Ohio House and Senate Select Committees on Data Centers - 6-4-2026

Here.

Senator Reinecke?

Senator Wilkin?

Senator Blackshear?

Representative Claggett?

Representative Workman?

Representative Glassburn?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I'm a Data Center and Energy Public Policy Manager at Meta. I'm here to share more about the essential infrastructure that supports our technology and services, our data centers. Over 3.5 billion people use our technologies and services across the world daily, including millions of residents and businesses in Ohio. In fact, an estimated 730,000 businesses in Ohio actively use Facebook alone. More than 97% of them being small and medium sized businesses. When people message a loved one, join a small business live stream, or access emergency information during a severe weather event, these actions wouldn't be possible without data centers operating 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. We have 28 data centers across the United States and we're proud to make these investments in America. I want to talk to you a little bit more about what that means in Ohio. There are many great things about Ohio. World-class workforce, strong business climate, exceptional community partners, and access to robust energy and other infrastructure. For those reasons, across our two data centers in Ohio, we have invested more than $10 billion in the state. These investments support hundreds of jobs, electricians, HVAC specialists, network technicians, engineers. These are careers, not just jobs. And also thousands of construction jobs. Skilled trade workers, many of whom are on the site for many years as we continue to expand these sites. And many other jobs and businesses across the state. Over the last six years, we've spent nearly $4 billion with Ohio-based companies who supply the products and services to support our operations. But more than the careers and businesses that they support, we want to be good neighbors, which includes paying for local infrastructure, new roads, water and grid infrastructure, adding new energy to the grid, supporting water restoration projects, and providing millions in community grants year after year. I want to talk a little bit about energy. Data centers use a lot of energy. And META is committed to not just consuming energy, we want to work to be the solution to grid constraints. Not only are we committed to paying our full costs, we are supporting the development of new supply. Since we broke ground in Ohio in 2017 we have supported more than 800 megawatts of new energy in Ohio And we partnering with energy companies to build onsite generation to support our infrastructure We recently significantly upsized our commitment to adding energy, announcing agreements to support 6.6 gigawatts of nuclear energy nationally, with half of those gigawatts being supported right here in Ohio. Our agreement with Vistra supports more than 2.1 gigawatts from the Perry and Davis-Bessie plants, and will increase their capacity by nearly 300 megawatts. We also have an agreement with OGLO to bring up to 1.2 gigawatts of advanced nuclear from small modular reactors to Southern Ohio, with the first phase targeted for 2030. These investments represent American jobs, help keep existing plants running, support new reliable energy, and bolster US energy independence. There's also a lot of talk about data center water use, and I want to put our water use into context. We aim to use water responsibly and invest in improving water supply and quality in the communities in which we operate. We've worked closely with the Northwestern Water and Sewer District and the City of New Albany to plan for and meet our water needs and ensure we aren't negatively impacting other customers. We're focused on minimizing water use, and that starts with data center design and operational innovation. Our New Albany facility uses efficient evaporative cooling, annually using less than half the water it takes to irrigate an average golf course in the southwest United States. Our Bowling Green facility will use closed-loop dry coolers with its operational annual water usage being similar to two full-service family-style restaurants. We're constantly innovating to minimize water usage through advanced controls and AI monitoring. As mentioned, our data centers represent more than $10 billion in investments in Ohio, supporting jobs and strengthening the local tax base. And unlike other large developments, data centers don't require cities to build new roads, houses, and schools to accommodate them and their workers, which can increase taxes for everyone. When we need new infrastructure for our sites, like water and road infrastructure, we pay for it to be built. For example, Meadow worked with Northwestern Water and Sewer District in Bowling Green to fund several off-site infrastructure projects, including a 2 million gallon elevated storage tank, which will provide enhanced resiliency throughout the community with additional water storage. And we're investing directly in community priorities. To date, we have provided more than $7 million to nonprofits and schools across more than 100 projects in Franklin and Licking counties. These include nonprofits like the Sight Center of Northwest Ohio, expanding digital accessibility and independence for people who are blind or low vision, or the Dawes Arboretum in Licking County, supporting a modern greenhouse that will help grow an additional 10,000 native plant species per year. MetisOhio data centers are long-term infrastructure investments. They create jobs, generate economic activity, empower the digital services people and businesses depend on every day. We're committed to being a good neighbor, operationally, economically, and in how we engage with communities across the state. Data centers are essential to the 21st century economy and maintaining U.S. global competitiveness. We're proud to invest here, and we recognize that communities have real questions about what these facilities mean for them. We want to be constructive, solutions-oriented partners, working with state and local communities to address concerns while enabling this critical infrastructure to be built in the U.S. Thank you to the committee for having this important discussion and we're happy to answer questions at the end.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. My name is Liz Schwab, and I lead market development and policy for Google's data center teams. I want to start by acknowledging the testimony from Ohioans earlier this week. While we are proud of the benefits that our investments bring, we are also listening intently to the concerns that are being raised. Genuine anxieties felt by residents about what this industry's growth means for their communities. My testimony today will focus on how Google approaches this dual responsibility of building the digital infrastructure that our society depends on while strengthening the communities and shared systems that sustain us. Over Google's 20 years of experience building data centers all over the world, we remain committed to investing locally, ensuring affordability, and increasing the capacity and resiliency of shared infrastructure. Our commitment to building the right way begins with understanding why this infrastructure is so vital. Data centers serve as the essential backbone for the digital tools Ohioans rely on every day, whether it's using Google Maps to navigate a traffic jam, preserving family memories on Google Photos, or accessing critical health and financial records. Outside of our personal lives, data centers are what power our modern economy. Nearly 650,000 Ohio businesses used Google tools last year to connect with their customers online. Our data centers also serve some of Ohio's most vital institutions, analyzing genomic data for OSU's Wexner Medical Center, processing secure financial transactions for Huntington National Bank. This digital infrastructure is also increasingly essential to securing American technological leadership and national security. We recognize that being an engine for Ohio's economy requires us to be a responsible steward of the physical infrastructure behind it. This is why Google is committed to building data centers the right way, ensuring our growth fosters a mutually beneficial relationship with the community partners that we call home. Since breaking ground in New Albany in 2019, Google's Ohio footprint has expanded to include campuses in Columbus and Lancaster, representing a total investment in the state of more than $20 billion. Powering this physical footprint is a dedicated workforce of more than 3,000 individuals, representing a team with deep expertise in the skilled trades, technical operations, and mission-critical fields like the military. Our sites also require a significant skilled trade workforce to build, with our average U.S. facility supporting 4,200 annual construction jobs and $40 million in construction wages over the initial build-out period. We're proud that for every one direct job at our site, we support nine more in the broader economy. We're committed to meaningfully engaging with residents and leaders in the Ohio communities where we operate. Beyond being responsible resource stewards, we're an active and dedicated local partner. Through Grow with Google, we have trained more than 379,000 Buckeyes on digital skills, and since 2006 have contributed over $16 million to funding Ohio organizations and nonprofits. Google is also supporting workforce development. For example, we work with the National Center for Urban Solutions to sponsor 50 students annually through our STAR program, Skilled Trades and Readiness, achieving a 90% placement rate at our sites. Responsible growth, of course, extends to our energy practices. Google purchases 100% of our Ohio power through competitive retail markets and takes transmission service under PUCO approved tariffs. This large load growth allows utilities to spread fixed infrastructure costs across a broader base, putting downward pressure on rates for everyone, a trend already proven in other markets where Google operates like Georgia Power Indiana Michigan Power and DTE Energy who have all been able to freeze or lower utility bills as a result of data center growth We're committed to being a collaborative partner to support the regional grid. We actively participate in the PJM stakeholder process, including recent efforts surrounding the reliability backstop auction, and have formally advocated for PUCO solutions that insulate Ohio families and small businesses from anticipated costs. And finally, Google is proud to invest heavily in new energy technologies and commercial structures that the entire system can benefit from. For example, Google has accelerated enhanced geothermal and new nuclear innovations like small modular reactors. We are actively working to remove barriers to customer-funded advanced transmission technologies, building on the regulatory framework that this body achieved via House Bill 15 last year. And just this week, we announced a first-of-a-kind commercial structure to aggregate 100 megawatts of distributed capacity in PJM each year into a virtual power plant, freeing up new capacity for the broader system while delivering real economic benefits through direct compensation of PJM customers. Google is equally committed to responsible water stewardship where we operate. By taking a holistic approach to water resources, we ensure that our data centers leave watersheds more resilient, and we're committed to replenishing 120% of the water we consume globally. Here in Ohio, Google is proud to be a part of a coalition providing funding to the Nature Conservancy to restore Slim Creek wetlands, filtering over 700 acres of agricultural runoff to prevent algae blooms and secure Buckeye Lakes water quality. In closing, thank you for your leadership on these critical topics. This is a generational investment and a responsibility we must get right, not only to meet the digital demands of our economy, but to lift up communities, provide family-sustaining jobs, and modernize our electric grid. We understand that true success here is measured by the trust that we build and the stewardship we provide to our shared systems. Building on Google's 20-year track record, our promise is simple. We will pay our own way, and we will show up today and tomorrow for the communities we call home. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions.

