Assembly Select Committee Native American Affairs

Start it in a couple minutes. We're actually giving Assemblymember Harbin a little bit of time to get get here. If not, we're going to go ahead and start in a couple minutes. We're going to get started in a couple minutes. We're giving assembly member Harbidian a couple minutes to try to see if he could get here and then we're going to start. That was just an update. All right, we're about ready to get started. I'd like to call to order the Select Committee on Native American affairs issue rising home costs for tribal communities California Tribes Friday, March 13, 2026 the agenda will be welcome to Barona from the chairman and a blessing from council member Then we'll have opening remarks Then our first panel will be State emergency Response on Tribal lands Our second panel will be Tribal Perspectives on Insurance Affordability and then we'll have state overview of rising costs with Insurance Commissioner Ricardo Lada and Serene Taylor, Vice President Personal Insurance Federation of California and after that we will be affording public comment to those that want to offer public comment at that time. Right now I'd like to bring up the chairman of the Barona Band of Mission Indians Tribal Government Chairman Welch.

Thank you Chairman if you join me in a prayer I'd greatly appreciate it.

together Kleinyohe and anyway family and friends and look for your love and guidance to show us a good direction for our people and all of us that come here safely.

to your loved ones and this food here before us we ask that you bless this food and give us strength

path you showed before us. Great Father, we pray to you.

Thank you so Much for welcoming us into your lands to talk about issues that are drastically important to California's first people. And today I want to welcome the select committee members, members of the Native American Caucus that are joining us on the dais today. We'll examine how the current property insurance crisis is affecting tribal communities on tribal lands across the state, as well as its impact on Indian families seeking to insure their homes on tribal lands. This is the second time a state committee hearing has been held on tribal lands in the state of California. We continue to move forward in making sure that we're hearing firsthand from California's first people on the issues that drastically affect them. This committee remains committed to strengthening the relationship between the state of California and the tribal nations who call California their home. Right now, California is in a severe property insurance crisis. Recent wildfires and other natural disasters have driven costs higher higher than the statewide average on tribal lands. According to a recent report by the Tenor center for Housing Innovation at UC Berkeley, low insurance coverage remains common in rural communities, making sure that the cost does not outweigh the homes themselves and the people. Many California tribes have seen insurance premiums rise. And in California's first People's nations, we've seen that rise higher than the state average. And especially, especially when we bring to light that the lands that tribal communities sit on were not chosen. They were forced into the areas where tribal communities at. Now we continue to make sure that the voices of California's first people move forward through this select committee. Historic state and federal policies force Indian people to live in the most secluded and rural areas of California. The perceived barren mostly during California's genocide era of the 1800s. Federal Native American Termination act during the 20th century. California referred to as the California Rancheria Termination act during the 1950s and 60s, so it wasn't that long ago. And relocation policies during the mission period. Another major topic left out of our insurance disclosures is when tribes on their trust lands and the factors of mitigation that are happening and taking place. With now fire departments on Indian reservations doing a lot of mitigation and fire protection for the residents and the housing, those things need to come to light in the state of California. No longer can we look as a state of California and address issues such as insurance and the cost of insurance and not including the voice of California's first people and their voices of how they're mitigating that on their own lands. We continue to move forward in these areas. It is essential to keep in mind that tribal communities, tribal communities do not reside in a place of their own choice that have not brought the mitigation factors on their own, but it was forced through the federal and state policies against tribal communities in the history, not only in the state of California, but in the United States. We continue to look at these issues. Today we're here and joined by members of the select committee, members of the Assembly. And now we'll open up the mic to those on the dais if they would like to say a few words.

tribe for their hospitality and welcoming this

it was mentioned today, tribal nation.

familiar their needs as well.

Thank you.

Awesome.

And look forward to the discussion today.

Thank you so much, assembly member Valencia. Now assembly member Jackson.

Thank you so much, Assemblymember Jackson. Assemblymember harbidian.

We'd also just like to thank Chairman

It's an honor to be here on

their lives and also deal with a

Thank you so much. Assembly Member Harbidian, Assembly Member Siavo.

Thank you so much, Assembly. As now we'll move to our first panel State Emergency Response on Tribal Lands. Deputy Director Frank Bigelow, Community Wildfire Preparedness and Mitigation, California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.

Thank you so much for your testimony. Is there any questions? Comments from the Dais Assembly Member Valencia?

Thank you for the nice comments about the department. Certainly appreciate that. And the recognition of our continued collaboration. And I think that as a department, we are 100% invested in working with our tribal partners, and those are certainly efforts that we can explore. I'm not aware at this moment of that taking place, but that is a fantastic idea that I can take back to our executive team and we can get back to you on what our plan is.

Right.

Absolutely.

I want to thank Assemblyman Valencia for that idea, because obviously those of us who have state lands in our dish, in our districts, and the collaboration between cities and Cal Fire, certainly those reimbursement programs do exist. And I think we should take a A deep look at that, it seems to me. First of all, I want to think about first, the distinction from those tribal nations who have their own fire departments and those who do not. And what is the percentage of your work in terms of engaging with those who do not have their own fire departments and departments who can help with some of that mitigation work? How closely are you working with those tribal nations?

You know, there's not a time that goes by when I'm fortunate enough to be allowed to come on tribal lands and hear the stories of the past where fires have taken place and Cal Fire was nowhere to be seen and when calls for help were made and Cal Fire just simply didn't respond. I know this is a different Cal Fire than those days. However, that still doesn't mean that there is a moral obligation to atone for that. And it is, I'm of the opinion that we need to be more engaged with tribes to say how we can make up for that loss, loss of resources during those times of need and how we can make sure that we actually admit that we have a responsibility for helping more fire mitigation that happens. And so I would like us to see more of a plan from Cal Fire on how Cal Fire can, number one, atone for the neglect. But then also how can we provide more assistance and coordination with tribal governments? And I know you've already done done some work on that. Can you tell me about opportunities where there might be some additional room of improvement when it comes to Cal Fire and the services they provide?

those. Some of us sit on the budget committee and we're aware of various ways the administration puts proposals in the budget trailer bills, budget change proposals of the like. How many of those have Cal Fire submitted to the legislature to be able to strengthen tribal support?

I would appreciate it and I would encourage you to think about as many of them as you can. Right. To be able to propose into the budget so that we can continue to be supportive. But thank you for being here. Thank you, Mr.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you so much for being here for your report. And really, you know, great to hear about the efforts that are happening at Cal Fire. But in your last comment, it's clear that some of the good news isn't getting out to folks, is there? Are you seeing that through a low uptake on grants? Are the grants not all being applied for? You have money left over? What is the. What is kind of the situation? Rent now.

