PA Senate Veterans Affairs and Emergency Preparedness — 2026-04-21

Sure. Thank you.

Baker.

Brooks.

Dush.

Kane.

Langerholt.

Muth.

Penny Cook is on personal leave.

Proxy.

Here.

Brock Z.

And here.

Thank you for your perseverance. So we were talking beforehand that you've been on top of this since 2018, before I was a senator.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You're right. This has been one of those things that we kept introducing, introducing, bring it back. And the whole idea behind it was protecting firefighters from PFAS foam. And literally, I don't remember how many different iterations we've introduced, but every two years we've introduced it since 2018. So we've gotten to the point with working with the firefighting community and the House of Representatives where we have these two bills that we both agree on. And I'm really pleased to be able to say that they're long overdue, which is an understatement. and it's something that addresses this serious health issue as it also affects emergency preparedness and firefighting. These bills, as I said, David, long history of collaboration and persistence in working with firefighters while ensuring that the departments can safely transition to a different product. But moving these bills out of committee underscores a shared commitment to those who serve and protect our communities across the Commonwealth. One of the things, and just a little bit of a side, my understanding is one of the replacement foams or a replacement for PFAS foam is made from soybeans. So that may help the ag community also. But what these bills do, and I'll talk to Senate Bill 980, prohibits manufacturing, selling, or distributing this Class B firefighting foam containing PFAS. It prohibits the use of firefighting foam containing PFAS by a firefighting entity beginning. the original bill was in January the 1st, 2027, but I understand there's some amendments to that time period, which I have no problem with. Creates some exceptions that allow for the use of Class B firefighting foam containing PFAS chemicals if their use is required by federal law. It exempts certain facilities such as airports, chemical plants, oil refineries, So PFAS foam, unfortunately, is, especially for aircraft-type fires, is probably second to none as far as use and suppression. So we have created some exceptions in order to take advantage of that. One of the things that we've also put in these bills is additional duties on the Office of the State Fire Commissioner to assist firefighting entities in transition. We've also directed them to work with DEP as far as transportation, storage, disposal of existing PFAS foam, which firefighting entities may have in their possession. We've also amended the, this bill will amend the fire grant program to admit or allow grants through the Office of the State Fire Commissioner to be used for disposal, transportation, that type of thing to get rid of the PFAS chemicals and to purchase replacement-type firefighting foams. So it's a lot packed into this bill. It's not what I originally started with. Originally, it was just to prevent firefighters from using it for practice. Some firefighters have told me that what they used to do with it was they would spray each other with it, because I don't know what it does. I haven't seen it, but it was fun to then fall down and have this foam on you and everything. Well, little did they know that it's a carcinogenic, which now everybody talks about PFAS in a lot of other settings. But we want to focus on this setting and protect firefighters. So with that, I respectfully ask for an affirmative vote. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks for joining us. Thank you very much for having me. Very good to see you, Senator. Chairman Messrano, Chairman Muth, and distinguished members of this committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today regarding House Bill 1261. This legislation addresses a type of environmental devastation that has not only decimated, I'll say that again, decimated the water supply in my district, but has fundamentally altered the lives of families throughout my community, including my own. So you actually, Senator, when you were just telling that story, I was also a firefighter and a police officer. In addition to using it for fire training and things of that nature, we actually was an EFAR constructor. So we used to teach police officers how to drive quickly but safely. And one of the things that we would use in order to be able to simulate slippery road conditions was that foam. So you can imagine the different avenues that these things were used in. I'd also, by the way, I'd like to thank the chairs of the Veterans Affairs Committee in the House, Chairman Solomon and Chairman Gillum. Gillum spoke very passionately on the House floor when this was up for debate. But rather than reading the technical specifics of this bill that's before you, I want to share the history that brings me into this room today. In 2015, when I was first elected to the Board of Supervisors in Warminster Township, I was brought into a room and I was shown a map of my community. And on that map were about 30 to 50 colored thumbtacks. There was a dense circle of red surrounded by a large patch of yellow and then some sporadic green. At the time, the EPA had recently established a health advisory standard for PFO, PFA. the result of our local testing were pinned to that board. But what those red thumbtacks couldn't tell you was the sheer severity of the crisis that we were facing. At that time, out of all the testing that was performed nationwide, three of the most contaminated wells in the entire United States were located right there in my hometown of Warminster. The source was the Naval Air Warfare Center, which is a facility that operated in our backyard since 1941 right there in Warminster. We found PFO-PFO concentrations as high as 24,000 parts per trillion off base and a staggering 300,000 parts per trillion on the site itself. Overnight our community lost access to the public wells that provided affordable drinking water to 50 residents And to this day we must pipe water in from other communities a necessity for which every one of my constituents pays a literal price, an added cost. This was the result of decades of firefighter foam being sprayed on aircraft during training drills, but the true damage is not measured in utility rates or infrastructure costs. The real damage is measured in the health of the families who grew up in my district, people like my wife who was raised in this district in Warminster. It is measured in the staggering number of families who have been devastated by cancer diagnoses. In every neighborhood I visit, there is a story of a cancer cluster. I have shared on the House floor that on my own street, nine families in a small radius, a very small radius, have recently faced cancer diagnoses, and I'm sad to report that two of my good neighbors have recently passed away. I, too, have been diagnosed with cancer, not once, but twice. Now, can we prove with absolute scientific certainty that every one of these cases is a direct result of forever chemicals. Maybe, maybe not. But I can tell you that the fear that these families have lived with for the last 11 years is very, very real. By taking action on this bill today, you're helping the Commonwealth ensure that the tragedy that we endured in towns like Warminster, Warrington, and Ivyland does not become a reality for other Pennsylvania communities. Thank you to Chairs Mastriano and Muth and the entire committee for your time and consideration of this vital step forward. Thank you very much.