Great. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman Chavez, Chairman Holmes, members of the committee. Good to see you again. I'm Craig Sundstrom, head of energy and sustainability public policy for Amazon Web Services. I'm proud to be one of the 35,000 Ohioans employed by Amazon today. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and support this committee's mission to provide accurate, actionable information about Ohio's data center industry. Amazon's economic impact to Ohio is significant. In addition to over 35,000 direct jobs, Amazon supports over 60,000 indirect jobs and has invested over $70 billion in Ohio since 2010. More than half of that, $39.9 billion, has been in data centers since we launched the AWS Columbus region in 2016. Today, our data centers support 9,500 jobs and contribute $10.9 billion to Ohio's GDP. These are not theoretical or temporary jobs. These are real jobs held by real Ohioans who build, connect, operate power, and maintain the digital economy. Not just Amazon employees, but thousands of electricians, pipefitters, technicians, and tradespeople in our supply chain. Behind them are thousands of Ohio families counting on you to enact policies that maintain our state's dominance as a destination for high-paying family sustaining jobs. Ohio's been smart to attract this investment, and other states have noticed. Some may be surprised that AWS has operated here in Ohio for a decade. Since that time, we've also partnered with states like Pennsylvania, Indiana, Mississippi, Louisiana, and others. And in fact, when we recently announced our $20 billion investment in Pennsylvania, Governor Shapiro actually said he was sick and tired of losing to Ohio. Quickly, I'd like to address some facts about our data center operations in Ohio and then look forward to your questions. On sound, we've invested in an industry-leading acoustic program, integrating sound mitigation throughout the facility lifecycle, from site planning to operations. Our measures include sound dampening materials, strategic equipment placement, acoustic enclosures, and bespoke solutions at each site. Backup generators run infrequently, mostly for brief midday tests or otherwise emergencies, and must meet local sound requirements. On water, our data centers have funded replenishment projects returning now over 75 million gallons of water per year to Ohio watersheds. In Ohio, we typically use cooling water for only about 3% of the year. The remaining 97% of the year we cool with outside air alone. This reduces electricity demand by 25 to 35 percent during peak summer conditions at our sites. Our North American data centers achieve a water usage effectiveness of 0.13 liters per kilowatt hour. We cool approximately 26 data centers with reclaimed water today in our footprint and expect to expand that to more than 130 very soon. Amazon data centers in Ohio use less water annually than actually just two car washes. We're committed to being water positive by 2030 and are already more than halfway there. On energy, Amazon has invested in 23 projects in Ohio since we first started operations here, generating energy that goes directly onto the grid. Since 2020, we've been one of the world's largest corporate purchasers of carbon-free energy. And on that, we're now investing in nuclear power, including advanced small modular reactors with an equity investment in X energy to advance more than 5 gigawatts of new nuclear energy by 2039. And then finally on costs. We believe large energy users should pay the full cost of their power and not shift costs onto households or small businesses. We invest in transmission lines, substations, grid upgrades, and new generation. An independent study by Energy and Environment Economics, otherwise known as E3, confirmed that Amazon pays for its own power costs and in some instances provides surplus revenues to utilities which they can use to reinvest in their own grids. Here in central Ohio, we take service under AAP Ohio's large load tariff, ensuring costs are allocated appropriately to data centers. In Indiana, just next door, for example, our partnership with NIPSCO will generate approximately $1 billion in cost savings being returned to existing customers over 15 years. And we have more examples behind that. In closing, Amazon data centers create thousands of high-skilled jobs, drive opportunities for local businesses, generate hundreds of millions in tax revenues for schools and services, and support workforce development programs. Thank you, Chairman Holmes and Chavez and all the committee members. I look forward to your questions.