Do you think in addition to getting the word out and better communicating with tribes, do you think that there are barriers in terms of the qualifications or do you think that there are other barriers that need to be looked at specific to tribes?

And hopefully the deputy chiefs in Southern California that you mentioned specifically can help be that liaison and do education pieces if there are tribes that need help navigating it for the first time that this could be part of. Are you utilizing those positions as part of the outreach and education around the grant opportunities?

One last question on. I don't, I'm just curious. You know, a lot of the discussion today is going to be around insurance and you know, you all Cal Fire and in partnership with the tribes in instances as well are working a lot in the fire mitigation space. How much are you kind of in communication with insurers or is there like, is there kind of sharing of information or anything that in that work leads to, we hope lower insurance rates Right. It's not only a benefit to safety and all of the other reasons that we need to do, you know, fire mitigation, but a lot of fire folks are taking up mitigation practices to try to lower their insurance rates and, you know, not always seeing the results of that. But are there any conversations that you're having hearing that some of that work is going to be beneficial in that space, or are you not really in those conversations at all?

Thank you so much, Assemblymember harbidian.

Well, I would have to get back to you with the exact number of acres treated around that. I don't have that in front of me, but I would love to get that number for you to be able to articulate exactly how many acres have been treated around tribal lands.

I don't. I'm not from the San Diego area and I didn't get that information in front of me, so I apologize.

How much of our budget, Cal Fire's budget is allocated towards fuel mitigation, defensible space clearance, brush clearance for tribal in and around tribal lands throughout the state.

How much of Cal Fire's budget each year is spent on fuels mitigation?

Okay.

Thank you, assembly member Harbidian. And I want to thank you, Director Bigelow, and all the Cal fire men and women who keep the state of California safe. But I do want to dive in a little bit more into the tribal component. You mentioned 12,000 acres of tribal lands. Was that that burned in the state of California, or can you elaborate a little more on that?

And there's several dollars from the state of California going through to work with tribal governments on tribal management teams. Can you discuss a little more what

And those are reactive measures versus preventative measures.

Thank you. And more on the preventive measures. Is that ongoing throughout the year with the now co management agreements that are moving forward to try to make sure that those are agreements that are between the state of California and tribal governments?

What are some of those preventative measures?

Certainly. And understand the cultural preventive measures that are in place culturally as far as maintaining the land, maybe control burns or even vegetation clearance. Right. Those things is what's the informational knowledge that was meant around the co management bill to share that information. I want to dive a little bit more into your work with IBHS in other parts of the state of California. You mentioned that working with them, they start to understand the mitigation features or factors that are put in other communities in the state of California that could impact then the premiums that are being cost to the homeowner for insurance for their homes. Is that correct?

Can you elaborate a little more on what some of those mitigating factors are that you've worked with IBHS on? Yes.

achieve that goal in putting these factors in place. Do you know if there's been any work with tribal governments in the state of California to go through some of these hardening factors that then could actually come down and lower some of the rates if homes are built to that standard.

And it's a pilot program now that includes different areas, different cities.

Thank you. We'd be interested, and I think with my colleagues on the dais also on that pilot program to see how the insurance rates actually did come down by some of those mitigation features that are there. And I guess the question is, you know, taking back to the legislature is why not? Why haven't we included a tribal government in into that pilot program? That's things that we'll be taking back from this hearing itself. I do want to also I have another question on the grants. You mentioned that those that have been awarded grants basically know how to maneuver through the grant system itself. How do we get tribal governments to be able to not one just apply, but actually get awarded those grants? Is there a need for grant writing specialists, specialty to go after these grants?

Well, thank you so much for that. Yes. Assemblymember Valencia.

I could get that for you in a couple minutes. I have it in a spreadsheet where the number of tribes just recently.

And if it's an exam, just a basic number, if there's 10 tribes that are applying to or securing the grant funds, then we need to figure out why those others aren't. Is it a procedural challenge? Is it a logistical challenge? Right.

So.

Thank you, Deputy Director. I would encourage Cal Fire to also take into consideration at the forefront of this process the difference between a sovereign nation and maybe these other applications that are going through the process as well. Right. And consider maybe why they're not providing the same type of information to secure and protect their own sovereignty and or maybe a different process due to their cultures and traditions. And would appreciate that consideration as well.

Well, thank you so much for your testimony, Deputy Director Bigelow, and certainly just taking back and following up on my colleague's comments. Certainly there's a boilerplate type of way to apply for the grants, but when you deal with tribal governments, I think the openness to understand how the government functions itself and being open to some of the criteria that they could present while protecting and honoring the tribal sovereignty that there. I want to thank you for your testimony as now we'll move to our next panel. Our next panel is tribal perspectives on insurance affordability. Chairman raymond welch, barona band of mission indians chairman isaiah vivanco, sevoba band lucena indians chairwoman erica m. Pinto, hamu indian village of california chairman robert smith, southern california tribal chairman's association fire chief ken krimsky, barona fire department. Fire chief jason keeling, pechanga fire department. Well, thank you so much. Speaking in order, we'll start with the Chairman Welch Barona Band of Mission Indians.

building.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, chairman Ramos. And thank you, select committee members, for being here today and listening to such an important issue within our communities. My name is Isaiah Ivanko. I have the honor of serving as chairman for the Sabo band of Luzeno Indians. We reside on just about 8,000 acres of land held in trust for us in the foothills of the San Jacinto mountains, located in riverside county just north of here. We have about 1700 members with about 260 homes on our reservation. About eight years ago, we established a housing program where over that time frame, we've built about 60 new homes within our community. In about 2014, we established our own fire department to help mitigate the risk of fire in that community. In our community. We've since established a new station in 2019, state of the art station, housed with five, five trucks, including ladder truck, brush truck. Created a partnership with Riverside county and cal Fire.