Senator Yaw. I just have one clarifying question, and you said this, Senator Yaw, but I want to make sure I understood. In the bill language, it indicates that there's certain provisions that would be exempted. So an exempt facility, which is defined as I understand the airport part. So are the chemical plant, oil refinery or flammable or natural gas terminal storage facility or distribution facility. are those all under the federal exemption or the requirement to still use the foam? Or is it only some of those?

And that's by the federal government or just the bill?

Okay. And so the airport is the one that's required by the federal government.

I just wanted to verify. Okay. Thank you.

Senator Brooks seconds the amendment.

Moose seconds it. Thank you. Are there any questions on this amendment? Are there any

and remove PFAS. I move it, Senator Dush, seconds the amendment. Are there any questions on this

Brooks seconds the amendment. Are there any questions on this amendment?

amendment? Are there any negative votes on this amendment? Seeing none and hearing none,

amendment. Are there any negative votes on this amendment? Seeing none and hearing none,

Thank you.

Are we doing that?

I have Amendment A-02987, which makes several long overdue increases and updates to the fire and EMS loan program. The amendment includes the language of Senate Bill 457, which passed out of our committee unanimously over a year ago last March and hasn't been moved, but this amendment would at least get some of that in there. It's been over six years since the program was updated, and at the time the actual cost to secure adequate facilities and equipment needed by our first responders are certainly much higher now than the current maximum loan amount, leaving our fire departments and EMS providers with massive shortfalls in funding for vital life-saving resources. Again, this amendment will make much-needed increases to the maximum loan amount for all the eligible loan categories and will also allow the Office of State Fire Commissioner to offer a 20-year loan for loans between $500,000 and $300,000 and a 30-year loan for any loan in excess of $300,000. It also requires that beginning January 1, 2028, the fire commissioner annually updates the loan amounts to reflect inflation as opposed to every two years, which is currently required by law. And lastly, as we just a few minutes ago, the amendments to Senate Bill 980 and House Bill 1261. of 61. This amendment also requires that any protective equipment obtained through the loan program must meet standards adopted by the fire commissioner to ensure that the protective equipment does not contain PFAS. So we have PFAS foam and then we also have firefighter equipment that some of the materials contain PFAS. So we want to get rid of that. And I ask my colleagues for affirmative vote. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,