Co-Chair Chavez, Co-Chair Holmes, committee members, thank you for the invitation to testify today on behalf of Microsoft on such an important topic. My name is Daniel Brown, and I'm a senior director on our state government affairs team, leading our data center policy work. We commend this committee's work to examine the impact that data centers have in communities and on the Ohio economy. Our investments in New Albany, Heath, and Hebron are at early development stages. Site preparation has commenced and vertical construction is expected to begin next year with completion in 2029. We also own one side in Pataskala, which we will begin development of next year. At Microsoft, we think about data center development as long-term community investments. And that's why we recently announced our Community First AI Infrastructure Initiative, which is really a commitment that we make to our communities in which we intend to operate. They focus on five priorities that are key for Ohioans. Electricity, water, jobs, local tax revenue, and training. And I'll walk through each of those really quickly. First, we pay our fair share of the electricity that we consume. Our goal is that we do not increase electricity rates for other rate payers. We pay utility rates that are high enough to cover our costs. We pay costs associated with generation, transmission, and distribution upgrades. And we make sure that our costs don't impact other rate payers. Second, we minimize our water usage and we replenish more water than we use. We work with local utilities to make sure that our water usage does not diminish community supply. We also invest in necessary infrastructure upgrades, and we pay for those upgrades so that community do not have to pay and shoulder those costs. We also invest in new technologies like closed-loop cooling, which we will use in our Ohio data centers. This greatly diminishes the water that we consume. And in fact, the water that we will consume in our Ohio data centers is equal to the amount of water that a single restaurant uses in a year. Third, we'll create jobs for your residents. Our projects generate hundreds of construction jobs and support long-term technical careers. We also make it a priority to hire locally. And we also provide the training for your residents to make sure that they have the skills that they need to secure those roles. Fourth, and importantly, we add to the local tax base. Microsoft will not seek property tax abatements in local communities. and from municipalities. We believe that property tax revenue should be invested in the communities for vital services that are important to the community like schools, parks, libraries, and emergency services. Fifth we will strengthen your community by investing in AI training and in nonprofits Underscoring all of this is our enduring commitment to building trust and ensuring transparency And that's why Microsoft has made the commitment that we will no longer require non-disclosure agreements with local governments. Microsoft looks forward to our continued partnership with the state of Ohio. Appreciate the time today. Happy to take any questions.

No, sir.

I can start. Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members. I don't think hyperscaler has a general complete definition. I think the commonality amongst us is that we're usually owning and operating the facilities, the servers inside, and the business practices they're in, versus many other folks you'll hear from are more co-location, multi-tenant, so they'll be leasing out space inside. We might be one of those lessees inside of those facilities. We love spending time together. We don't always testify together, I guess I would say, but I think that's the distinction. I think from a size and scale standpoint, we are seeing both us traditional hyperscalers and co-location facilities kind of joining a similar space. So you will see very sizable co-location and multi-tenant facilities in the same way you'll see hyperscale facilities, but really it's that business model difference.

Thank you, Co-Chairman. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to come. It is really important to us and our state, and this is why we created this committee. Just as a refresher for everyone, the mission of this whole purpose was to ensure that the Ohio citizens have accurate, relevant, and usable information concerning the economic, environmental, and security impacts of Ohio's data center development through discussion with experts, stakeholders, interested parties, and Ohio citizens. So this whole thing has been to support the citizens. And as a review, this is our third hearing. The first hearing is we brought in every Ohio governmental entity that has interaction with the data centers to get a baseline of how our state is interacting with you. on Monday we had citizens come in an open forum for anyone who wanted to come in and we had a lot of questions so you hear a lot of those today and we tried hard to make sure as that servant attitude we having to help and try to be honest brokers on that So I have a lot of questions, but the first one I wanted to ask, and these are just general, the Data Center Coalition came in and testified that Ohio is uniquely interesting or important in this information age. could you help everyone understand why Ohio is, why you're all interested in Ohio? What makes Ohio unique as a site for data centers? Thank you.

