April 9, 2026 · Business, Labor, & Technology · 7,788 words · 6 speakers · 125 segments
All amendments. All amendments. That's good. All right, folks.
Thank you. Thank you.
All right, folks. Welcome back. The Senate Business, Labor, and Technology Committee will come to order. Ms. Chapman, please call the roll.
Senator Carson. Present. Catlin. Excuse. Judah. Present.
Henrickson?
Here.
Madam Chair?
Here.
All right. Welcome, folks. We have three items on the agenda. The first bill is Senate Bill 127. Senator Bridges, please tell us about your bill.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I ask that you postpone indefinitely that Senate bill. Any questions for the sponsor? Senator Henrickson?
Madam Chair, at the request of the sponsor, I move that Senate Bill 127 be postponed indefinitely.
That is a proper motion. Ms. Chapman, please poll the committee.
Senator Carson. Aye. Catlin. Excuse me.
Judah. At the request of the sponsor, yes. Henriksen. Aye.
Madam Chair.
Yes. That vote passes unanimously.
Nope.
Okay. You're all set. And then I'm going to turn the gavel over to Vice Chair Henrickson for the next measure, Senator Bridges and Senator Catlin.
Welcome to this side of the dais. Good to be here.
Good morning. Please tell us about Senate Bill 133.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the committee. In my work on the Budget Committee, I spend a lot of time thinking about how systems either create opportunity or get in the way of it. When we get the structures right, we unlock economic activity here in Colorado, and when we don't, people are left trying to work around rules that just simply weren't designed for them. That is what is happening today for many artists and creative professionals across our state, but we have a solution. The existing statutory business structures in Colorado were designed for businesses with concrete and easily valued assets. Artistic work operates differently in its creation and in the marketplace in three ways. First, the core asset of creative work is intellectual property, the value of which may change considerably and unpredictably over time. Second, multiple contributors may create and share the same asset. And third, artists often have a strong interest in maintaining control over their intellectual property while also attracting investment. Existing statutory structures do not reflect these realities, and as a result, artists often lack clear and reliable ways to protect their creative assets and build long-term value for their work. Senate Bill 133 is a practical, bipartisan solution. It creates an optional business structure that allows artists to organize in a way that reflects how they actually work while still maintaining control and attracting investment. It aligns our legal framework with how people are already creating value in our economy. We've made sure this works in practice, not just on paper, and we'll keep working with stakeholders throughout this process to make sure that that is the case. And in the status quo, people individually can indeed go to lawyers, and you will hear people say, why do we need this? We don't need this. The problem is, yes, you can go to lawyers and create one-off custom LLCs or S-Corps that put all the power, frankly, in the hands of the lawyers creating those custom LLCs and S-Corps and industry folks. It is an ad hoc system where artists have little say or voice. This simplifies things to make sure that Colorado's economy continues to evolve and the people who are building something have the tools to turn that work into long-term opportunity. We want these artists making creative work. We don't want them bogged down in custom LLCs. I respectfully ask for your support, and I appreciate the artists and creative professionals from across Colorado who will testify today on the importance of this bill.
Thank you, Senator Bridges.
Senator Kellen. Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. We're a little light this morning. I appreciate the words of Senator Bridges and how this bill is shaped by his experiences. I'll talk about what it looks like where I'm from. You know I'm from a farm, and I've spent my career in ag, water, banking, and small business. But what I've learned is pretty simple. If people are going to build something, they need a system that matches how they actually operate. We're seeing that same issue in the creative economy. Across the Western Slope, we've got people trying to build real businesses, artists, designers, filmmakers, and sculptors. They contribute to their communities in destinations like Aspen, Crested Butte, Greenland Springs, as well as smaller communities like Lake City, Marble, and Paonia, to just name a few of them. But when they go to set up a business, the options just don't seem to fit. Their work is often shared. It's built around intellectual property and continues to generate value over time. What we hear is they either end up going to attorneys to piece together something that works, or they take deals where they give up too much control just to get started. This bill gives them another option to form a business that fits this kind of work without having to build it from scratch, where they can contribute their work and set the terms or how it's used and how income from it is shared. It's optional, it's practical, and it gives people a way to organize their work while keeping control in the hands of the people creating it. This gives people a tool they can actually use to build something and hang on to it, especially in rural communities that I'm proud to represent. I'd ask for your support on Senate Bill 133. this could make a real difference in the communities that I'm proud of
Thank you Senator Catlin Committee members, questions for our sponsors Seeing none we will go ahead and turn it over to Appreciate the artistic interpretations that are happening at the dais We'll turn it over to witness testimony beginning with It looks like Mr. Herrick. Mr. Lidstone.