Thank you, and thank you to the chairs, Chairwoman Muth, as well as Chairman Mastriano and the entire committee for your willingness to discuss this bill this morning. This bill, as you know, would exempt volunteer fire and EMS non-governmental agencies from the requirements of the Commonwealth's right-to-know law. Under current law, our frequently small and overextended volunteer fire and EMS companies are subject to the same requirements as large state agencies. For organizations that are already stretched thin, and many of which have unpaid employees, this proves to be exceptionally difficult and time-consuming to comply with such requirements. These burdens range from the development and publication of meeting agendas to the need for legal support and the costs associated with such assistance. I know this stress is felt by companies within my district. I've heard it firsthand. In fact, this legislation was brought forward by our countywide EMS director and supported by many of the fire chiefs from the volunteer companies throughout Berks County. And I feel it's our duty as legislators to provide our first responders with the tools necessary to focus on doing the most critical aspect of their jobs, saving lives, not copying papers. And while it's important to note that I have also heard from many of these organizations their emphasis on supporting transparency and how public funds are spent in the delivery of public services, it should be noted that borough and township code requires that these funds are accounted for prior to a future year allocation being made. As such, any records are available through the local government unit that allocated such funds, which the public can and should be able to access. With that, I again thank the chairs for their attention to this issue and ask for support in finally working towards instituting legislative changes recommended to this body in Senate Resolution 6 of 2018,

Senator Dusch, thank you.

Chairwoman Muth.

I am going to be voting against this bill today. I understand the intention of the bill in alleviating some of those added administrative pressures that our first responders have to manage and deal with in the time constraints. I don't think that they should be exempted from the provisions of the right to know law. I've heard some of the arguments about how funding from local governments will still be accessible, as Senator Schwenk just said, through the local government entity. I have a letter from the Borough Association, and they're saying sometimes it's hard to get those records. So I think that if public funds are used, they should be publicly accessible and subject to the right to no law. And this information isn't just important for the public, but also, again, those local government officials when deciding how to allocate resources for public safety. And the bill is also for the reasons of gutting transparency opposed by the ACLU and the Pennsylvania State Association of Boroughs. Again, information about public funds expended by our volunteer organizations should be made available to the public. And I understand, again, the administrative burden, but I think exempting them completely from the right to no law doesn't, doesn't, I don't think that is necessary. I think we could find a different way, or maybe we have fully paid emergency responders, and we wouldn't have to deal with this, but I will be voting in the negative. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sure, I'd like to respond to that in part anyway, that I understand those concerns, and I've seen examples of things such as this. What I'm hopeful is if we can get this moving at least through committee, And then amendments can be made that will help to make sure that that information is made available and that boroughs, local government, whether it's a borough or township, does have the full right to access the reports and the allocation of funds, the expenditures, so that they can adequately respond to any requests from the public. The idea is not to be not transparent, but it certainly is when you consider some of the small fire companies that we have and EMS companies as well, how difficult it is for them to respond to paperwork. They have enough, as it is, and there's more. But I'm hopeful that we could look at some different language as we go forward. Thank you.

Yes, thank you, and I appreciate Senator Schwenk's response because we have so many fire companies that are looking at merging or reducing or even shutting down simply because they don't have the personnel available adding that burden onto them. When the public funds, the boroughs, the townships that are giving those funds to those fire companies, they have the ability to withhold the funds in order to get the information. So that's the stick that those municipal governments have. Adding an additional layer, and people know that I'm all for transparency, and I've been fighting for a lot of things for opening up the books. but this is one area where you are dealing with folks who are coming in on a volunteer basis and already overworked with the amount, as people in this space already know, the Firefighter 1 training requirements and everything else. It's tough as a volunteer to hold down a full-time job or sometimes two and still be a fireman. So I appreciate the bill and thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Repeatedly, most people in this building continue to talk about how we need to help our firefighters. Yet, so often, meaningful legislation is stifled in one chamber or another. And through regulations or fundraising or paperwork, our firefighters, especially volunteer, they have a second full-time job in trying to raise money, fill out paperwork, meet the regulatory burden that has been placed on them. And I think everyone needs to pause and say, what happens when our fire departments disappear? What does that look like? What does that do to our communities? So this is an effort to try and help our volunteer firefighters. And most certainly, I think everyone in this room believes in transparency. But there are ways to protect that transparency with the paperwork, through the boroughs, and if it's asked, with the departments. And I think most certainly we need to move this legislation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Dush? Aye.

Langerholt? Proxy, aye.

I don't know, sorry.

Piscatana?

Williams?

Proxy, aye.

And aye.