Can we just go down the road? Again, whoever thought it could be additive. Right. Sorry. I wish you could be more specific, but that there was anything different. Okay. And I feel bad for making you stand now. Yeah. Yeah. So if you want to sit, yeah, I just didn't want to have the popcorn, but seeing you just please be comfortable, whatever. If you're comfortable standing, sitting, whatever, photo op, you know, it's been done. So yeah, be comfortable. One follow up. Chair Holmes has some more questions for you. So that being said, it's on you now. I'm not making you stand. Thank you. And I think maybe, and I'll stop at more of the larger strategic issues, because there's more, I'm sure, other members. Here's what I've been saying to my constituents for a long time in my eight-year tenure here at the Statehouse is energy and information, right? They're the economic drivers of the 21st century for the United States of America. and a national security imperative, that we're in a hyper-competitive international environment, and this access to information and energy is of critical importance now, maybe more than ever. I heard you all mention that. I would really appreciate hearing amplifying comments on how important this issue is for Ohioans. Yeah.

Then just as a follow-up, again, pushback has been from others that we are exaggerating the competitive nature of the environment and that other countries' primacy is not as critical as some of us might be making it out to be. Could you make any comments on that? I've been asked, well, why is it so important that the United States is the global leader in artificial intelligence development? and sometimes I struggle. Could you help me answer that question? Why is it so important that we maintain this edge? Both of you, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for that.

I'm happy to take it. So for Microsoft, Senator, thank you for the question. I think for us It means paying all of our costs, starting with the electricity that we consume, but also making sure that we pay for any costs that come with generation and transmission and any system upgrades. That means that we work with utility companies to make sure that we're paying our fair share. We work with the commission. We believe that we, as large load data center users, should pay for the costs, especially as we look at grid concerns and grid capacity. We know that 50% of the capacity in PJM is attributed to data centers,

Thanks for the question, Senator. And I think my statement on our goal is we don't always control increases in rates, as sometimes people assume. But anything that we can control, we will pay for our fair share. and we also bring on additional capacity when needed. So my goal is not to, I'm sorry, thank you.

I think that's really an important question. I'm going to do a folksy antidote in that my grandpa used to always tell me there's only two fairs, the state fair and the county fair, when I said that wasn't fair as a child. But I think it's really important that this really comes down to how the markets work with the utility commissions, with PJM, with FERC. It's obviously complex. You had great testimony last week from those parties, and I think they spoke to that. Chair French is doing a phenomenal job. Obviously, we've seen leadership from local utilities on putting forward large load tariffs, which have the contractual terms that will protect against many of those costs. There's ongoing work via PJM and FERC to ensure that those other costs, so-called wholesale costs, regional transmission costs, are also properly allocated to the cost causer. So some of those things are still in process, and I think that was spoken to last night. But a large load tariff with strong provisions we're very supportive of. We're very engaged with PJM and their work to reform their market structures, get better at load forecasting, ensuring that there's new capacity auctions, backstop auctions that are dedicated specifically to new capacity as you described and then FERC is underway looking at opportunities to address regional transmission costs and how those are allocated to customers So some ongoing some have been completed but all incredibly important, and we're supportive of those efforts. Mr. Chairman, Senator, in the hopes of being additive to the discussion as we go down here, I would just share, I think when all of our companies signed the White House Repair Protection Pledge, The key item in there is that we pledged to build, buy, or bring the new energy and energy infrastructure we needed to serve our customers. And so that will take, I think, many different forms. I think for us at Amazon, you have seen that we have a preference to be grid-connected. That would primarily be through a utility large load tariff that's ensuring that we are not straining costs on the system by putting more financial guarantees up front, signing long-term contracts, paying minimum demand charges, exit fees, and others. All those mechanisms are designed to protect rate payers. Rate making is different than energy pricing, right? We know that the DOE National Labs recently put out a study that looked at the recent increase in prices, and there are multiple factors ranging from supply chain to inflation to COVID to the war in Ukraine and impacts on commodity prices. So those things are going to necessarily be out of, I think, our individual control, certainly out of the control of Amazon. But for any cost that could be shown that we are incrementally adding to the system, we want to ensure we're paying for that, and we want to do that in a way that's equitable for not only our customers but for other ratepayers as well.

Chairman, Senator, in 2025, we paid over $10 million in property taxes. We view property tax abatements as tools that local governments can choose to use and look forward to continuing that conversation.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Senator. I think we start in our day with having those conversations locally. Obviously, localities have been given tools, CRA, enterprise zones, pilot abilities, et cetera. we want to put together an agreement that's going to work for everyone and that has strong ROI for that community, hits the right notes for that specific situation. So that's a negotiation that happens, and that's a discussion that happens in that process. We're committed to making sure that land's right. I know you're going to have communities in next week, and I think they're probably really well-suited to speak to how they've situated that so that they made sure that this was net positive for their communities for their school districts et cetera So I think those agreements can happen and you can still have a really positive outcome for everyone involved Thank you

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to ask just a few questions right now, and I'll let other members ask, and then you can circle back to me. My first question is, can you speak about how your company informed the local community about your development?

Can I follow up on that answer? You said it continues on for the next couple of decades. What does that mean?

Thank you.