Sorry. Thank you, Senator Henriksen. I am here on behalf of myself and the Colorado Bar Association. I have been involved, and I'm an attorney. I have been involved in business law for 47 years now. I have worked with limited liability companies. I was not among the original people who incorporated, who drafted the limited liability company legislation, but I have been involved in limited liability company legislation since the late 1990s. And Alan Sparkman and I have three editions of a book entitled Liminal Liability Companies and Partnerships in Colorado. That is available through the Bar Association if there's any interest there. I do have a good, big background in liminal liability companies. I think it's an incredibly valuable tool. I really object to this statute because this statute is completely and totally unnecessary. There is nothing that the statute provides that cannot be done with an existing limited liability company. As the senator said, yes, you need to go hire a lawyer and help you draft it. But when you look at those long-form articles and the various other twists and turns in this statute, you're going to, if you don't find a lawyer to get it set up the way you want it set up, it's going to create a huge amount of problems. I've seen too many family limited liability companies that have been set up thoughtlessly by people who just want to have an entity there. And they don't know what they're doing, and it gets nothing but a problem. Secondly, or thirdly, the bill is horribly drafted. It uses the term incorporator five times, six times, seven times in the bill. There is no incorporator in a liminal liability company. It just does not exist. It attempts to modify federal tax law in the liminal liability company. Yes, I understand how artists want to take and keep control of their work and their creations. but where someone else is providing money, that goes through various tax rolls, and if the artist does not have anything to give back to that person, the artist keeps it all for the artist's self. That creates an amazing tax burden for the artist, and the artist needs to understand that, which again, yes, I'm a lawyer, yes, I'm driving business to lawyers, But I really think that in order for a complicated transaction like this to occur, it should be a lawyer. To the extent that the artist community think they can create this with a single bill, I would suggest that they would be a lot better served creating, hiring someone who knows what they're doing in the limited liability company world, create the operating agreement that will accomplish this for them. And then they have a form operating agreement that people can use. This bill is badly drafted. It has got improper language in it. It has got potential federal tax issues. And I think that it is a horrible addition to the Limit Liability Company Act. Happy to answer any questions.
uh thank you sir committee members are there any questions for this witness i've seen none thank you for being here and thank you for offering your testimony today uh colleagues and uh members of public i i aired i should have stated at the beginning of this that protocol in this committee is a two-minute testimony i didn't mention that and so i want to give leeway having failed to give that the beginning but going forward we will have two minutes testimony for each member with that i have next meredith badler josh blanchard khadijah haynes mayor john clark Yancey Strickler. And we'll go ahead and just go down this way before we go online. So ma'am, if you want to introduce yourself and go ahead and begin, that would be great.
Good morning, members of the committee. Thank you for having me today. I'm Meredith Badler. I'm the Deputy Director at the Colorado Business Committee for the Arts, the CBCA. Our mission at the CBCA is to advance Colorado's creative economy by connecting arts and business. So naturally, we are very interested and supportive of Senate Bill 133, the Colorado Artists Company Act. Yes, this bill is about supporting artists, but I want to emphasize that this is actually a small business bill. This is a bill that supports entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, gig workers. This is about providing business support and business infrastructure for one of Colorado's most important industries and workforces. Creative work is work. It deserves to be valued and supported in that way. Creative work is collaborative. This bill supports the collaborative nature that creative work and artists naturally engage Every film every musical project every piece of visual art comes from that collaborative nature Artists are historically under-resourced and under-invested in. The creation of these artist companies would make it possible for artists to have greater access to capital and investment and shared value amongst those artists. It also has the potential to provide better infrastructure and benefits to artists. This is an opportunity for Colorado to trailblaze, to innovate. We could be the first state in the nation ever in the world to create a business entity unique to artists and the way that creative work is made, supported, shared, and valued. I encourage your support on Senate Bill 133. Thank you.
Next, we'll go to Josh Blanchard.
Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee. My name is Josh Blanchard, and I serve as the director of the Colorado Creative Industries in the Office of Economic Development and International Trade in Colorado, and I'm here to testify in support of Senate Bill 133. Colorado Creative Industries exists to support, promote, and expand the creative sector as a driver of economic growth, job creation, and the overall quality of life across the state. The creative economy is not just cultural. It is an economic infrastructure, especially in rural and place-based communities. And through programs like the Creative District Program, we have seen firsthand how intentional investment in the arts and in cultural activities, downtowns especially, can support small businesses and can strengthen local identity. This bill aligns with CCI's mission by creating a formal business structure that reflects how artists actually work and collaborate. The creation of the artist company provides a legal and economic framework that recognizes artistic production as both creative and entrepreneurial. Many artists already operate informally as collectives, studios, or collaborative entities without a structure that fully supports their needs. And this legislation provides legitimacy and clarity for artist-led businesses, creates pathways for investment and capital formation, and supports long-term sustainability for creative careers by requiring that artists maintain at least 51% ownership, ensuring that creative control and economic benefit remain with the creators themselves. CCAI anticipates that designated artists and organizations within our creative districts, and also more broadly all across Colorado, would be strong candidates to utilize or pilot this model. And furthermore, our creative districts are already hubs for creative entrepreneurship and community development, and they would likely amplify the existence of this tool to eligible artists and entities. Overall, this bill is a forward-thinking approach that recognizes the evolving nature of work in our creative economy, which I'll underscore represents $19.7 billion in the state's GDP and more than 120,000 jobs in this sector throughout the state. Colorado is already a strong leader in supporting artists, and for these reasons, CCI is proud to support Senate Bill 113. We ask for your support, and I'm available to answer questions. Thank you.
Thank you. Next, we'll go online to Mayor John Clark.
Thank you, Madam Chair and committee members. My name is John Clark. I'm the mayor of Ridgeway. I'll keep my comments brief. I urge you to support Senate Bill 26133, making Colorado the first state in the country, and as she said, the world, to create an artist corporation, limited liability corporation. Why do we need this form of LLC, you might ask? I believe the creative economy has likely done more for the state of Colorado than the vast majority of other sectors in the state over the last decade or so. I won't rattle off the stats that I'm sure you're aware of, but suffice it to say that it provides more to the state GDP than either mining or transportation. Indeed, Ridgway has been transformed in an arts community through efforts like CCI's Creative District program and has become a shining example of the economic power of the arts in the 21st century. Creating the Artist Corporation makes it possible for artists throughout the country to make the value of their work become an actual asset of their LLC, protect their intellectual property indefinitely, and issue ownership units, including fractional units, letting artists build equity and share ownership with collaborators. The Artist Corporation combines the best of existing forms liability protection passed through taxation equity sharing with protections no other form provides by default a legally protected artistic mission 51 artist voting control ip reversion rights and separation of economic and creative rights all built into the form itself no expensive lawyers required in short this bill opens up a whole new set of economic opportunities for artists everywhere. I urge you to pass it out of committee today. Thanks again for the opportunity to testify.
Thank you so much. Now we'll hear from Mr. Strickler, please.
Hello. My name is Yancy Strickler, and I'm the co-founder and former CEO of Kickstarter, which has helped creative people raise nearly $10 billion for the projects. And I'm the founder of artist corporations. I grew up the son of a musician. I know the creative life as a passion and a part of who you are and a hard way to make a living. But more people are doing it than ever. 48% of Americans have an active creative practice, as many people as follow the NFL. More than 70% of Gen Z and younger want to be full-time creators. Creativity is no longer a subculture. This is the culture. And Colorado is at the center of this with more than 100,000 arts and culture jobs. Creative work drives tourism, property values, and makes places more livable and desirable than their neighbors. And yet the people actually doing this work tend to struggle. They're more likely than others to hold multiple jobs and do good gig work. They have a harder time getting health care than people with the same education level. And the problem is structural. In the world of normal business, things like shared benefits, capital markets, and tools for sharing ownership among collaborators are solved problems. But no such system exists for creative people. And this is what the A-Corp changes. Much of what the A-Corp law does is technically possible today as an individual if you hire the right entertainment lawyer. But that means it only exists for people who can afford one, and these benefits only exist on an ad hoc basis. It doesn't impact the wider society. The A-Corp makes the right structure available to everyone, regardless of income level and access to counsel, and creates a system that everyone can participate in. And by making a new structure rather than keeping the ad hoc system in place, it creates shared benefits not possible under existing LLC law, like access to group health care plans and shared benefits. It introduces a new instrument of the A-Corp share that helps artists formalize and build value from what they create. And it provides this platform for a new status quo with little cost to the state and without changing existing LLC law. Colorado's led the country before on this type of innovation, including benefit corporations and social enterprise law. The A-Corp is the next step in Colorado's leadership, legal infrastructure for the creative economy. Thank you.