I appreciate you calling this bill up for a vote, and Chair Muth, members of the committee, Senator Brooks, for your work on this issue as well. This bill will reclassify 911 workers as first responders, and importantly, I'll note, adds no cost to taxpayers. They're currently classified, I was surprised to find out, as administrative or clerical workers, which simply does not reflect the work that they do. Routinely dealing with suicidal individuals, shootings, emergencies, and crisis situations of all kinds. Often while staying on the line to walk callers through immediate steps while waiting for help to arrive on site. 911 workers are the first to respond in a crisis, and as a matter of workplace dignity, they deserve full recognition for their role in providing life-saving instructions over the phone and ensuring emergency services reach callers safely. This new classification will elevate the jobs prestige and help boost recruitment and retention, while allowing workers to negotiate for better wages and benefits like resources for employee mental health. And during federal emergencies, being classified as first responders can allow telecommunicators to qualify for the same federal benefits as other first responders, while again adding no additional cost to the Commonwealth. Today, I'm asking committee members for a yes vote, and I want to thank everyone again for their consideration. Thank you so much,

Chairman. Thank you, Representative Benham. As the chairman mentioned, Senator Brooks and I earlier this session introduced the same legislation and it's also the same languages amendments that I've offered and glad to have bipartisan support on a bill. Maybe you can tell us who we can talk to to have our bills run concurrently like the other two guys at the beginning. But it is an important piece of legislation and want to thank Rep Benham for making sure that it gets passed in some form or fashion. So thank you.

Being a 911 dispatcher is most certainly an underappreciated job. Imagine that you answer on the phone on the other end is a small child whose parent is having a heart attack or something is happening to that parent and that dispatcher is trying to not only calm that child, but also to get relevant information. Imagine on the other line of the phone, someone that is having a heart attack and that dispatcher is trying to, again, get relevant information while calming that person. Or imagine a terrible crime happening and someone is reporting that crime. They are on the first line of defense for so many terrible, terrible stories that could turn out tragically, but yet so often they're heroes because they are able to impact that situation. So this legislation is very, very relevant. For anyone that questions the need for this legislation, I would urge them to tour a 911 center to witness firsthand the stress and the sense of urgency that these dispatchers incur every single day. And I would urge an affirmative vote. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Chairman. In the Air Force, we have what's called desk sergeants. They are basically the 911 center for the military installations. You've got some 30,000 people on a military installation. It's just like a small city with the number of incidents that occur. And I've done that work, and I've also – I have a good relation across seven counties with my first responders. But when you're sitting there and you're hearing somebody, if they're in a burning building or something like that, they're trapped, they can't get out, and then you listen to that person dying while you are helpless on the other end of that phone call. the trauma that you're going through in helping to navigate that person through and you're hearing those last breaths and the agony that's on the other end of that phone call the helplessness that is there they're they suffer some tremendous psychological problems and they've got to deal with it. And this is a necessary piece of legislation. And again, as Senator Brooks said, if anybody wants that question, why, it's that that's why. And I thank you for bringing it up.

that we are running your bill. And I know my colleagues, Senator Brooks and Senator Muth, have worked on this for a long time, too. And I'm grateful for their work. This fix should have happened a long time ago, but I'm glad. However we have to get it to the governor's desk, I'm happy that we are here and we can get it over the finish line. Because admittedly, I was disappointed that we couldn't get 911 telecommunicators to find us first responders when we did the PTSI bill. But I'm so glad that we are correcting that now because they are first responders. And I've talked with them. I've toured their facilities. I think you were with me when we toured. I believe some of them are watching from Allegheny County right now. I've talked to them. I've talked to them after a really hard day. I've talked to them about the calls that stick with them. I've talked to them where they shared their suicide ideation with me, with you, where they talked about how hard it was to just walk back into work after one of their colleagues died by suicide at work in the parking lot and how hard it was to go back in and pick up the phone. And you know what? They did it, and they do it every single day. As we said, last week was National Telecommunicators Week, and I can't think of a better way to honor them is to pass this bill today out of committee, recognizing them as first responders. Thank you for all the work you do, and I can't think of a better way to thank them to actually, you know, pass it on the floor and get it to the governor's desk sooner rather than later. So thank you for all of your work together to get this done.