March 25, 2026 · GAME AND FISHERIES · 2,455 words · 27 speakers · 41 segments
Thank you. Thank you. Good morning. Good morning. I'd like to call this meeting of the House Game and Fisheries Committee to order. Erin, please take a roll call. Chair Kulik. Here.
Rep. Davison. Designation here.
Doherty. Designation here.
Gangenauer. Designation here.
Rep. Gents. Designation here.
Oh, is here. Oh, sure.
Oh. Hello, Rep.
Rep Haddock.
Rep Harris. Designation here.
Rep Holenstein. Designation here.
Rep Inglis. Designation here.
Rep Kazim. Designation here.
Rep Mirsky. designation here I'm online I'll be there in thank you rep Rusnik
designation here she's online thank you rep still designation here and rep young designation here
Okay. Chair Maloney? Here. Rep. Anderson?
Designation.
Rep. Banta?
Rep. Cook? Present.
Rep. DeVanzo? Designation.
Rep. Kerwin?
Rep. Kuzma? Here.
Rep. Labs?
Rep. Olsummer.
Rep. Reichert. Designation.
Rep. Smith.
Rep. Whitling.
We have a quorum. Thank you for the information of the members. We will be going over House Bill 2294 today. the chair now calls up house bill 1950 pin number 3005 from representative mahafi
paul would you read a summary of the bill please yes this legislation would amend title 34 game of the pennsylvania consolidated statutes to allow the pennsylvania game commission to direct that hunters be permitted to lawfully hunt any snow goose during the snow goose conservation season using a semi-automatic or magazine-fed shotgun without regard to the two-shell magazine capacity when deemed appropriate by the Commission.
Those in favor of reporting the bill as committed will vote aye. Representative Mahaffey, would you please come up?
Good morning. Chair Kulik, Chair Maloney, members and guests of this great committee. thank you for bringing 1950 to light. This is something that I've been working on for a couple years. It happens to be something that's near and dear to my heart because I hunt snow geese. I had the opportunity this year to invite Representative Kerwin with me this year, and after we ran into a flock of snow geese, he goes, now I understand why this bill is so important. So this bill really does one thing and one thing only, and it does remove the plug in conservation season only. Okay? Let's make that clear. Conservation snow geese season only. Over the years, we have found out, and this is something that Mother Nature will do, and she is doing it right now, they are large carriers of the avian flu. The mid-flyway and the Atlantic flyway, they're finding tens of thousands of dead snow geese up and down the coast and, of course, in the mid-Atlantic. This is something that started years ago. It's gotten progressively worse. It has definitely, if you look at their migration and what happens during their migration, they are coming up through during the times when we're seeing high path in our areas and our farms. high path is spread pretty easily. And it seems to me that when we look at this, we're seeing it, you know, the infectious times during conservation snow geese season. Now, you understand there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of geese that come into Middle Creek. It's beautiful. It's a great scenery. If you've never been there, please go. But there's a lot of hunters around there. And this is a way to harvest the animals. This is a way to keep down the flocks. This is a way to allow what other states do and meet the federal guidelines, what we do now. Now, we implemented years ago, there's other things that were done to help with this, and this is mechanical decoys mechanical calls other things like that This state did not implement this particular one but this would put us in line with the federal guidelines This would be something that we can that the game commission then once we would pass it then they would implement and they would vote on and put it in their regs. So, is there any questions? We're going to get to that if you want to wait, please. I know you have to be somewhere else. I wanted to get you at least in to get your summary done.
Right now, the question is, will the committee report the bill? Chairman Maloney is offering amendment A-02721. Will the committee agree to that amendment? On that question, Griffin, will you please read a summary of the amendment?
Thank you, Chair. Amendment A-02721 would disallow the Game Commission from enforcing federal taxidermy law as it relates to preexisting taxidermy birds.
And is there any debate or questions on the bill? Any from your members? Representative Haddock?
Just a couple questions, I guess. So currently, federal law governs the taxidermy laws of possession of preexisting gay parts. Is that correct?
Chair Maloney, I'll defer to you on the answers to your amendment. So, Representative, one of the reasons why this is great discussion with respect to the underlying bill is because of the conflict with state versus Fed. And because we have an issue where Title 34 has a certain provision, but yet game wardens, who I won't call anybody out, but have talked to me many times about their conflict with enforcing federal law. And to your point, these are these are federal migratory birds that fall under federal jurisdiction. So the whole problem that a lot of these fellows have, including the up and coming or the past auctions that take place, are when state game wardens or law enforcement come into an auction and sort of hinder the auction because there are migratory birds being auctioned off, which many of the law enforcement have a problem with because this is a U.S. Fish and Wildlife issue more so, especially with the enforcement, than it is game commission. I hope that helps. Well, a couple of questions there. So it is federal law that governs this. That was my first question. Okay. And even though it's federal law, and federal law only governs, if I have it right, migratory birds, correct? Correct. this amendment talks about every game species bird does it not excuse me a second so So I didn't bring up the actual verbiage at this point, but yes, to your question, this is broader. The problem is that because this is migratory bill and this is migratory bird issue, we were sticking to the point that we shouldn't be interacting with the federal law enforcement. That's all it is, is to check that balance. well again I don't know this is written for all birds even birds that are mounted in Pennsylvania controls so here's a question for you hypothetically I'm hunting or not me somebody else and they wipe out a flock of turkeys and they quickly run and get them traxidermist and this is a pattern and there's an ongoing investigation So you're saying once a bird that's shot illegally, a turkey in Pennsylvania that's shot illegally, this bill would say, oh, once you taxidermist it, police, and in this case our game commission, officers could not use that bird and seize that bird in evidence. This would hinder an ongoing investigation. If that bird's taken illegally, a flock of birds is taken illegally, turkeys, this bill would say once you're taxidermist it, case over. You're exonerated. Let me have it read to you. With that example, the taxidermy can't be the sole evidence. You would need something more to determine that a crime had been committed. You can't just say you have a lot of taxidermy turkeys. We think that you were poaching them. I don't think that our game commission would just do that. I think there would be an ongoing investigation from witness accounts, through multiple shooting during turkey seasons. And that turkey was shot. Many turkeys were shot illegally. This bill or this amendment would say once an illegal turkey is taxidermist, case over. You cannot seize it. That's your opinion, and I'm not speaking for a game warden or whatnot. Well, it's not my opinion. It's the way this is written. It's pretty straight English. Actually, once it's taxidermied, you cannot seize the bird. you cannot seize them out this bill is dangerous it's impeding law enforcement's power to exercise their duties and many times in this committee we say and I've heard it said I'm for the law enforcement not the commission I've heard that said here now we're interfering with an ongoing investigation Any further comments? All right. Those in favor of the amendment will vote aye. Those opposed, no. The secretary will take the roll call.