Okay, thank you so much. Are there questions for this panel? Do we need to call this person? Sorry, there's one more witness that's here for questions only, but if we don't need to call him, we won't call him.
Senator Carson. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think this question is mostly for the mayor and the last witness. So as I'm reading this, this does appear to be an LLC, but it has, you're saying it has additional powers and things built into it, and it wouldn't require a lawyer. So who's going to develop all of this? Is the idea that the Secretary of State will develop all of these forms and so forth?
Go ahead, Yancy.
Well, no. The idea is that these forms and the structure for generating a long-form article for your A Corp will be provided by other websites. We have made one at artistcorporations.com, which takes what is in the text of the law and turns it into an easy-to-choose, drop-down, pick-which-option-you-want structure. And that's something that other platforms could offer, too, LegalZoom, Gusto. It's just a basic form. We've been talking with the Secretary of State about how they will accept those articles and how to make it work with the existing system without creating a huge cost for the state.
Okay, and you mentioned access to – oh, excuse me. That's okay, Senator. You can dialogue if you like with Mr. Schickler.
You mentioned access to health care. How would that work? What makes this different?
Yeah, thank you, Senator. So if we can – by making a new form, the A-Corp, we will go to health insurance providers and we will advocate and pursue creating group plans that A-Corps could qualify for. And in addition, we'd create an A-Corp network where artists could also belong to an A-Corp whose membership would allow people to get healthcare access through a group plan. So basically, by making artists legible and an addressable market to insurance providers, we believe that we can get them to offer a healthcare plan and allow those artists and creators to get more easy access and better access than they can today. All right. Thank you.
Are there any further questions for this panel? Okay, seeing none, thank you so much for your time today.
Thank you.
We'll go on to our next panel. If we could please welcome Daisy McGowan, Maggie Saunders, Maddie Bovard, and Sarah Darlene. And if I messed your name up, I apologize. Please correct me. And welcome. Just the one? Oh, okay. Okay. We'll go ahead and start with our in-person witness. Welcome. Please tell us your name and who you represent today and proceed with your two minutes.
Hi, good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee. My name is Sarah Darlene. I am a Denver-based artist and educator and grant writer, and I'm here today in strong support of Senate Bill 133. For the past 14 years, I've worked as a professional artist in Colorado. My practice spans painting, fiber, and large-scale installation and is rooted in the idea that art is not just something we look at but something we experience, something that can support healing and connection and well-being. Alongside my studio practice, I teach a meditative painting course at the Denver Art Museum where I've worked with hundreds of participants across ages and backgrounds. I also serve as the grants manager at the Denver Center for the Performing Arts and previously spent five years as a grant writing consultant supporting dozens of arts and wellness organizations across the state. All this to say, I've seen the ecosystem from multiple angles as an artist, an educator, an administrator, and a fundraiser. And what I can say clearly is this, our current business structures do not reflect how artists actually work or the value that we create. Many artists, myself included, operate in ways that are deeply public serving. We build community. We contribute to mental health and social well-being. We activate public space. And we partner with institutions large and small. But structurally, we are forced into a binary, either operate as a traditional for-profit business, which doesn't account for our public impact or protect us fully, or form a nonprofit, which often comes with administrative burdens that are not feasible for individual artists or small teams. There is a gap here, and artists are currently carrying that gap on our own. Senate Bill 133 offers a thoughtful and much-needed solution. The artist corporation model recognizes that artists can generate revenue and serve the public good at the same time. It creates a structure that allows for sustainability without requiring artists to abandon the community center nature of their work. For me personally this is not theoretical I am actively developing programs that bridge arts and wellness sectors work that involves partnerships with institutions public engagement and measurable social impact Right now I'm doing that with an LLC that doesn't fully support the scope of what I'm building. This build would provide a structure that aligns with the reality of my work and many artists across Colorado. Zooming out, this is also about Colorado.