I forget the name. We. We also are very proud of the efforts our fire department has taken recently. In the public protection classification, we've gone from a three to a two, which helps your insurance not only should mitigate the cost of insurance, but helps protection of fire in your areas. We've worked with Edison, we've worked with other agencies to come into our homelands and really mitigate the risk of fire. You look at some of the foothills that we live in, we've created barriers on our own. We've gone out and our tribe has been fortunate enough to purchase a bulldozer. We've created our own fire breaks. We go out yearly and take on that task with our fire department and our wue crew. A grant that we applied for and did receive. We talked about grants earlier in the program, and I think some of the issue with when you obtain the grants are really, you have environmental issues and some things, some of those issues with those grants that really prohibit some of the mitigation that can be done on tribal lands. So those are obstacles that we face. We look to this committee and the state for support in helping our endeavor in achieving an affordable home insurance so we can continue to build new homes on the lands that we are, I would say, forced to live on. We embrace those lands because they are our communities. But it is rather burdensome when we have fires of the nature that we've had in the state. Of California ravaged through some of our areas. And we know that, you know, insurance providers are having to face that

and it's costing tens and billions of dollars. But we have done the work at home. We have done the work to create and maintain a safe environment, to make sure that our communities are safe from fire, to make sure that our homeowners are able to go out and look and hopefully achieve an affordable insurance to protect their, their home and their resources. And yet we are still not seeing that. Just recently my son went through the process of trying to obtain homeowners insurance for a mobile home and it came back around $8,000 a year, which the payments were going to be on a yearly basis, about a third of what his mortgage was. Very, very disturbing. When we see all the work that we've done, some of the thoughts I've had is, you know, a lot of these insurance companies, sometimes they're sitting behind a desk looking at paperwork that is presented to them in the locations of our homelands and maybe making decisions based on what they see on Google Earth or topography, a picture online that says, well, it looks to be in the mountain area. They're classified as X, Y or Z. Come out. You know, I wish the insurance companies would actually come out to our homelands and talk to our fire departments and our chief and our public works department and see the efforts that we've gone through to mitigate the risk of fire. I mentioned Edison. Edison has come out and worked with us and installed a high density line to combat fires. When we have wind events, we are prone to PSPs events even though we have that high density line, but they have been minimized. Now recently I've met with the CEO of Edison and he's informed me that if it starts whistling, more than likely your power is going to be shut off. That's rather burdensome to us because we have, I mentioned 260 homes. A number of those homes belong to our elders who sometimes require power for medical devices. So, you know, I think it's important that insurance companies come out, really look at our communities and the efforts that we've taken, you know, taking pride in mitigating these efforts to reduce the risk of fire so we don't have to pay these high premiums. Yeah, it's very difficult. I'm glad that the insurance commissioner and his team are here today to hear some of these requests and some of these ideas. I had a great discussion just prior to the start of this meeting, but I would look forward to the discussion today and look forward to questions and hopefully we can come to some type of resolution where the state, the tribes can all be on the same page working with insurance companies to ensure that we have the ability to obtain insurance as was meant to be. So so thank you for having me and thank you for the time today.

Morning Chairman Ramos, and also the members of the California Assembly Select Committee. My name is Erica Pinto and I have the honor to serve as a tribal chairwoman for the Humul Indian Village of California, part of the Kumeyaay Nation, whose stewardship of the lands of present day San Diego stretches back to time immemorial. I appreciate the invitation with you to speak with you today on the matter of significant consequence for tribal nations across California. The rising costs and decreasing availability of homeowners insurance and the profound impacts this crisis has on on tribal sovereignty and housing security cannot be overstated. I'm here today to share not only my tribe's perspective, but also to represent the concerns of many tribal nations across California who are experiencing an insurance market that threatens public safety, community resilience and tribal economic development. California's homeowners insurance market is undergoing a structural crisis. Escalating wildfire risk, climate driven disasters, retreating insurers and rising costs have converged in a way that has resulted in high premium rates and coverage scarcities across the state. In many regions, premiums have more than doubled in recent years and major carriers continue to seek substantial increases. Major insurers that were once a primary source of coverage for many Californians have substantially raised rates, paused renewals or exited markets altogether due to the wildfire exposure and escalating costs. Meanwhile, the California Unfair plan. Oops. The California Fair Plan, designed and insurer of last resort for property coverage, has seen its roles expand band and its premiums adjusted sharply upward with coverage that is often in scope. Coincidentally, I received from my California Fair Plan a list of tasks to do to decrease the price for the cost of my rising insurance that I plan to do. While I have already done it, these trends, magnified statewide, inevitably affect tribal governments and tribal members whether living on the reservation lands, ancestral homelands or in off reservation communities by driving up the cost of basic protection against loss and stifling housing security for families and tribal enterprises alike. For decades, the Hamul Indian Village of California faced an unprecedented constraint. Our reservation consisted of only 6 acres, among the smallest in the United States, which limited our tribal government's ability to develop housing to reestablish community cohesion and serve tribal families on our lands. In December 2024, the United States Congress passed legislation that took 172 acres of land into federal trust status for the Humul Indian Village. This legislation greatly expanded the tribe's trust land base and transformed our prospects for providing tribal housing oversight overnight. This milestone empowers the Humul Indian Village to finally plan for essential housing, cultural preservation, health resources, economic development, and tribal government infrastructure in ways that previously were not possible. However, the timing of this land expansion amid a severe homeowners insurance crisis presents a new and urgent set of challenges that jeopardize the sustainability and affordability of future housing and community projects. Importantly, the lands that the tribe presently occupies are our ancestral homelands, which hold deep cultural, historical, and spiritual significance for our people. Relocating to another area to mitigate wildfire risk and avoid increased insurance costs simply is not an option for my people. Our connection to our ancestral homelands is inseparable from who we are as a tribal nation. Insurance protection is fundamental to safe housing, economic investment, and building resilience in the face of disasters. For tribal communities seeking to construct homes and essential facilities on trust lands, the current insurance landscape poses several barriers, including higher premiums that threaten affordability, reduced market participation by major carriers, and compounding climate risks. As homeowners insurance costs rise, often doubling or more. In wildfire prone regions, the financial burden of ensuring tribal homes and community buildings grows. High premiums can inflate housing costs, strain tribal budgets, and deter investment in critical infrastructure. With insurers scaling back in high risk regions or withdrawing entirely, tribal communities may find fewer options for comprehensive coverage at reasonable rates. This can force reliance on the California Fair plan, which historically offers limited policy options at higher costs, undermining full financial protection. I'm with you, Chairman. I think the tribes need to get together and and create our own insurance for the state of California. Tribal lands in California, like surrounding regions, face increasing wildfire, drought, and extreme weather exposure. These escalating risks not only raise insurance costs but also increase the financial stakes of insufficient coverage, especially for tribal communities seeking to preserve cultural property, heritage sites, and sacred landscapes. Together, these conditions make it more difficult for tribes to execute housing development plans with confidence and challenge long term community stability by threatening to erode the economic feasibility of self determined growth. Insurance insecurity also translates into broader social and cultural consequences. Homeownership and tribal community housing are essential to tribal sovereignty as tribal housing can anchor cultural continuity, ensure intergenerational knowledge transfer, and engender a stable family life. When insurance becomes prohibitively expensive or unavailable, tribal members may be forced to seek housing outside our communities, undermining efforts to to revitalize tribal homelands and traditions. Tribal cultural sites, ceremonial spaces and ancestral landscapes require protection that extends beyond simple rebuilding costs. Inadequate insurance can leave irreplaceable cultural assets vulnerable or unprotected. In the face of disaster. Tribal governments that are seeking to develop affordable housing, community facilities, services must navigate a market where rising insurance expenses increase project risk, raise operating costs and reduce access to capital, all of which disproportionately affects communities within already limited financial leverage. The Humul Indian Village appreciates this committee's focus on the insurance challenges facing tribal nations. In closing, I respectfully suggest that policymakers encourage solutions, expand coverage options and stabilize costs for vulnerable communities, including tribal lands. Lawmakers should work to ensure that insurance regulatory frameworks account for tribal lands unique history, cultural and geographic context and do not inadvertently penalize or exclude tribal communities. We ask that assembly members continue to work with tribal leaders, community stakeholders to explore targeted programs or subsidies that enhance insurance affordability for tribal housing and infrastructure project on trust lands. Thank you again for this opportunity to testify. I'm just a lowly tribal leader in front of assembly people who can make the change for tribal people and tribal nations. Thank you very much.

