online, facilitating information sharing and e-commerce. In the travel industry, suppliers such as hotels, car rental companies, short-term rental owner-operators choose to provide information about their offerings on our members' platforms. platforms. Millions of consumers worldwide visit these sites to easily research travel options, compare offerings and book services. It is on these platforms where travel service providers directly compete, helping to keep travel more affordable and accessible for everyday Americans. The services that TravelTech member companies provide are not limited to just tourists, but importantly, they also extend to homeowners and state and local economies. In 2024, travel tech member company Airbnb alone generated $1.8 billion in economic contribution to Pennsylvania's GDP, supporting over 22,300 jobs and $500 million in host earnings. Nearly 9 million guest nights were recorded in the state. Behind these numbers are real Pennsylvanians. The average U short rental host earns approximately to per year from hosting For most this is supplemental income that helps cover a mortgage a medical bill or rising gas costs Doing so is a highly effective way to address ongoing affordability concerns plaguing Pennsylvanians and Americans across the country. Over 60% of hosts rent out their primary residence. The overwhelming majority, more than 95% of hosts, operate three or fewer listings. This is not a large commercial real estate industry. It is a network of individual Pennsylvania homeowners sharing their homes. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify on 23HB 2303, as well as for this committee's leadership on commissioning the Joint State Government Commission's recent study on the short-term rental market. Most of my remarks will be based on the study's findings compared to the bill at hand. Broadly, HB 2303 reflects several principles that Travel Tech supports. First, the bill recognizes that not all short-term rentals are the same. The distinction between homestays, small operators, and large commercial operators is critical. Second, the bill preserves local zoning authority. Third, the bill seeks to improve task compliance and transparency. These are constructive foundations. However, HB 2303, as drafted, goes significantly beyond the framework recommended by the Commonwealth's own study and risk creating unintended consequences. The Joint State Government Commission recommended that the Commonwealth establish clear definition and minimum guidelines for municipalities because, as the report states, quote, local zoning officials and elected officials have a better understanding of the nuances of each area within their jurisdictions and are more sensitive to the needs of their communities. House Bill 2303 instead establishes a comprehensive statewide regulatory system governing permitting, operations, data reporting, safety requirements, and enforcement. This risks replacing a flexible, locally tailored framework with a uniform system that may not reflect the realities of Pennsylvania's diverse communities. While the bill preserves zoning authority, it establishes a detailed statewide requirement for how short-term rentals must operate, creating a system in which local governments retain authority over where the short-term rentals operate, but the state dictates how they must operate. The Commission's report recognizes that short-term rentals play a meaningful role in supporting Pennsylvania's tourism economy, generating tax revenue, and providing income opportunities for residents. At the same time, HB 2303 layers significant compliance costs onto an industry the report identifies as economically beneficial, without clearly calibrating those costs to demonstrated harms. As policymakers consider new regulatory frameworks, it is important to ensure that compliance costs and operational constraints do not unintentionally reduce supply, limit consumer choice, and limit local economies, particularly in regions that rely on tourism. The Commission's report cautions that the requirements appropriate for large commercial operators may be excessive for small or occasional hosts. While House Bill 2303 adopts a tiered framework, it still subjects all categories including homestays to a statewide permitting and compliance system that may be disproportionate to their level of activity The bill includes robust provisions related to data reporting and platform accountability While Travel Tech supports reasonable data sharing for tax compliance, the breadth of these requirements creates a complex compliance environment that should be more narrowly tailored. Again, thank you for the opportunity to testify on House Bill H-303. I appreciate the committee's leadership on this issue, and I would be pleased to answer your questions. Thank you very much.
Let's see. I have to announce that Representative Smith, Representative Cook, and Representative Taycac have all joined us. so that is one thing and then we can move on to the q a and representative powell you have questions
thank you so much chairwoman and thank you so much to all of our panelists um for their thoughtful um remarks on our bill uh one thing i do want to talk about since we've talked a little bit about this is the um different sections that we've allotted in the bill um just to for you know the body certification from the joint commission study, we've decided to distinguish different kind of sections of folks who own short-term rentals. So the first would be a homestay. That would be for someone who owns two or under Airbnbs or short-term rentals. A vacation home would be two and ten, and then a corporate ten plus. As said in some of the remarks, the majority of people own probably in the home stay or vacation. So most people own less than 10 properties that they rent out. We thought it was imperative to do this because of the study to ensure that folks who have more capacity to create different additions in their home, like some of the safety regulations we've talked about, are able to do that. It's a little different if its grandma renting out a room in her home for the big Penn State game, as we've talked about, which is also mentioned as an example in the study. Could you talk a little bit about, Yvonne, could you talk a little bit about the reasoning for these distinctions and why within your independent study you thought that that was important and imperative to include?