I'm sorry, if you could please wrap it up over your time. Yes.
We have an opportunity to be at the forefront of rethinking how creative labor is supported in this country to recognize artists not just as individuals producing objects, but as contributors to public life and health and culture. And this bill moves us in that direction. Thank you for your time.
Okay, thank you. We'll go to Ms. McGowan. And please keep an eye on the timer so that we don't have to interrupt you. Welcome.
Thank you so much, Madam Chair and members of the committee. My name is Daisy Faudenis McGowan, and I'm here as the Executive Director of the Rhino or River North Arts District. And I'm also a professional artist, and I've had the privilege of working in the arts across Colorado for the past 30 years. A bit about the Rhino Art District. We are home to 263 creative businesses. In 2025, our district generated $10.6 million in annual sales tax revenue, and we drew 12.4 million visitors to the district. That economic vitality exists in large part because artists showed up first. They painted the walls literally. They opened studios. They built the culture that put this art district on the map. And we're very proud to have just been recognized nationally as the number six best arts district in the country by USA Today. By and large, those same artists, unfortunately, do not own a piece of what they created. And it's a story that's very common to creative districts and arts districts around the globe. Currently, Colorado could really take the lead here because there's no legal structure that allows artists to capture and share in the value they generate together. As others have said, this bill does not create a new subsidy. It simply gives artists access to the same kinds of legal tools that other sectors already have. Artists already work collectively. That's how art often gets made. This myth of the solo artist, it's really not accurate. This would bring in a structure to formalize that work, whether to protect shared ownership, bring in investment or sustain something beyond a single project. None of the existing structures, as others have noted, do that or truly fit. So I'm here in support of Senate Bill 133. Colorado artists have always been entrepreneurial. this legislation simply catches up to the reality of how they already work, and it gives them a structure to do it more sustainably and equitably. Thank you for your consideration.
Thank you so much. Ms. Saunders.
Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to present today. My name is Maggie Saunders, representing Boulder County Arts Alliance and myself. I am here to support this bill because I believe in a world where children grow up knowing that being an artist is a real job. Growing up on the East Coast, art was often the reason I went to school. Theater, improv, and writing were my protective factor through adverse experiences. Even if I couldn't find the courage to go to class, I always found the courage to walk to school, to catch the bus in time that would take a few students and I to the regional magnet school for performing arts. In 2017, I moved to Colorado, working full-time in early childhood education. I reconnected with an arts community through attending a poetry class scheduled at the Boulder Public Library with Beyond Academia Free School. In 2022, I began my role with Boulder County Arts Alliance. The artists are exhausted from the stigma they experience. In the hoops, they must jump through to prove their work has merit. Working in early childhood, I learned children are heavily influenced by the role models around them. And when there is an absence of role models representing particular traits, children learn to devalue these traits. When children lack role models who are working artists and they hear adults say, being an artist isn't a real job, children learn to devalue their creative skills in favor of more socially valued skills, production over process, competition over collaboration, and efficiency over efficacy. Adults warn children not to pursue careers in the arts for a valid reason. It is hard to make a living. The infrastructure does not exist in the same way it does for a full-time educator, engineer, or accountant. This bill creates a framework of language that considers the unique needs of professional artists. In my role at the Arts Alliance, I've seen how many artists face barriers, determining which business structure they fit into, struggling to connect with funding for their art and their unique bookkeeping needs. Boulder County Arts Alliance, established in 1966, is a 501c3 art service agency offering professional development, fiscal sponsorship, grant funding, and if the Artists Corporation Bill passes, BCAA will be delighted to be on the grounds helping artists in Boulder County understand and integrate into this new economic model. I urge you to vote yes on moving forward with the Artist Corporation Bill. Thank you for your time and consideration.
I am noticing that there's 33 more seconds, so if you don't mind. No, you're over your time. I'm sorry, you're over your time by 40 seconds. No, that's all right.
Thank you.
Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, that's great. Ms. Bovard. Mr. Bovard. I am so sorry. Mr. Bovard. Welcome.