Good morning Chairman Ramos and assembly members on the board. Thank you very much for having us here today. I just want to give a little. I've been in the fire service for 50 years. I've San Diego county growing up started with the California Division of Forestry at the time which is now Cal Fire. A career at Lakeside and I've been have the opportunity to serve as fire chief here for the last 17 years in Barona. As Chairman Welch had mentioned, our department was formed in 1998. Here we have 24 members. We staff a type 1 type 3 engine paramedic ambulance as well as housing OES type 3 engine that we provide mutual aid throughout the state. I've served on and serve on incident management team with Cal Fire and the Forest Service. We have agreements and great partnerships with Cal Fire with the Forest Service or signers to the state mutual aid as well as San Diego County Auto aid. So we go and help our neighbors as well as our neighbors come and help us. I also serve as vice president on the California Tribal Fire Chiefs and vice president for the San Diego County Fire Chief. So we're very engaged in our communities, our county and our state. We have a great partnership. We did a controlled burn last year, 160 acres with Cal Fire. Currently we are doing a fuels project here with Cal Fire, San Diego County. We're providing personnel as long as our personnel to do some fuel reduction here on the reservation. We have applied for grants. We did apply for the last grant through the tribal for fuel reduction and were rejected due to the fact that I don't think there's enough funds. A lot of tribes put in for that. The competition is stiff. So you know, I think more money out for doing more fuel reduction will help our members. Also every year, annually we go out and we, we clear fuels around the houses of our elders up to 100ft and we probably do up to 100 houses that we do every year for the elders that can't do that. Our firefighters go out, we buy the equipment and go and serve. So I think the insurance industry needs to come out and personally survey the individual houses that the folks that are clearing around their houses, I think they, from my perspective, just block us into one block. You're in a hazard area, you're going to pay the high rates and you can call them. I know because personally I'm in that vote. They won't come out and look at it and I think that's unfair. I think that they need to come out and take a look and see that the work that we're doing to try and mitigate the hazards to our constituents, our personnel and our tribal members. Thank you very much.

Good morning Chairman Ramos and members of the committee. My name is Jason Keeling. I serve as the Fire Chief of the Pechanga Fire Department. I'm also the current president of the Tribal Fire Chiefs association and the Tribal Chiefs branch representative for the California Fire Chief Association. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this informational hearing examining the rising cost of homeowners insurance across California tribal nations. Across our state tribes are experiencing significant increases in homeowners insurance premiums and in some cases a complete loss of coverage. These rising costs place an additional burden on our families who are working hard to protect their homes and communities. For many tribal families, insurance is not simply a financial product. It is a critical safeguard that ensures stability, recovery after disasters and long term community resilience. From the general safety perspective, this issue is closely tied to wildfire risk and preparedness. Tribal governments are adopting forward looking policies and making significant investments to reduce wildfire risk and strengthen community resilience. At Pechanga, our fire department provides robust fire protection services to our community, including our Class 3 ISO rating. We also maintain a 11 member full time fuels management program that works year round to reduce hazardous vegetation to improve defensible state space across the reservation. In addition, we operate a comprehensive fire prevention division that assists residents, businesses and tribal departments in building or retrofitting homes, commercial buildings and and infrastructure to meet Pechanga's Wildland Urban Interface Code and Fire Code. Despite these proactive efforts, many tribal communities continue to face increasing insurance premiums or the threat of policy cancellations. This rises an important concern when tribal governments adopt and enforce strong building and fire safety standards and when homeowners voluntarily take steps to harden their homes. Those actions should be recognized, incentivized, not overlooked. Instead, tribes are effectively penalized for being located in rural or forest parts of the state. Insurers should not be permitted to cancel coverage or increase rates. For tribal communities that adopt and enforce model Wildland urban Interface building codes or for families who voluntarily build or retrofit their homes in accordance with those modeled codes, meaningful governmental investments must be recognized. Communities are actively investing in wildfire mitigation and resilient construction should see those efforts reflected in a fair, stable insurance coverage. Tribal fire departments and governments possess deep knowledge of our lands and the risks we face. Our communities are taking meaningful steps to reduce those risks and we stand ready to continue partnering with state leaders, insurers, policymakers to ensure that mitigation efforts are recognized and incorporated into risk assessments. I appreciate the committee's willingness to bring this issue to light and I hear directly from the tribal leaders who are experiencing these challenges firsthand. Addressing the rising costs and accessibility of homeowners insurance will require collaboration among state leaders, insurers, tribal governments to ensure solutions are equitable and reflect the proactive investments tribal communities are making protect the lives, property, natural resources and cultural sensitive sites. Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony today. I look forward to participating in discussions and working together to find a meaningful solution that supports the safety and resilience in our communities. Thank you.

Let me get some questions together. I mean, what I'm hearing from the fire chiefs and tribal chairmans and chairwoman is that mitigation is happening, but it's not being recognized and then you're not seeing it reflected in insurance costs. Right. Insurance premiums. This is something I've been hearing about for years now, since I've been elected, probably four years ago. And are you able to share some specific examples of things that have been done, you know, some stories of and examples of that work happening and then what happened or has not happened so that we can like better understand what's, what's going on and what's going into the mitigation. What kind of mitigation is happening, what kind of out of pocket costs are people having to pay and then not seeing that come back to them? I think that would be really illustrative of us better understanding the issue.