Part of the distinction with the tiers is the connection of the owner to the property. When you're renting out your principal residence or your summer vacation home, this is a place you live in. And this is a place that you have your neighbors and your relationships. And so those small properties, the owner is very connected to that particular property. When you get up to the 10 plus, those owners are not in residence in the home. They are not necessarily visiting the home on a regular basis. They don't have that connection to even notice, oh, hey, that light switch is flickering, and do I have a short somewhere versus a person who has a property management company that is overseeing from time to time So part of it is having the difference between an owner knowing their property knowing what going on in their property versus somebody who really owning an investment property and not having that kind of connection to the community or anything like that. And then part of it too was to try to achieve a balance between not pricing people out by not imposing extra higher insurance standards. The insurance standards is pretty much what you would normally have on your home versus a higher number for the more commercial. And that was part of it too, the distinction between a really private enterprise with a little side hustle going on versus a commercial enterprise, which some of them are. So it's trying to achieve that balance. And so I think part of this perspective on how much you think is intrusive for an individual with safety regulations and things like that. But fundamentally, you're going beyond your living in a place and your responsibility to your family and your non-paying guests like your cousin comes to visit or whatever versus what is a commercial endeavor, whether it's $14,000 a year or it's $100,000 a year. You're moving away from that private individual, I can do what I want with my own property, versus running a commercial business. So those were kind of our reasons.
Chair Warner. Thank you, Madam Chair. And again, I'd like to thank all our panelists for joining us today. That was very insightful information on a very important issue. So I do want to build off of the questions about the tier systems that were brought up. I mean, could you provide any examples of different safety standards that may be implemented between the different tiers?
probably the most fundamental is the um the need for um an annual inspection with the process um and i didn't write the legislation i just wrote the recommendation so the exact wording i'm not going to swear to. But the idea with, is that when you apply for your permit and you register with your municipality and you let them know that you're doing this, you present an inspection that you're up to code, that you're in compliance with the local health and safety requirements. And on those smaller scale things, it's less of a report or inspection versus the larger ones where you're asking them to have more detailed inspections, more detailed reviews, more consistent with some of the things we heard, which was why would a company that owns 12 STRs, that is... in a lot of ways, functioning kind of like a hotel, not being subjected to the same kinds of regulations that a hotel would be. So part of it was trying to level that playing field between the big companies, which are a distinct minority. There aren't a lot of them, but they do exist. And so we tried to lean towards being more gentle with the mom and pops, that it wasn't a highly expensive, onerous kind of process. But at the same time, saying, if you're going to do this and you're going to bring people in and charge them money, you have to take at least a minimal amount of responsibility.
Are there any specific standards?
I think I can follow on that because I know a couple and I've lived in both worlds. So one example, I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but in a homestay, there isn't a specific fire extinguisher requirement. Okay. Whereas in a larger one, you need to have a fire extinguisher in every room. There were things about cleaning standards that once you get to 10 or more properties, they were prescribing that you need to have an operational manual description of what your cleaning process is, would be an example that maybe a homestay wouldn't have to do. I think the larger properties, there was a requirement for an egress map, like on the back of the doors of a bedroom on how you're going to get out of the house. And while to say that these are acting as hotels in the sense that they're providing lodging, that is correct. But in a hotel, the reason for a lot of these safety standards would be because you've got a lot of people in a space sharing common hallways and that sort of thing. These are still at their heart private homes with three bedrooms. So, for instance, a 10-guest room bed and breakfast that probably has multiple hallways, maybe a little confusing, maybe an elevator, they do not have the requirement to put an egress map on the back of the doors. So that's just an example of I think it's super important to have safety standards. But truthfully, I mean, in your residential home, it's probably a good idea to have a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. I don't think some of those safety standards are legitimate across the board. I do appreciate the intent to try and not have onerous regulations on small people. I'd love to have not onerous regulations on anyone. Reasonable, fair, wise, protect the guests. Guests should have a level of assurance that I am just as safe in this short-term rental as I am staying in a Marriott courtyard. And that's why, I mean, you know what you're in for at a Marriott courtyard, a Holiday Inn Express or a Marriott Marquis. You know what you have. Every single bed and breakfast is different. Every single short-term rental is different. And that's why regulations are important. Thank you for that.