Yeah, thank you so much for your time. My name is Maddie Bovard. I am representing myself and a nonprofit that I am co-founded called Distributed Creatives in Boulder. I moved to Colorado 16 years ago from Iowa City, Iowa, where I studied theater and English at the University of Iowa. I earned a B.A. in theater and a minor in English. I moved here specifically to grow and cultivate my career as an artist. For the past 16 years, I've been on the ground organizing our community and working in independent music festivals and just learning the inside outs of the art industry. In 2013, I got into the MFA Poetry Program at Naropa University in Boulder. A couple months in, I ended up dropping out after one professor said that there was no hope of having a sustainable career on my own original work. And I just felt like that really proved that it wasn't, the systems and the structures didn't even exist for me to support myself as a poet. And so I've been continuing to explore the edges of what is possible within the art world to figure out how to create a sustainable career. I explored NFTs extensively and have been to East Denver, which is another part of like the greater ecology of Colorado and the ecosystems. And this bill would really radically empower my ability to take my career and actually have some viable tools to structure it and to gain offer equity. And so that would give me the startup capital that I can have to run my business as a poet. My overhead on my business is basically my internet connection and a pen and paper. So with a little bit of startup capital, not even a lot, I could really do a lot. And then instead of being a struggling artist trying to support my family through gig work, I could really be an active and vital participant into the greater creative economy of Boulder and help show how Colorado can be a leader in the creative future. And I can be proud to continue to call this place home. And it's a place of thriving where me and all of my friends that are artists can all thrive together and help really create a powerful economic impact here in Colorado.
Thank you all so much. Members, are there questions for this panel? OK, folks, thanks for taking the time today in person and online to tell us about the bill. Are there any other witnesses online or in the room to testify on Senate Bill 133? Okay. We'll close witness testimony. Welcome back, sponsors. Do you have any amendments today? Do not. There will be just, we had questions for folks before. There are amendments that are coming that should get the fiscal note to a place where it does not have an impact on the budget. Too bad you didn't have it here today. It's not today. Sorry. we still have to go to finance. I don't think you would know how to do that. Yeah, you know. I'm working on it. I'm just teasing. Senator Hendrickson. Madam Chair, I move to refer with a favorable recommendation to the Finance Committee, Senate Bill 133. And before
we take the vote, members, did you, I thought he had a question for you for wrap-up. Did you want to wrap in? Quick wrap-up for the committee?
Sure, thank you, Madam Chair. You know, this is one of those things where having actually started an LLC at one point and gone through the rigmarole of getting a lawyer, going through the paperwork, the processes for this are just simply not set up for folks that are like real humans. You will probably need a lawyer even with this setup, but this provides protections that are built in from the start to this particular kind of corporation that are vital for the protection of the creative rights of the people that are making these contributions, these creative contributions to our Colorado economy. This is a blueprint that I believe will be taken up by folks across the country. This will be a standard, I think, that you will see more and more of. And even though they're, with the hiring of the right very expensive entertainment lawyer somewhere in the country, something like this could be made. This is the default for artists. This is a better way forward. Ask for an aye vote.
Senator Catlin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, my co-prime here pretty much put it all into a concise way. One of the things I wanted to say is that this gives an opportunity to people that are still struggling, an opportunity for them to build something that as they get more successful, they're able to build and have equity in what they've done in their recent past and even a long time ago. This is an opportunity for the state of Colorado to continue to be a leader around the country, which is one of the things I'm very proud of. The state of Colorado has always been a leader in a lot of different things. And you know, it's like they trained me. Don't talk too much. Just good bill. Vote yes.
senator hendrickson thank you madam chair and i'm sorry my apologies to the sponsors for jumping the gun there i had questions about routing and um then when they were answered i just made the motion so i did not mean to supersede those closing comments i'm happy to now i guess i have a question i'm happy to make the motion again or if it's still standing and appropriate, we'll let it be. Nope, I just had it answered.
Great.
Yeah. Yes. Oh, yeah, of course.
Senator Judah, I was about to call you Senator Eman. Can you help me?
And thanks for taking my questions during wrap-up. I apologize. Can you just explain to me really quick, it seems like the artist can still do all of the investments, raise equity, get benefits, all of those things, by forming entities using existing structures. so I guess my question is how does the current statute not allow them to do those things or get those benefits?
Senator Bridges.