I just wanted to make one comment. I agree with what was just shared. I would just add, Mr. Chairman and Senator Blackshear, that from a Microsoft perspective, we start our engagements really early, not only on the formal side but on the informal side. We have a community engagement team that holds town halls and hearings and is looking to work in partnership with the communities and importantly to earn permission to operate within those communities. That's really important to us.

Senator Blexcher.

Happy to take it. Co-chairs and Senator Blackshear, I think as most in the state, we avail ourselves of the sales and use tax exemption. I don't have the specific details of that, but happy to follow up if necessary. That is a common tool that's used across 36-plus states for these large capital investment decisions. Note two, all manufacturers receive an exemption on sales and use tax in the state. The SUT for data centers is particularly unique in that it's discretionary, unlike for manufacturers, which it's permanent and ongoing, and there's no up or down approval. So we know that's an important tool, but we also want to make sure that that hits the right note, that there's ROI, that there's the right guardrails included with that. As far as local agreements, I think similarly, as I said in my previous answer, those have all been negotiated locally with those communities. They're not unilateral decisions. They're bilateral decisions that are done with localities, approved by localities. If they feel like that agreement is the right for their situation under the authorities that have been given to them for CRAs, again, enterprise zones, TIFFs, et cetera. I don't have the exact details, again, of each of our development agreements, but again, happy to follow up on that. But those are pretty standard processes, and I just note, not unique unto data centers. I think we're spending a lot of time talking about data centers, and that's really important. But these are the same programs and processes that would exist for any manufacturing or other large development that would happen in a community.

Mr. Chairman, Senator, thanks for the question. We'll just say briefly, I don't have a full breakdown between state and local, what may be considered incentives in our agreements with localities. I would just say double down on the importance of the sales and use tax in terms of inviting investment to the state and commend you to the chamber's analysis that showed every dollar in state incentive resulted in $2 in state and local tax payments. Thanks.

Thank you. One last follow-up. Yes.

Then you can circle back to me. All right. So everyone has alluded to paying their fair share. I guess my question is, then where is the disconnect then with the community who feels like you don't? Chairs, Senator, thank you.

Mr. Chairman, Senator Blackshear, I would just say, I shared earlier, that we have been operating data centers in Ohio for about 10 years, and frankly, for most of that time, no one asked. But that's why we really appreciate the work of this committee to seek the facts, seek the information that you need, both from us and from your constituents, to make informed decisions. And I think, to my colleague's point, we'll continue to do our job as an industry to tell that story.

Mr. Chair and Senator, I think it's been well said by my colleagues. I think community concerns are legitimate, and we listen, and we try to respond as adequately as we can. Making sure people, I think for a lot of time, we were building data centers and just doing our job running data centers and our operations. And we do invest in communities. We have community development, regional managers that spend time with those communities. We can always be better at it, though. Same thing. We need to tell our story better. How are we investing in infrastructure that benefits the broader community? And what is that tax revenue doing for the local community? I think we have some really great cases to speak to in Ohio. New Albany, obviously, is the epicenter of data centers and have been doing them for over a decade. So I think they have a really strong story to tell about how they crafted a plan that worked for the community and also for the investment to continue to happen. And also for the ecosystem of jobs that built around. I know I've heard many times it's spoken to that because of the data centers that have invested in that area, many other companies have called that would never have called otherwise. And that's a huge value to the community. And we don't tell that story of the ecosystem often or very well, and we need to continue to tell that better.

Mr. Chair and Representative, I think I'll just take one because I think this is a good one, and then I'll let my colleagues so we don't have redundant testimony. But I think one that we hear a lot is on water. We hear regularly on the amount of water usage, and that's very real, and we take that responsibility of using that natural resource in a very serious way. We regularly hear people speak to a data center can use 5 million gallons of water a day. I think that was a story. It was in the New York Times, and that's percolated, and it's kind of the common theme and metric that you'll hear from folks. I think it's important to have the context of what that is. A very large data center likely using an open tower cooling system that's probably in a relatively hot climate using that, and that's probably a peak day. That's probably not an average day. So all of those things are really important details. As we spoke to in almost all of our testimonies, we're looking at different ways we can minimize water. Those are still efficient evaporative cooling system opportunities. They're systems that are referred to as adiabatic, or basically kind of hybrid systems. And many of us are using dry-cooled closed-loop systems, which, again, are filled once, recirculate, and utilize that water for anywhere from 8 to 12 years. And so that is the evolution of particularly the water story, which I think is really important. And when you hear the numbers, like 5 million gallons a day, that's scary. I agree it is scary. But contextually, we have to understand where that's applicable and where that came from, to your point, and how the industry has evolved.

Chair, Representative, he really nailed that question, so I won't repeat much of it. But I will perhaps bring us a couple decades earlier than where you started, which is probably an analogy you all have heard many times, that the computing power to send a man to the moon is equivalent to what's on your phone, right? And so to Craig's point, the efficiencies that we are driving across the entire stack of compute at our data centers, in the chips, in how we operate them, right, and how we are able to shift loads to different parts of the country or the world when maybe there's a weather event or a grid event, we are able to do that at a scale and at a sophistication that really can only be done when you centralize that, right? And it's cost efficient, it's more energy and resource efficient, and again, we have a very healthy competition between each other, right, in our cloud businesses to keep pushing the frontier and get better and better.