And I just have one follow-up. I know there's other people that have questions for sake of time. I do have one follow-up, though. As far as the tier system, is there any – is it accounted for how many stays a property may have per year? Say maybe there's an owner that only has one or two properties, so they're on the lower end of the tier, right? Is there any different standard for that property owner that only has one or two properties that maybe a state college might be a good example that you only have you know seven eight eight weekends out of the year for football right Is there any distinction between that as far as a property owner that only has one or two properties that has stays all the time, multiple stays the majority of the year? Because to me, that may seem like it would be a little bit of a distinction of safety standards as far as you have that homeowner living there almost full time and renting it out. I mean, I know people that do that, that rent their homes out just for weekends during football games, as opposed to someone that has that property specifically for short term, for renting out, right? It is probably not a bad idea.
one of the things we did was take a more general kind of overview and like the distinction between under 10 and over 10, totally arbitrary, but it seems to be the standard where people are doing regulations. I personally think if you own 10 vacation rentals, you've gone beyond sharing my home and my vacation home and my cabin and maybe my farm to running a commercial enterprise. But those seem to be the standards, and so I've kind of defaulted to those, but there are some that do provide regulation based not only on the number of properties but the length of stay, And that is something that probably could be considered, I don't want to talk for Representative Powell, but maybe something you do want to amend in to distinguish that some more. But what we try to do is just give a general overview that you should be able, yes, frequency. Frequency is a big part of that too.
And then finally, as far as the hotel tax collection, I know that locally it has been an issue for collection. What does this bill do? Does this bill do anything as far as?
So, anyone who, well, so again, there's maybe the difference between someone who already has a permit and people who are working in places without a permit. But regardless of your permit, if you are on the Airbnb platform, VRBO platform, they are collecting and submitting your state and local hotel tax. Now, the owner may not be in compliance because you still need to file with your county to show that you don't owe them any money. It's been paid by Airbnb. So as long as someone's not taking direct bookings, if you are taking direct bookings, maybe you took money from your Uncle Sal's best friend for the football weekend and he paid you cash. you would owe the hotel tax, then you would pay separately. But in the current framework, in the current structure of short-term rental operations, hotel tax is being collected and submitted. Airbnb, I believe, started doing that a few years ago when it was becoming an issue that owners were not collecting and remitting. And so they put that policy in to do that. But you still have the people who aren't using those platforms. And again, when you have so many mom and pops, maybe they're not putting it on on VRBO or Airbnb and they're putting it in. Maybe the county tourism bureau newsletter or something So I can give you a number on how much of a problem it is but I think Rebecca's right that it's more isolated to the people who are not using those big platforms.
Well, I'll add to that if I can, Representative Chairman Warner. We're concerned in State College that we're trying to measure what's the amount of evasion that is going, tax evasion that is going on when somebody uses the Airbnb platform one year and then to go to a foot to stay at an Airbnb at a football game. And then the owner says to the guest, why don't you just pay me directly next time? We know anecdotally that that is occurring frequently. that's a very difficult I've spoken to Will Taylor on your staff Representative Powell about that I think we both agree it's a very difficult problem to try to address but I think there's some significant tax evasion going on in that manner
Chairman Daley thank you very much Representative Powell thank you very much for bringing up the question I would be remiss if I couldn't just answer a few questions as well I mean specifically for the corporate rentals It's smoke detection services, carbon monoxide, a suggestion that came from Rebecca, as well as noise monitoring devices within the home to make sure that it's not too noisy for nearby neighbors, as well as exterior-only video surveillance, like a ring camera outside. The other thing, too, is we talked about Airbnb and Vrbo, but as the representative from Happy Valley talked about, we have a lot of listings on Craigslist and other kind of third-party sites. that we aren't getting those taxes from, and I wanted to make sure to raise that as well. It's a growing problem, harder to determine exactly how much we're missing, but anecdotally, and if you go to Craigslist or any of those other sites, you will see those short-term rentals listed there as well. Thank you, Chairman. Chairwoman Daly, if I may, just also comment on the Chairman's question.