If Taylor Swift had had an A-Corp she wouldn't have lost control of 1989. This sets a precedent this sets a standard this says artists control what they make And while they can use the financial tools available to every other LLC out there when they create this, they are no longer, as long as they stay in this configuration, they won't lose the rights that they have to their material. And again, I'm sure Taylor had some of the best lawyers in the country working for her and still lost those rights. This sets up from the very beginning. Artists can use the tools that every other company can use, but artists don't lose the rights to their creative output when they do that. And just having that as the standard having that as what it is that Colorado says is the best possible form for artists This does constitute I think a different kind of LLC and one that will be recognized by those folks who are investing And this is, by creating this law, by putting this into statute, we are essentially saying to the folks who, like record companies and art dealers, is that the process and the standard moving forward for this will be that the artist maintains those rights and that control. I know that we're on a text thread just now that Senator Henriksen sent around that there are murals that have been covered up down in Pueblo. There is already federal law that protects this, but to say that federal law is in Washington, Colorado law is here. This is more present. It will be more clear. It will be the standard. It will enable artists across this state to create those, a very specific and very artist-friendly LLC in a way that, frankly, they're just not doing right now. This creates that path. I think it is a much better path than knowing the right lawyer. This is something that I think we can provide to the people of our state, boost our economy, and increase our creative output.
Senator Judah? Senator Carson.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to vote for this because I like the entrepreneurial aspect of it. But I think the way to market it is what you said, Senator Bridges, is that this is more about artistic control and so forth because I don't think it's going to be any simpler. I mean, when I look at this, it actually looks pretty complicated to me. And so if people are making the argument out there that it's going to be simpler than a traditional LLC. As an attorney, I can tell you, forming an LLC is actually pretty simple. And you can go on the Internet and get your operating agreement and all that stuff. But I think this is a good idea, but it's complicated, and so I think we should not put the word out there that you don't need a lawyer necessarily because if I was forming one of these, I'd be recommending you get a lawyer. But that's just my personal opinion.
Senator Bridges.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I agree. This is not necessarily about obviating the need for a lawyer. There are lots of great lawyers out there doing great work. What it does is it creates a standard. It creates a blueprint, and it creates legal protections for artists to not lose control of their work. I agree. I think that's how we sell this. that if you're in an A Corp, you will always and forever be the one that is in charge of what happens with what it is that you have created. Whereas in a standard LLC, it is far too easy and far too regular and standard in just how business is done today that artists lose that control. And so this is a fantastic way to ensure, I think, what it is that we would like to have happen. And I think it's a way to protect folks who are attempting to make a living here in the state, contribute to our economy with those protections built in. So I agree. That is indeed how I would market it as well.
We're going to stand in a quick senatorial five. Thank you.
Senator Henriksen. Thank you, Madam Chair. Upon consideration from our staff, I will withdraw the motion. I will withdraw my motion.
Okay. Mr. Vice Chair, would you like to make a new motion?
I would, Madam Chair. I move that Senate Bill 133 with a favorable recommendation be sent to the Appropriations Committee.
That's another proper motion. Do we have any more? You want to try again? Ag? Should we go to Ag? Committee of the whole. No? All right. I think judiciary would be a good one. Okay. We'll try approves. Ms. Chapman, please poll the committee. Senator Carson.
Yes.
Catlin.
Yes.
Judah.
Aye.
Henriksen.
Aye.
Madam Chair. Yes. Congratulations. That vote passes unanimously. You are headed to the Committee on Appropriations. Thank you, Committee.
I'm going to hand the gavel over again to Vice Chair, to Mr. Chair Henriksen, and present my bill.
Okay.
Okay.
Madam Chair. Not right now.
I'm just Senator Daniels.
Well, you're still the chair.
So whenever you're ready.
Okay.
Thank you so much, committee members, for your time today. I am presenting House Bill 1228. This is a measure to increase access to licensure for licensed marriage and family therapists. It's pretty simple. We do have a shortage of therapists. And right now when we need to be paying attention to our family, our friends, our neighbors, and their mental health, this is a path towards some flexibility in attaining these licenses, which will then increase the number of qualified and licensed family and marriage therapists. So basically the bill simply states that graduate-level students seeking a licensure in marriage or family therapy can complete required internship or clinical hours outside of their university program if the program does not include an internship or a practicum. This allows for qualified students who have completed the necessary coursework and hours to be an eligible applicant for licensed marriage family therapists, provided they complete the appropriate number of hours. There's still a board review process, but this allows for flexibility in how the individual gains the relevant experience needed to secure a license. Fairly straightforward. I think it was, I want to say, unanimous coming out of the House, and I would really appreciate an aye vote today. Happy to try to take your questions.