Yes, please. I'm not very satisfied. Thank you, Chair. The five million gallons, that was helpful. That was a nice summary of where we were, the technology to get us where we are and where we're headed. I get that. But come on, let's talk about noise and discharge. What does that mean for discharging into a stream versus into a sanitary system in a city? All the other things that have been listed by the folks. We have that. We heard that. This is all over. I want some civics on where the industry was because I think if people are aware of that in their local community about a problem that they're identifying, we need to admit that. So where has the industry been on all those items? Not just one of them. Not just energy. That's helpful. Not just water. but the noise, the construction at night, all those things. Get me to where from here to the start. Get me to where we are, and you can talk about the future if you want, but you've got to address every one of those. Please.

So 50 is like the equivalent of a conversation in a library, sort of quiet background conversation And again folks can look up their equivalent But just to give you a kind of a tangible example of a noise effort that we have ongoing with the locality I think it's also important to know that as we build these, you know, industry is not a monolith. If you've seen one data center, you've seen one data center. And again, to my point on sort of healthy competition, we're constantly innovating on what types of technologies, quieting systems on fans, et cetera, that we can bring to bear to ensure that our data centers remain an unobtrusive light industrial neighbor. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Representative. Happy to expound to it and didn't leave anything off on purpose, just wanted to keep it brief. But I think we've had a great evolution as Meta. I can speak to our evolution. We developed our first data center in 2011 in Prineville, Oregon. That certainly was done under different circumstances than the way we develop data centers today. Our footprints look different, and we've continued to expand in Oregon at that site since that time, and we've continued to develop and refine and innovate on our design and our footprint. Things that we think about, to my colleague's point, site layout, strategic site layout. how do you situate the buildings and the equipment so we can minimize impact on any sensitive receptors, people, buildings, et cetera. What are the controls in place to dampen noise, vibration controls, enclosures around equipment, buffers, and other visual impact situations? We know that we're using land, right? And as these footprints get bigger, it's really important that we're responsible with our land use. We have a really strong biodiversity land use program. We look at the forest land that exists there. How can we retain as much as possible? How can we replant native species? We have about 4,000 acres across our footprints of native species biodiversity programs. I think that's really important and actually a net benefit to the region. We've expanded that into programs and partnerships with entities like Ducks Unlimited to look at habitat restoration. So that's incredibly important. I think all of those are kind of that development of a design engagement on ultimate kind of site selection, site layout and development that evolved over time. So it's been on noise, it's been on water, it's been on impact and land use and informs each one of our decisions. And obviously we're having those discussions very locally with the folks that know that area and region the best to try to land that in the right way. But use less water, and we still use energy, but how do we add new energy supply to the system? In 2020, Meta committed to matching 100% of our energy use with clean and renewable energy. So that's, to date, a contracted amount of over 30 gigawatts. That's nuclear, wind, solar, battery, geothermals. We have to add to the grid as well, too. We know we're taking from the grid. That's being water positive in 2030. In 2024, we restored 1.5 billion gallons of water to local watersheds where we operate, particularly in high and medium-stressed watersheds. So we know we need to get back and try to be actually positive on water as well, too. So those are just all the things that we're doing individually as we progressed over time, make those commitments. One other point that I would note is I think it's really important to trust but verify. We treasure what we measure. So we really proud that we put out an annual sustainability report where you can see individually for each of our facilities the amount of electricity consumption and the amount of water usage as well as all of the projects we invested in to match with new energy supply on the clean and renewable front as well as new water restoration programs And so we put that out each year so everyone can look at and see any one of our facilities individually, exactly what those numbers are, back to transparency and reporting and making sure people know. We already do that. We're proud of that, and we think that's really important. Mr. Chairman, Representative I believe in your question you sort of mentioned a number of things, water, sound, impacts of the land and the like. I think one thing that I would share, and this is true I think of any economic development project but in our experience construction is always more disruptive than the actual operations right? So for us I think at Amazon this is why local relationships are so important. They can set sound ordinances. They can set construction hours. They can permit road use during construction. In fact, when we were in construction in Hilliard, we had one member of the community reach out to one member of the council and share that a construction light was shining into her yard, and so we moved it, right? Like, this is what I think growing and scaling as a responsible neighbor looks like. I mentioned water a bit earlier. I think in your first question, representative, but I would also share on sound a couple things. One, as we've continued to grow and scale in this industry and learn more from those, particularly here in Ohio, who are our neighbors, we are now, with every new data center design, designing at a goal, an internal goal, of 50 decibels at the nearest residential audible receiver, which we think, you know, I think my colleague shared earlier, a dishwasher. We pin that at about a refrigerator, so pick the appliance that you think best. It could be a Whirlpool. I don't know, Senator. And then I would also just quickly, on the topic of sound, just address what tends to be the largest cause of sound, and that is backup generators. A few things on backup generators are true, at least for us. We're now using Tier 4 certified generators, which means that we are hitting the most stringent EPA emissions requirements available for the category of generators themselves. They reduce emissions orders of magnitude more than original Tier 1 generators. And then I think it's just really important to note that when we're in operations, those generators are permitted for emergency use only. So under federal EPA and then state implementation regulations, we can only run those for a finite period of hours every year. When we do have to do regular operations and testing and maintenance, we typically do that in the middle of the day when folks are at work and not at home, particularly if we're anywhere near a neighborhood. And then the only other times that they would run would be during an actual grid emergency. And I can assure you that if we are on full backup power, that there is something significant like a severe weather event. Thank you. Mr. Chair, Representative Claggett, thank you for the question. I think the only topic that wasn't addressed, and I'm happy to take it, is on discharge. It's a good question. I will say that all discharge is heavily regulated, both federally at the state level as well, and then there's also local regulations which we comply with. Any of our waste or discharge goes through a sanitation and waste management system with the local utility and so we ensure that we compliant There is no discharge into the river system at an ad hoc basis And I understand there were questions earlier in the testimony over the last few weeks where there were some questions about whether or not there was waste going into the rivers. I think it was shown that it's not happening. And we are... To be precise, there was one, the EPA noted one instance of that. So again, I'm looking for a history. and maybe you don't know it, and that's okay, but there was at least one that the Ohio EPA identified. So, again, I'm hoping that this group of four has knowledge of this broader industry. So that's why the question is. No, it's a great question. I would just reiterate that Microsoft, and I know our other hyperscalers here, comply with all federal, state, and local laws with regard to the environment to discharge and then water treatment. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair. I appreciate it. And to the four of you standing before us today, it is greatly appreciated. I think it's the first opportunity I've had to see four of our big tech stakeholders in the room and coming to the table to listen and consider potential solutions to the concerns that our constituents are voicing to us. So the chair has asked for you to speak directly to the concerns of our constituents. I want to tell you that my perspective has been that you're doing a terrible job actually selling your product on the public scale. So respectfully, you're far behind the narrative on this. Our constituents are concerned. They have bad experiences from all over the state of Ohio that they brought to the table on Monday, and they're very concerned about their health and essentially what we leave to the next generation. So it's very important that we, as legislators on this panel, are responsive to those concerns and taking them seriously, and I do. Last night I surveyed my district, and in four hours I had over 60 responses, which in my opinion is quite impressive because we only had about 35 to 40 testimonies on Monday. So I would like to let you know that I do have a potential data center project that's being pursued in my district, and my district and constituents are extremely concerned. Over 90% of the responses I received last night are basically telling me, we do not want this, no matter what you say. They say that they do not believe anything that the data centers are telling them. I attended a public informational session, which was the first opportunity for the data center developer to share the public project and the scope of the plans, and they broke down every single concern of the community. that they heard at a township town hall. And even though that they did that work and provided that transparency for the project, our constituents didn't believe it. So I'd like to ask you, first of all, why are you behind the narrative on this? How can you catch up, provide actual transparency in the project process, and address the concerns as they're being voiced in our communities with transparency? Thank you.