Yeah, I give a couple examples. I think for me, I think the insurers, when you're going out to assess the residence or the dwelling that you're insuring, it should be done individually. Each assessment should be independent to that structure, not just blanket. You live in a high fire danger area, so you all just automatically get this insurance rate. I don't believe that's happening. I don't believe that the insurers are coming out and assessing that property and the clearances that are around there, the home hardening that's maybe been done to that residence. So they're not receiving the benefits of their investment to protect their residents. I will give you a couple examples of how beneficial a fuel management program is. Is, you know, fires that maybe occurred 15 to 20 years ago on Pechanga usually became large fires. You know, 5,000, 10,000 up to. We had a 50,000 acre fire in 1999. Those fires now we have the ability to extinguish those within less than an acre, maybe an acre, because of the fuel reduction efforts that have been done in the community. So you see the benefits of that work when we do have small fire start for whatever reasons. So that in itself is beneficial to our community members and to us as firefighters. So we will always continue to provide those mitigation efforts. I just think that it would be beneficial if insurers could reward the tribes as well and tribal nations that are putting those efforts forward to protect their communities.

No, I just, I just wanted to add on behalf of Seboba, I mentioned earlier some of the things efforts that we take, you know, purchasing the bulldozer and creating our own fire lines, but with the WUE crew, we're able to go out and also maintain firebreaks around homes and stuff like that. So I think one of the most things that you ask about, you know, as a whole, what are we specifically looking to do? And you look at this public, public protection classification PPC program is what insurances look at to mitigate, to really establish your risk factor of fires. And our fire department and our WUE crew and our public works department have gone through great lengths to mitigate the risk of fire. To the extent that, you know, the company comes in, they look at your needed fire flows, your water supplies, your fire department, if you have an emergency communications department and we have all those established there at SEBOVA and we're very proud of our fire department and their efforts to get our classification down from A three to a two. I look at the report that was given to me and they the report is done with over 40,000 different communities in the country. And just taking a look at that and we're in the top 2500 of that 40,000 communities were looked at their risk factors and we're in the top 2500. So when you look at that as a small tribe, we're a tribe of 8000 acres, 1700 members, run by a government. We take those matters serious. You know, we look at our homelands as those are our homelands and we want to protect them at all costs. We've always been taught to be good stewards of our lands that we have, and that is a part of it, making sure that, you know, we can mitigate the risk of fire, protect cultural resources. At the same time as well as now we look at it with the growing need for housing, make sure that we can hopefully use this effort that we put forth to protect our homelands and put it into the insurance's hands to say, you guys have done the work now. You guys are afforded some quality insurance at a decent 1 rate. I think that's what we're not getting. And it's frustrating to some extent because tribes do put in a lot of resources to these efforts, yet only to have their individual members, when they reach out to the insurance companies, either be one turned down or two be hit with large premiums. So it is a frustrating process. But tribes, trust me, are doing what's right and we always have and will.

Can you explain more obviously?

Yeah. And it sounds like there needs to be a better kind of assessment and consideration for the uniqueness of tribal lands and making sure that there's flexibility in these grant dollars to make it work. So that, you know, the important work that you guys have been doing that is clearly making a huge difference in tribal communities can continue. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. More so just some comments. Very much appreciate the context that the tribal leaders and their respective fire departments are providing for us today. It just adds to the more macro issue that we're having as a state. Goes without saying that the insurance, insurance Insurance system is, is at a crossing point where it's just not working for Californians because of the recent fires, the liability that it exists, and unfortunately the lack of keeping up with the premium need over the years. But this information is extremely helpful for us to ensure that native and indigenous voices are included when these decisions are being made. And I would just like, like to make my commitment as a member of the insurance committee to lead on that fight in addition to other colleagues here as well. So I look forward to the future conversations and ensuring that tribal communities have access to quality insurance and also within the system that fits their needs. Thank you.

Chair. Thank you all very much for your testimony. You know, when I'm trying to solve a problem, I'm always trying to look and find out, well, what are other people or other groups doing to help solve this problem. And just this week, Mr. Chair, we had a budget sub two committee meeting and we were talking about foster homes who have had increased insurance and of course they received state funding and just like most the time, the rates don't keep up with the cost of operating. And so last year we approved an insurance mitigation fund for them where they said, okay, we're going to, you can apply for additional money to be able to close the gap in terms of insurance. And so it seems to me that this could be one of those things that we might be able to do for tribal lands and its members, that if there are tribal tribes who need to help fill in the gap, if they have members whose homes are on tribal lands and they need to fill in that gap because of increased insurance due to the fire risk of, of the lands that are surrounding it, that a fund can be set up for tribes to be able to draw down from, to be able to help their individual members as well as the tribal operations as a whole, to help fill in that gap. Would something like that be helpful as a transition? As we try to write this long term and then there's short term things that we should be doing, but it seems like this, this could be one of those short term things where we actually have an example of it actually being done in other areas of the state's budget, do you think this might be helpful at least as a short term solution to help keep people stable, keep tribal land stable.

I think at this point, Assembly JACKSON we're willing to look at any resolve, even if it's a short term fix, something to work towards the long term.

Mr.

Well, it happened right outside this building. It's the field right across the way right there that was a burn. And yes, it will help the surrounding communities. You know, unfortunately it's not a matter of if a fire is going to happen, is when it's going to happen. You know, we live in fire prone area. So the fire is going to come through with the prescribed burn, is going to slow the spread of the fire and allow our fire department to get on top of it quicker.

Yes, it was just recently. My son is in the process of bringing a mobile home to the reservation. And you know, going out and getting insurance was not the easiest of things to do. I mean no one would really. Actually there were a lot of calls made to different providers. A lot of them just flat out said, no, we're not going to answer that call. We're not going to provide a service to you. One only Amarin who is native owned. And because of the relationship we have as a tribe with Amarin as a blanket insurer of our properties, they're able to provide homeowners insurance to our members. Even then it comes at A cost that is kind of outrageous, in my opinion, until you get down and really do the dirty work and see what is involved within that quote. They actually went out and provided another quote. I think it's the fair plan, California fair plan. And it came back a little bit cheaper, but it was just. It was bare bones compared to what the insurance provider was willing to provide. So it is rather frustrating that none of the other companies would even come out. You know, the big ones, Mercury, Hartford, Safeco, all those big insurers are just. They're just kind of leaving the state and tribes out to dry. And my biggest thing is like, you know, we still, last time I checked, we live in California. And California is known for what the big one, it's coming earthquake. These guys aren't charging extreme premiums on earthquakes yet. And, you know, we can't do nothing to stop an earthquake here. We can stop fires, we can stop the threat of our homes burning and mitigate those expenses. Yet they're still leaving. They're still providing us homeowners insurance or homeowners insurance for earthquakes, but for fires.