Chairman, I think that's a great question. You know, we've explored this concept with our membership at PRLA, and many feel that in the legislation, the registry component specifically, and some of the data sharing that overlaps with that registry component, also paired with the platform accountability that's acknowledged in the legislation, moves the state in a productive direction as it comes to tax collection. And I, too, and I've talked to folks on this panel about this. I, too, anecdotally have crossed paths with folks that, you know, the platforms are doing a much better job and efficient job these days of collecting and remitting that tax due to legislative changes back in 2019 and even prior to that. However, to Representative Powell's point, we've heard anecdotally of folks moving off the platforms, not even just Craigslist, but even these days you can search for short-term rentals on Facebook, on Instagram, on TikTok, and in many cases word of mouth. And I think the data sharing and the registry component paired with the platform accountability helps the state start moving in a more productive direction there. I also want to acknowledge, I very much appreciate the statistics presented by Airbnb regarding, you know, how many folks may be operating more or less than three short-term rentals. We've tried to explore this subject as well, and it's been hard to find data on that, but of course appreciate the statistics Airbnb shared. What I find interesting about all of that is we not aware of a mechanism that the state has to get at that data which I think is very important because well again appreciate the statistics Airbnb is sharing Not everybody uses that platform. And the state has, of course, a very good handle on how many hotels are operating, how many rooms they're booking, how demand might fluctuate from season to season. But right now, and maybe some other panelists might have an answer for this, we're not aware of a mechanism that the state would have to account for how many folks might have one short-term rental. I've seen in Philadelphia there are entire condo units where one owner might have multiple condo units. Now, that might not exist in a rural area, but it certainly exists in places like Philadelphia. Allegheny County might exist in the future. And I think this bill helps move the state in a more productive direction where we'll get a better handle of that data. And I would imagine it would probably align with much of the data that was shared today, but I do find it interesting that the state doesn't have that despite having that sort of information regarding traditional lodging properties.
Rep. Cooper, do you have questions?
Thank you, Chairman. To Laura and Rebecca, is there a state that exists today that you would recommend the law that they have in place that you think is the gold standard?
Yeah, as a matter of fact, Idaho and Florida both have regulations that balance safety of guests with property owner rights. So in those states, I think one of the fundamental things they do is across the state, they acknowledge a person's right to do what they want to with their property. I own a property if I want to rent it short-term, long-term, live in it, let my cousin stay there every weekend. And if a local municipality wants the only regulation that can be placed on that property is related to safety, and that regulation would apply to all residential or all similarly zoned units. So we feel that that's much more fair and geared towards safety. It ensures safety of guests and safety of communities. It allows the local municipalities to regulate safety and security rights, but not property owner rights.
Thank you. I quite agree on the safety front. But I do want to point out that state legislation, local legislation is very much based on the desires of the community there, right, that reflects their values. And in Pennsylvania, you have many, quite a few towns that have crafted their own ordinances regarding short-term rentals that reflect the needs and the desires of the local community. and that's a really important component of any local, city-level, or state-level legislation. And then just a follow-up, please. So if you, you know, I know folks who might, for instance, Oakmont has the golf outing, And the Gulf Association puts restrictions on if you want to be a rental, right, you have to have sheets, you have to have this, you have to have that. How would this law impact if there was an association that said you had to be the clearinghouse for offering a short-term rental for that event? Is there, would this cause a problem with that? I do not have information
on that, but we are happy to come back to you with an answer that we are able to determine.
And then if you, you know, as you mentioned, the data shows one person, right, typically might have a household. It was 70%. You know, what if they want to give their house for free for friends? And then how is that impacted? How are you impacted by the law?
I think that that's something that people could do. It's kind of an interesting quirk that if I have a house and I want to let my relatives stay in it all year long, there's a different person staying in that house every single week for 52 weeks a year. That's okay, as long as I don't take money from them. So it's same behavior, different applicability, which is, I mean, it's just how it is.
I think just quickly to answer your question, like the Gulf Association and stuff, I think that would probably come down to a contract. If you're contracting with that association, then basic contract law would apply, and it would be outside of this. You would have the basics that everybody is complying to, but then the association that you're engaging with for this particular event, I think would fall under contractual law, and it would be what you agreed to do to be part of that list serve.
I know my daughter is a graduate student, and when she's looking at accommodation off campus, they have a listing of properties and owners that have met minimum standards that the university has established for the students to know who they're renting from. So I think that's the kind of thing that occurs frequently, and it's more a basic contractual kind of arrangement.
And, Representative, I will add on your first question. The way we look at our perspective on the legislation that's been introduced, this kind of establishes minimum standards. And I'm not an attorney, but from what I understand, there are many regions and counties and municipalities throughout the Commonwealth that probably already meet these minimum standards. In fact I believe much of the legislation and much of the recommendations that were made by the Joint State Government Commission are based off of some model standards especially in places like Monroe County Philadelphia Allegheny that I would imagine in many ways if not always are already compliant with much of this legislation. On the second question that you asked, I will note just for this committee's awareness, and I'm sure, forgive me, that you probably know much of this already, and again, not an attorney, but the courts right now in Pennsylvania, as I understand it, are examining how complementary rooms ought to be treated. And I think there's a case out of Luzerne County that's being examined right now as it relates to complementary rooms that are provided to guests, obviously, at no charge. And I imagine there's going to be some appeals, and that's going to continue to work its way through litigation. But I expect the courts to probably offer some opinions on that in the near future.