Committee questions for sponsor Senator Catlin.
Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. My quick question is, are there a lot of places that don't require a practicum, and how long of a time would you be an intern or in learning? Senator Aniston. Thank you.
And I apologize, Senator Catlin. I'm not as well versed in the ins and outs of the details. I'm invested in the outcome. So I'm not sure who has come to testify today, but they may be able to answer your question or can follow up after today.
Mr. Chair, that's fine.
It was just a question that kind of bumped into my mind, but I'm good to talk to you later.
Okay, sounds good.
Thank you.
Seeing no further questions, we'll go ahead and turn it over to our witness testimony. I have the one witness signed up online is Mr. Rio Leslie. Dr. Rio Leslie, my apologies. I'm fairly certain that Dr. Leslie can answer probably about any question. I'm glad he's here today. Dr. Leslie.
Yes, I'm here, and no apologies necessary, Senator. Madam Chair, committee members, thank you for entertaining this bill. I'm particularly happy I made it to this committee. I am the director of the Colorado School for Family Therapy, which has been training mental health professionals in our state for 31 years. My wife and I are the directors, and I represent not only the school, but the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, which is a national organization that represents marriage and family therapists. I encourage you to vote yes on this bill because it solves multiple problems for mental health providers and mental health consumers. In reference to the earlier question, unfortunately, there are too many universities that are misleading therapists and telling them they can get licensed without a practicum or an internship. This bill remedies that because the persons that have earned those degrees are disproportionately in lower socioeconomic, single motherhood status and rural clinicians. So licensure is the key in our profession. If you cannot get licensed, you can't move forward professionally, and you can't create a small business, and you can't access insurance to serve clients. So this bill, though it is short, is a remedy to some big problems for both providers and consumers in our profession. And to answer the question, 700 hours are required for a practicum or an internship. This bill would allow clinicians who have already earned their master's degrees to get those 700 hours according to DORA standards. And DORA was very helpful in helping us draft this bill also. And I'm available for any questions. Thank you so much.
Committee members, questions for Dr. Leslie?
Senator Carson.
Yes, Senator.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I understand this right, Doctor, the real difference here is you're just substituting face-to-face client contact for an internship, which might actually be better, right? Is that the only difference?
That is correct, Senator. That's the only difference. Rather than doing it inside of your graduate program, you're doing it under the required DORA supervision mandates after you get your degree. As Senator Donaldson already said so eloquently, they have the education. It's just they're missing the practicum and internship piece because sometimes the students are not only misled or even lied to by the universities telling them they'd be able to get licensed by getting their degree.
Thank you.
Thank you for the question, Senator.
I don't see any further questions. So Dr. Leslie, we'll go ahead and let you go.
And thank you very much for being here and giving that information to us.
Okay.
And thank you again for consideration of the bill with your committee. Appreciate it.
Thank you. We'll go ahead and close the witness. Actually, I need to ask, is there anybody else online or in the room who would like to testify on House Bill 1228? Seeing none, we will now go ahead and close the witness testimony phase, which brings us to the amendment phase. Any amendments? No, Mr. Chair. Any amendments from committee? Seeing none, we'll close the amendment phase. Wrap up comments, Senator Danielson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. None. I'm grateful for Dr. Leslie for being here today. As you can tell, I'm not in this profession, but I support it and I believe in it, and I'm glad that this is one measure that may make it easier to get qualified, trained, and licensed professionals helping our friends and family members across the state. So thank you for your time.
Committee members, closing comments? Seeing none, Madam Chair, do you want to move your bill?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move House Bill 1228 to the Committee of the Whole.
That is a proper motion. Ms. Chapman, would you please pull the committee members?
Senator Carson.
Yes.
Patlin.
Yes.
Judock.
Aye.
Danielson.
Yes. Thank you, Chair. Yes. That passes on a vote of five to zero. Madam Chair. If there's no objection or if you need time for more questions or anything. Okay, wonderful. If there's no objection, I'd like to place this on the consent calendar. Seeing no objection, it will be placed in the consent calendar. And with that, the Business, Labor, and Technology Committee is adjourned. Thank you all.