Follow-up? Follow-up. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for those questions. I appreciate your willingness to listen and be responsive to the concerns of the community. I want to shift gears a little bit and go back to the earlier conversation related to the why. Why are we seeing this boom in data center development? Of course, we know there's consumer demand, and we're looking at a massive development on the AI front as well. But I want to talk specifically about the national security imperative. why do we need to build on American soil rather than just saying nope go do it somewhere else and of course we spoken a little bit about the incentive regarding Ohio development In 2015 thousands of signatories submitted an open letter to the United Nations essentially putting warnings around the development of these frontier technologies, including AI, and what was coming in the autonomous weaponry space. The United Nations, including the United States, said that we will not essentially put parameters around the development of these technologies because it puts us at a wartime disadvantage. So we talked briefly about the Department of War, you know, and the need to have this strategic defense imperative that does involve the development of data centers on American soil. So I guess I want to talk a little bit about what that means. When you are developing these centers, are you using products, chips made in the United States, or are we sourcing those from maybe our adversaries? And I may have one more follow-up.

Follow-up? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the clarification. It is appreciated. So one last question on this front related to cybersecurity. If it is very important that we develop in the United States, what are those cybersecurity standards that are in place at the data center level to protect the transfer and storage of our personal data?

Senator Reineke.

Chairman, Senator Reneke, thank you for the question. Global health organizations like the WHO have repeatedly concluded that there is no threat from EMFs from data centers. I don't have the report in front of me, but I'm happy to follow up and send it to you. The average person will get more EMFs from their cell phone or microwave or TV in their home than they would by ever walking by a data center or living near a data center. Chairman Senator thanks for the question We at AWS we been safely operating data centers for now over 20 years I think like my colleague our facilities use standard electrical and networking equipment and we're aware of no peer-reviewed research that shows that EMF radiation is a threat to nearby communities or our employees. Please, if you have any information, please send it through Chair Holmes' office and he'll disseminate it to the committee.