They're not supporting us. So we are making those efforts. We are mitigating those factors, but still no one's answering the call.

For Verona? We provide that information when our members are getting re up for their insurance. So we provide that information voluntarily to them. That all the work that, you know, fire department does and all the mitigation that we go through to protect them.

I'm not 100% sure it's Boba. I have our staff here. I'd have to ask if it is handed to them, but if it's not, I would like to make sure and again I mentioned earlier, I would like to make sure that they get this information as well as hopefully get them to come out and physically look at the properties. Because all so many, so many times they're doing it again from a desktop and Google Earth and looking at classification that you may have on paper as a zone and say this is a high risk zone, but not really coming out and looking at the factors that went into mitigating the chance of a fire coming through. So if we don't, we will. That is a great point to bring up to the insurance companies. Appreciate it.

Correct. So first I'll start with. In 2005, all of my tribal members were relocated to make way for our economic development, to improve our lives. We all relocated throughout San Diego County. We built our economic development. We opened in 2016 and generated some revenue. With that revenue, we were able to purchase 172 acres of land that we went through the act of Congress to get it placed into trust. It was Congressman Issa and also Padilla, Senator Padilla, who carried the bill for us. It took about one year for that to take place, as opposed to going through the BIA process and taking years and years because my tribal members wanted to come home. We seen from 2005 through Covid until now, because we're still not home yet, but we seen the effects that not living in a community with each other has had on my tribe. And I'm feeling those effects today. So we are. Time is of the essence to bring our people home. And now you have a level of another layer of a barrier, obtaining insurance that seems unattainable. And you know, we want to protect our assets, but will we be able to? I don't know. One of the topics that came up in one of our general tribal council meetings was, historically, my people have not had, or any American Indian folks have not been able to enjoy the American dream and have assets. You know, land is our asset, and we've had no land until now. And so we're. It's a. It's a race to get our people here except that barrier of insurance, which I hope this committee will continue to advocate like you have done so well at Assemblymember Ramos, and make that insurance attainable, affordable and quality. Because we did not choose to live here. And we are the closest tribe to downtown San Diego, to any metropolitan, to healthy foods. But all the other tribes, when you take a bird's eye view in the state of California, are on the fault lines, are in undevelopable lands, not by our choice. And so I hope that we can attain these insurances to protect our assets, to grow and sustain our homes, sustain our assets, sustain our lands. Because we do partner with Caltrans. We want to protect our people. And you're right, the benefits go beyond the borders of Humul. The community. The community benefits when we benefit. And I'm going to say this and mess it up. A rising tide lifts all ships and so when we do that, the community benefits. So that's where we are.

Correct? Yeah, we do the protective, you know, like I said, we respond to fires in and off the reservation. We have been engaged in fuel reduction, working with our partners, Cal Fire, and reducing the fuels. Like I said, we go out and do that. The hardening, we educate our tribal members on hardening their houses so that they can resist the fire when it comes through. I haven't personally worked with the agency. The council does that. I report to the council. So they would be the ones that could answer that. Chairman Welch.

And for Pechanga, you know, we have done multiple projects partnering with Cal Fire to benefit both Pechanga and the outlying surrounding communities. You brought up a good point. You know, the efforts made by Pechanga in, in our ISO rating being a 3, we sit on the Riverside County, San Diego county border. We have a lot of unincorporated residents that live in those communities. We are the closest fire department. We are their fire department. Although they are off reservation and not, you know, members of the Pechanga tribe. They receive the benefits of that ISO rating from us because it's done geographically for an area. So there are a lot of benefits provided to the outside communities for the work that we're doing to mitigate our lands. And we have provided ordinances, we have tribal approved ordinances that require certain types of home hardening for different types of structures that are built within the community. And those are usually done, you know, voluntarily. But we strongly recommend specifically, as we move forward in development and in new development, and we do do a lot of retrofitting and things of that nature. So a lot of proactive education needs to go into the community to help them better understand what these efforts mean for them. Hopefully, with the return in insurance premiums is what we hope. And we do have a drafted letter that is Set to provide hydrant locations, level of fire service, protection and ordinances that we can give to our community members so they can provide to their insurers.

Thank you for that. And to the tribal fire chiefs, as the president of that organization, is there workability, mutual understanding with state local agencies within the fire industry as far as the preparedness, preventive measures that is actually happening within Indian country?

And with the tribal chiefs, I believe. And you could elaborate a little bit more on this. Those responding mutual aid calls on and off tribal lands.

So again, go ahead and Barone is the same way. Recently last year I was personally on the Eaton fire with our engine strike team leader, five engines from here. So I was engaged in the Eaton fire. Been on fires all over the state and we're engaged in that. We provide a lot of aid to other communities. Communities we have received aid. Like I said, we had the cedar fire in 2003, the witch fire 2007, as well as just local response initial attack fires that start here and around the community surrounding the reservation where we respond off to Ramona, Lakeside, that's going to impact us. It's really. There's not one fire department in the state that can handle all the possibilities of earthquake, fire, flooding. So we all need to do it together. And that's why state of California has such a great mutual aid program. I think in the world we're probably right at the top. A lot of folks from different countries come to study California on how we provide protection for our people. And with yourselves in the legislature backing us up in that, we really appreciate that.

Thank you.