Chair Kulik? No.
Rep Davidson Rep Doherty Rep Gungenauer Designation no Rep Gents No. Rep. Haddock. Rep. Harris. Designation, no. Rep. Hohenstein. Rep. Inglis. Designation, no. Rep. Kazim. Designation, no. Rep. Mirsky. Rep. Rusnick. Designation, no. Rep. Steele. Designation, no. And Rep. Young. Designation, no. Chair Maloney. Yes. Rep. Anderson. Designation, yes. Rep. Banta. Rep. Cook. Rep. DeVanzo. Designation, yes. Rep. Kerwin. Rep. Kuzma. Designation, yes. Rep. Labs. Rep. Old Summer. Rep. Reichert. Designation, yes. Rep. Smith. And Rep. Wendling. Fails.
All right. The amendment fails. On the bill, is there any debate on the bill? chair maloney yeah thank you i uh i appreciate this bill i been a goose hunter for a long time um a couple clarifications i'd like i'd like to uh make with respect to um the history if you will and i think it goes to the point about what I was attempting to bring light of when it comes to federal versus the state. This has been, in the sportsman's world, something they looked at for many, many years as a federal reg and didn't really pay attention to what the state had done. So in many cases, not to sort of rat anything out, But the whole idea about this was that this was a federally regulated bird and we are legally allowed to do this. So that's the position that many of them took, which did present a problem in court because if they were cited for this, it became the state law piece that made it illegal. So just to be clear, this has been going on for a long time, as you stated. But sportsmen have been caught in the middle of this for many, many times where they have felt that federal law superseded state. So I fully support the change. I always have. But I was trying to bring some irregularities to light. Thank you.
Repatic. Representative Mahaffey, thank you for this bill. And just a point of clarification. You kind of referenced that this bill has been around a while, and I've heard in the hallowed halls that this bill was attempted in this committee before and maybe has failed. Do you know the exact history of it? I don't know the history of the bill itself. I've been working with the Game Commission on this bill for a couple years, and we've been talking about different ways. And maybe it goes back to Chair Maloney, how we could do this without going through a legislative fix. That's not the case. So then that's what brought this to light as far as where we're going with it. I think, you know, I've even talked to Secretary Redding about the high path and what's going on and and how we can do and harvest correctly and and do the things we do as a state and and help out with what's this isn't. The thing is, this is multiple states doing this. So, again, it comes down to the federal guidelines allow them to do this during conservation season. And I think it's something we should do in Pennsylvania because we do most everything else that are in the federal guidelines to hunt these birds. So why not put this into place and move it forward? And just thank you for that explanation. And I have been in Middletown Creek, lucky enough to have a friend drawn. I was a guest. And we don't have, we're not in the northeast. We're really not in a snowbird flight. But when you see these flocks, anybody that's unaware, you're talking in many cases 2,000 birds or more. Yes. And the funnel is just absolutely beautiful, magnificent to see. So, yeah, unplugging a shotgun in a conservation mode is certainly something that is needed and called for. So I thank you for bringing this bill to light. Thank you. There's about 15,000 permits sold in the state right now. I think at the end of the day, I mean, that permit's, I can't, I think it was like $1.50. It's really nothing. But you do need one, okay, to hunt them. I think you need a migratory bird permit, too, with that. But at the same time, their overpopulation over the years has done more damage, not only with high path, but for where they lay their eggs in the Arctic and what is going on. And that's why you're not seeing the juveniles and the young coming down, because they have decimated not only their own species, but other migratory birds. So doing this and working with the feds on this and the things that are being done and said, and if you read on these, you'll see that this is something that really needs to be harvested correctly and managed better, and this is a way of doing that. Thank you.
Chair Maloney? Yeah, there is a point of that where some people don't realize the makeup of the snow goose compared to the Canada goose. The tundra that they destroy, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they actually have like teeth on the side of their beak. And because they can go in and destroy the tundra and when they hit vegetation, they rip it out. whereas a Canada completely is a different sort of a makeup when they hit a field or wherever. So there is a piece of this that is why I think it actually fits conservation in that respect, because they are much more aggressive than a Canada. I mean, I have them in my home. They're everywhere where I live, but, I mean, it's been that way for some time. But when they come and they hit vegetation, it's gone. So that is why there's also another piece to that that's very important. Thank you. Any other comments, questions? Will there be any negative votes on this bill Seeing none When the bill passes The bill will be reported as committed Thank you Thank you Representative Mahaffey There no further business before the committee. This meeting is adjourned.
Thank you. Thank you.