Mr. Chairman, Senator Reineke, They've traditionally been used to protect information as we work through security issues and development plans. Microsoft has just decided that it's paramount to prioritize transparency and engagement to build trust with communities. in a very rare circumstance if there was some type of confidential information proprietary that we couldn't share, we would ask for some kind of confidentiality. But what we have found is that the conversations that we're having on our development plans can be shared and importantly should be shared with the community members. Mr. Chairman, Senator, I think what we would say at Amazon is that the NDAs are an important economic development tool that have been used by nearly every economic development in other industry. It's a tool for local governments to use if they choose to use them or not. and from our perspective we are in many instances talking about probably one of the most competitive industries with customers or owners, operators like ourselves who have very proprietary data particularly at the early stages of what amounts to be a large real estate development and so I encourage the panel certainly next week in your conversations with the local government leaders that will be here before you, ask the very same question I'd love to hear their thoughts, but we have, from our perspective, they see it as a viable tool in order to foster the type of economic development discussions that they're interested in having. Chairman, Senator, thank you for the question. I agree with the previous comments. I think it's also perhaps important to just recognize the moment we're in. And so while NDAs are a very commonly used economic development tool, we also appreciate that data centers are a hot and sensitive topic right now. So I think the solution is probably fairly nuanced in terms of how can we as an industry show up better for our local partners, be as transparent as early as we can. Once we've made that decision to actually move forward, we have commercial certainty. It's probably important for your constituents to know there are many projects or potential sites that don't move forward, right? And so we never want to get a community too spun up on something if it's not the right fit. So I think, again, important to show up for our local partners if NDAs for them are not the right fit. I think industry is committed to working with them to find the right solution. and again I think many of the constituent concerns can also be addressed just by more information sharing you know having project websites having fact sheets working closely with local water utilities or city economic development staff to just get as much facts as we can out there so that they know what their local leaders are sort of discussing, debating, and deciding for their communities. And Chair, Senator, I think it's been well said, and I think just I've kind of ground in type and timing. Timing because it is a very kind of lengthy process, and that first phone call is very different than further in the stage. And also then type, you know, what information is able to be shared. To my other colleague's point, there might be some really confidential proprietary information, but it's important that we get as many facts out as possible, and we partner with our local communities to make sure that they can share information on, you know, water or setbacks or all that important stuff that's going to be decided in local zoning or other ordinance decisions. So I really kind of, not a binary decision, I think, as much as a type and timing decision. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for being here. We have to come to a conclusion here on a lot of these issues very, very soon. The Speaker of the House is being quoted in the media that we're going to have a bill passed in six days. So all the questions that my colleagues are asking that I'm going to ask, we need to have that follow-up very fast. there are clear we have heard clear evidence of good things that are happening that your companies and companies like yours have caused functionally it appears that for example meta is effectively saving the perinuclear plant by extending its life two decades we've heard countless stories that that many or all of you are doing good things in new albany But we also have headlines, and we have other things we've heard of your own representative from the coalition saying that half of the rate increases were driven by data centers at PJM. We have seen headlines of $2 billion of tax incentives going out the door. It wouldn't have been $2 billion if you weren't doing tens of billions of dollars of activity. but we have no idea what that value proposition is. We know that there are thousands of jobs out there that are counting on what you're doing, but we don't know what that value proposition is. And so some of these questions should have been answered by the Governor's Administration or the Department of Development. We've invited them. They've not answered. So I'm going to ask you, Tell us about agreements you have with the state of Ohio. Give some specifics. What are those percentages you're getting? What is the value that you're getting? What are we getting in return? What is the income tax that you're driving to us and our communities? So let me start just with the first part. Does your company have an agreement with the state of Ohio? What's the duration? What is the broad nature of that agreement? If you each could speak to that.

Please send any information that you have through Chairman Holmes' office, and he'll disseminate it to the committee. Also, while I'm talking, you've been up there for almost two hours, so at the end of Representative Glassburn's first salvo of questions, We'll take probably a 30-minute break, so I want to be respectful of you all.

Chairs, Representative, thank you for the question. My understanding from our economic development team is that this currently doesn't impact any of our existing agreements. I can't speak for, you know, in terms of how long the pause lasts and if that would impact, you know, future sites that we don't have agreements for yet if we were to seek additional sites in the state. But my understanding is it doesn't affect our existing agreements or investment plans. Chairman, Representative, the answer to your question from our perspective is no. Mr. Chairman, Representative, same answer, should not impact current projects. But if there is any long-term stop on allowing for a sales and use tax exemption, it will impact our ability to continue to expand in the State of Ohio. Mr. Chair and Representative, same thing. We have an issued certificate, so I think right now it doesn't impact that. I think everyone is, though, paying attention, right? I think that caught the headlines, and people at the highest levels pay attention to that, and what's the business climate, and what action or direction is any individual state taking? Similar lines.

Chair, Representative, I'm not 100% sure. I don't think so, but I'm not 100% sure, so I can follow up with you. Mr. Chair, Representative, I don't believe so either, but again, I'd love to confirm that and follow up with your office as well. Mr Chairman Representative same answer I not aware of it Mr Chairman representative same answer Okay Follow up

Let the record show they're all shaking their heads no. Yes. Okay.

Chairman, Representative, thank you for the question. To my knowledge, all of our existing sites in Ohio are not brownfield redevelopments, but we do have a plethora of brownfield examples in our broader portfolio. So we have one in Michigan City, Indiana. We have a retired coal plant in Widows Creek, Alabama. I think one of our sites in the Nordics is an old paper mill. So it's definitely an asset class that we're open to and look to. There can be a lot of pros to redeveloping a brownfield. There can also be some challenges in terms of remediation or timeline. But we welcome that opportunity when it's the right fit. Chairman, Representative, I believe the answer is yes. I don't know if we've redeveloped brownfields in Ohio, so we will follow up on that particular point. I do also just want to clarify, if I may, a previous question. You asked about agreements, I believe, with JobsOhio. We not a party to any and in fact I not sure that we not aware that JobsOhio has been actively attracting specifically data center investment Thank you Mr Chairman Representative for Microsoft I believe the answer is no but we are open to the idea Mr. Chair and Representative, we have not in Ohio, but I think same as with my colleagues, I think that's a really good opportunity to consider. There are kind of uniqueness to that, but there's nothing better than obviously being able to revitalize that and bring that back to life.

Chair, thank you for the question. I think it's really a site-by-site answer, And so if there's a great opportunity in a locality, on a site, and with a utility partner, and that sort of gets over the finish line before something else, then it gets over the finish line, right? To the comments about finding more success in brownfield redevelopment, I do think there is a lot that the state economic development and localities can do to sort of promote and get former industrial sites site-ready to be marketed out to, whether it's data center or other industrial use opportunities. And I'm happy to work to try to gather some of that information from across our portfolio.

We're constantly looking for new sites, and I think what drives our site selection is really access to power and water, just having the right capabilities that we need. But I don't think there's any suggestion that we would not consider Brownfield.