Some of the tribal members and leaders that spoke, if they have any questions, we'll be more than happy to answer those. I know some of them, some members that are here might have already heard some of this testimony and understand some of the good work that we've been doing. And before I begin, I just want to thank the firefighters that are in the room and the first responders who have done God's work during these last couple years to protect California, Californians from the megafires and gigafires that we have been going through since 2019. And so I tailored my remarks really to talk to you about a lot of the issues that we've been facing in California, but a lot of the solutions that many of the tribal leaders and the firefighters brought forth today. And to tell you that a lot of the issues that were brought forth, we actually have a lot of solutions for. So Chairman Ramos, members of the select committee and tribal leaders and our guests, thank you for the invitation to join you today and thank you to Barona Band of Mission Indians for welcoming us to your ancestral lands. It is an honor to be here again in a place where history, culture and resilience are lived every day. Today I want to walk you through three the reality tribal nations are facing, the reforms underway, and what relief will look like in the months ahead. Before I walk, I talk about the solutions. We must acknowledge the simple truth. It is not an accident that tribal nations face heightened climate risk. For generations, federal land use policies, forced relocation and development patterns push tribal communities into the most climate vulnerable areas of our state, especially the wildland urban interface, where wildfire risk is the highest and insurance markets are the most fragile. These decisions created the conditions tribal nations really confront today and that you heard from in the previous panel. The impacts are not abstract. They show up in soaring premiums, sudden non renewals and families losing coverage on the very lands their ancestors have stewarded since time immemorial. Understanding how we got here is really essential and it allows us to build solutions grounded in truth, partnership and respect for what is the most important sovereignty. Across California, tribal nations are experiencing the sharpest edge of our insurance crisis. Tribal environmental studies from the Karuk Tribe, the Yurok Tribe and the Intertribal Tribal Council show that climate change has intensified drought, reduced snowpack and increased extreme fire weather. These conditions make catastrophe catastrophic wildfire more likely and insurers are reacting by raising premiums and withdrawing entirely. Tribal leaders have shared stories as you heard of premiums doubling or tripling non renewals with no explanation. Insurers refusing to recognize tribal mitigation delays caused by misunderstanding of tribals jurisdiction. These are not isolated incidents. They reflect really a systematic market failure. And this aligns with what other international experts, including the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which I am a member of the oecd, have warned. Climate insurance disruption is really accelerating worldwide and frontline communities are hit first and the hardest. And OECD research shows that after major catastrophes, insurance markets typically take three to five years to stabilize. California is in year one of that recovery and the work we are doing now will determine how quickly we stabilize. One of the few national bodies working directly on these issues is our national association of Insurance Commissioners, the neicus. Through our American Indian and Alaska Native Liaison Committee. I am a proud member of that as the California Insurance Commissioner, as one of the leaders shaping its priorities, I have worked to ensure that California's tribal nations are not only represented but centered in the national discussions about insurance access, climate resilience and market fairness. The committee identifies insurance deserts, documents systematic barriers, elevates tribal mitigation practices and ensures tribal leaders have a seat at the table when national reforms are debated. This is not symbolic work. It is producing research, hosting listening sessions and informing state and federal policy. We're building on that work. We know that tribal communities have faced several structural challenges that make insurance more expensive and less available. And one of the biggest issues is the lack of accurate granular data for tribal lands. When insurers lack reliable information, they default to the worst case assumptions even when communities are actively reducing risk. As you heard from the previous panel, another challenge is persistent misunderstanding of tribal sovereignty. Insurers often don't know which building codes apply or how to verify mitigation on sovereign Land we also see consistent under recognition of tribal mitigation and cultural burning. Again, something you kept hearing on the previous panel. I think I should have gone before the previous panel actually. But tribal nations have led in cultural burning and forest stewardship for thousands of thousands of years. Yet insurers rarely credit these practices even though they reduce risk. Infrastructure gaps add another layer of difficulty. Remote access, limited fire response resources and older housing stock are often priced heavily by insurers, even when tribes are investing in resilience. And all of this is compounded by by the fact that tribal lands are disproportionately located in the wildland urban interface, the very areas where wildfire risk is the highest and insurance markets are retreating the fastest. These challenges are real, but they're not insurmountable. This is why we launched the Sustainable Insurance Strategy, the most comprehensive insurance reforms in 30 years. To restore a functioning insurance market while protecting consumers and finally, finally rewarding mitigation for tribal communities. The SIS offers several critical benefits. We are modernizing catastrophe modeling so insurers can use forward looking wildfire models, but only if they commit to writing more policies in high fire risk areas. These models must incorporate community level mitigation, including tribal fire management programs. Our public statewide wildfire model, the first of its kind, is a transparent science base and will be accessible to tribal governments. It will allow tribes to identify high risk areas, demonstrate the impact of cultural burning, support grant applications, challenge outdated insurer assumptions. This aligns with OECD recommendations that call for transparent forward looking models as a foundation for climate resilient insurance markets. And I want to pause here to share a moment that shaped really my understanding of this work. In the spring of 2023, I visited the Yurok Tribe and participated in a cultural burning training. I walked with tribal members through the forested hillsides as they used small intentional fires to reduce fuel loads and restore ecological balance. They spoke about land stewardship, watersheds, wildlife and the responsibility to protect future generations. This experience made very clear what tribal nations have always known. Fire, when used with intention and cultural expertise, is a tool for renewal, safety and resilience. California is finally, finally beginning to correct a century long imbalance by recognizing this truth. SP332 by DOT 2021, AB642 by Friedman 2021 and SP 310 by Ashby 2023 affirm this legacy of cultural burning and create pathways for tribal leadership and land stewardship. These laws don't simply allow cultural burning, they actually honor it, remove barriers and create shared governance models between tribes. And state agencies. We are also strengthening the Fair Plan so it can serve as a true backstop and not a permanent destination. And we are reducing excessive reinsurance cost, requiring insurers to justify expenses and modernize rate filing through new templates, tools and staffing. These reforms accelerate review and require insurers to expand coverage in high risk areas, including tribal lands. This year I'm sponsoring two major legislative efforts that directly support tribal communities. The first is AB 1680, the make it Fair act authored by assembly member Lisa Calderon. For many tribal homeowners, the Fair Plan has become the only option again. As you heard in the previous panel, AB 1680 modernizes the fair Plan from top to bottom, strengthening governance, improving financial oversight, requiring long term climate planning and mandating a more complete homeowners policy so families are not forced to juggle multiple policies just to get basic coverage. It also requires a Fair Plan to operate with greater transparency, adopt modern solvency standards and prepare long term climate realities facing tribal communities. As insurers return to high risk areas. Under the sustainable insurance strategy, AB 1680 creates a more smoother transition for homeowners to move off the Fair Plan and back into the admitted market. The second is SB876, the disaster recovery act authored by Senator Steve Padilla. Tribal nations have long faced delayed insurance payments, inadequate rebuilding resources and prolonged displacement after wildfires. SB876 strengthens claims handling standards, requires accurate replacement cost estimates, ensures timely payments of benefits including code upgrade coverage and improves access to additional living expenses. These protections are essential for rebuilding safely in rural and high risk regions and for supporting tribal governments in their roles as housing providers, as and recovery leaders. And I know the question on everybody's mind is really and everybody's mind is simple, when will consumers see relief? And here's the bottom line. We are in a transition period, but the direction has changed. For the first time in years, insurers are not stepping are now stepping forward and they're not stepping back. Several major companies have already filed new rates request under the Sustainable Insurance Strategy, publicly stating that the SIS is the reason they can stay in California and begin expanding underwriting again. More companies are preparing to file. These filings represent concrete commitments to reenter the market they had exited, including in tribal lands. Relief will come in stages. First, stability fewer non renewals, fewer abrupt withdrawals. Next more options, companies beginning to quote again in areas where coverage has been scarce and over time fairer pricing as mitigation and home hardening efforts are finally going to be recognized in your insurance bill. You heard me Right. Mitigation and home hardening efforts are finally going to be recognized in your insurance bill. California will be the first state under these new rules to require that your mitigation and your home hardening has to be reflected in your insurance bill for wildfire. Florida has been doing this for 20 years for Hurricane. Under the new rules, everything that you heard in the previous panel will be reflected in in your insurance bill. This outcome is something that I am particularly proud of and have worked really hard to achieve. This approach reflects what global reinsurers and catastrophe model experts have found. Markets recover faster when governments modernize modeling, strengthen oversight and actually reward mitigation. Moving forward, our work will be grounded in government to government consultation. We will ensure tribal mitigation is recognized in modeling and underwriting. We will improve data and transparency. We will develop better risk information with tribal nations. We will hold insurers accountable to returning to tribal communities under the sustainable insurance strategy. Insurers who want to use modern catastrophe models must demonstrate how they will maintain and expand ban coverage in higher risk areas, including tribal lands. Chair Ramos, members of the committee and tribal leaders. For too long the smoke was rising and the warnings were clear. But the action was not. California needed a commissioner willing to act and that is exactly what I did and many often say I paid the price for it. The rising cost of homeowners insurance in tribal communities is not inevitable. It is a result of outdated systems, climate driven risks and decades of decisions that ignored the sovereignty and the knowledge of our tribal nations. But we have made extraordinary progress in a short period of time. We are building the world's first public wildfire model. We launched the sustainable insurance strategy and we are advancing AB 1680 and SB 876. And insurers are beginning to re enter the markets that they had abandoned. This is real progress, but it is not the finish line. We will continue modernizing our rules, strengthening our consumer protections and insisting that insurers serve every single single community, including those in the wildland, urban interface and our tribal lands. If anyone can teach us what resilience looks like, it is the tribal nations represented in this room. Your resilience is not just a story of survival. It is the roadmap for future, the future that we build together. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to your questions and to continuing the work side by side in the months ahead and as I conclude my tenure in early 2027.