Thank you so much. Rep. Techke.
I'm right here, Chairwoman. Thank you. I'm moving around on you. Sorry about that. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. As Mr. Smith was mentioning, Center County is in kind of a unique situation, and that it's very much a destination, and it's periodic. We have a large university there. When I served in local government, this became a really significant issue. It isn't just about quality of life, by the way, although it certainly is that. When you have absentee owners from out of town who buy investment properties, it erodes neighborhood cohesion. It detracts from that. It's certainly different from somebody renting out the basement to a graduate student, for example, for a year. This is on a regular basis. There's large events that bring a lot of people in. There are significant safety and just quality of life concerns. But there's one other element that I really want to point out. One of our biggest challenges is housing and housing affordability. And it's a significant economic and quality of life issue in our community. And so when we looked at this as local government, we were very cognizant of the fact that a lot of pricing was being driven by speculation from out-of-town capital that were driving up housing costs. It's virtually unaffordable in our community to own a home or build our community. So you know I think that another element that we need to take into account when we talk about this in terms of allowing the local communities the latitude to be able to make determinations about the kind of community that they want to foster particularly in those situations where you got some really significant economic drivers that are moving in this direction So I welcome any comments or thoughts on that I can start out It looks like you have something to say as well Zach I think that obviously there are a lot of factors that go into housing affordability
and this is a case where, again, the fact that we're a commonwealth and you've got small municipalities, townships, boroughs, different mechanisms at work. I mean, we have the cost of supply. Supply, you know, national tariffs probably have an impact. The fact that communities in general don't like trailer parks. Now a whole ton of affordable housing went away. The fact that the elderly live longer and they stay in their homes. They don't have to go to nursing homes anymore. They can stay in their homes for another 20 years. That's a bunch of housing that's not put back into the system for entry-level homes for people. But insofar as clearly short-term rentals, sometimes in cities more so than in rural communities, it can have varying degrees of impact, and I think that's where local regulations maybe play a role. In the Poconos, for instance, most of these vacation rental properties were built as just that, second homes. They're in lakefront amenity communities. They are off the beaten track. They're on crazy roads to get to. You know, half hour to the local grocery store. These don't make for good primary residences. You know, places that don't really have basements, attics, garages, or enough closets or pantries. You know, they're meant to be lived in on a short-term basis. So while there still should be a conversation about housing and we should do whatever we can to participate in that, What we find is most short-term rentals, if you didn't allow short-term rentals, it might not get rented at all.
If I might, too. I mean, we're talking about an established community, year-round community versus what you're describing, which is more of a short-term or an intentional vacation bill, right? But one thing I did neglect to mention, and I do want to point this out just for the sake of everyone listening, we also found that the ability to rent for a football game weekend or something significantly contributed to the income of a family that allowed them to afford the home in the first place. So you're balancing those two things, but I think it really is driving for a whole host of reasons. Quite a crisis, actually, in housing, not only in our community, but across our commonwealth. Representative, I think your comments are spot on across the board, and I'm by no means a housing expert. But I do know this conversation in addition to being a conversation here with the House Tourism Recreation Economic Development Committee I know the initial resolution that tasked the Joint State Government Commission with exploring this was also in the House Housing and Community Development Committee as well I could share with you just anecdotally, for instance, my little brother lives up in the Pocono Mountains. He's been looking for a home for months, and before he even gets to an open house, He is somebody who has already bidded on that property who just did so off of Zillow from New York or California before he even had an opportunity to look at the property. And so I think the housing conversation is a significant part of this conversation. I think you're spot on with your comments, and Rebecca as well, about finding balance. But I think House Bill 2303 just moves us in a more productive direction where the state has the access to more information, more data, and just a better look, a better aerial view at what truly is happening in our local regions throughout the Commonwealth. And then while still allowing local government and local townships and municipalities to decide what they want to do with that data. But I think you're spot on with those comments. I think that's an important part of this conversation.
I think we're going to wrap up this meeting. I want to thank everyone. I would like to thank the members who were here and had questions. I would like to thank all of you for being with us. I thought it was really interesting and really helpful in hearing your feedback. So I'm sure that we'll be having future conversations to see, you know, how it moves forward. But I also really acknowledge the work that Representative Powell and her staff have done, and my staff also, because they've been really working together. So thank you so much. And we're actually going to be able to go be in a picture. It's like this is what life is like sometimes for state representatives, if you ever wonder. like oh what do they do up there it's full of all different kinds of things so even what you wear Thank you.