Thank you so much. Commissioner Lara as now we'll move to Cyren Taylor, Vice President, Personal Insurance Federation of California, thank you.

So thank you, thank you so much for your testimony. I want to thank you for being here and making yourself available to address the questions that will come from the dais and hopefully address some of the questions that some of the tribal leaders posed earlier as now we'll open it up to the dais. Assemblymember harbidian.

Well, yeah, I'll try. I mean, I feel there's a little disconnect there. And I heard someone talk about inspect every home and there's 4 million homes in the WUE.

Sorry, sorry.

Right.

Right.

I think this is a new frontier for us. And this is why I think, I think you're seeing, you're seeing the legislature in our department really step in here in terms of how insurance companies are using technology, specifically drones, to start looking at these properties. Because sarin is right, they're not using. People are not coming into your property anymore to assess it. And that's just the reality. But it's what type of technology are they using? How dated is this? Take this. The mapping systems that they're using. And this is why we need to step in on behalf of the consumers to make sure that the mapping is up to date, that they're using correct data, that they're not disproportionately using dated information, that then it's going to reflect on the insurance bill for that individual. And that's what we're seeing. So we need some step in here to regulate. And there are several bills now in the legislature trying to start to dictate on how is this data being used, how is it being collected, when was it collected and when are you. When is the insurance company making these decisions?

Based on, is it being based on real time, how are you using this information? So we're just at the crux of trying to understand how this is being used. And so we're having this discussion in the legislature with a couple bills that we've introduced to try to figure out because this is happening nationally and globally as well. And this is also why the public model is really important because you'll hear insurers say, well, what are the algorithms that you're using to determine, you know, how you're justifying the use of this data? And then they'll say, well, this is proprietary information. We can't give you this. So this is why our public wildfire model becomes critical, because that's public. And so tribal governments, you know, cities in Pasadena can access this data to use it as a benchmark to say, okay, our model says this and your model is saying that. So this is why having a public model that we can use as a benchmark and that the department can verify as well, keeps everybody honest, right? And it'll help us push against this. And this is why this is all new technology, by the way, that we are now going to have access to. And it's critical to keep everybody honest in this process. And this is all brand new. And again, this is how insurers are cutting costs, how they're using technology to make these determinations. And so again, you're seeing the legislature, the department of insurer and other regulators trying to catch up to how this technology is being used. Because we're not going to go back as much as we want to to having insurers try to go back to sending somebody to your home. And insurers are also starting to look at, just given the fact of how these catastrophes are reacting, they're also not just looking at your individual property anymore. They're looking at your property. They're looking at what you've done to your surrounding of your, of your dwelling. And they're also looking at the community. And this is why we came up with community wide mitigation standards, right? And they're sifting you through all these different layers to see if you even qualify to write you a policy. And so this is what technology is allowing them to use and why we also need to have access to that public technology so that we can again use that as a benchmark. This is the new frontier of where we're at. And so why we need to have these public data sets as well so that we can use it and have local governments, tribal governments have access to that as well. Because that also is going to be important to where you build, how you build. And Chairman Ramos brought something very important. Some of these communities didn't get to determine where they were built or where they're. Where they're established. Right. But we are not helpless here. I said mitigation is going to be the key. And finally now insurers understand the fire science. And if we, you know, and obviously tribal governments have been doing this for thousands of years. If they do that, if you do the right mitigation, it's going to bring down the cost of your insurance. So this is something that you brought up that we're tackling real time in the legislature right now.

Well, I will say, you know, I think that there has been some mixed messages, right, because there's all these different pieces. There's like a low cost retrofit list that got put in place years ago by cal fire, which are good things to do. And then there's the, what we think of as the gold. There's the safer from wildfire regulations that then do largely, largely align with the IBHS wildfire prepared home standard. And so there's all these different messages going out. There's a lot of conversations Right now about the zone zero and what needs to be done there. You know, I understand the Board of Forestry is considering, you know, letting local governments each make their own zone zero rules. So all these things are going to create disconnects from people with what they need to do versus there's what insurers are looking for. And I think they're pretty clear about that. And they've always said, you know, there's a suite of mitigations, that mitigations aren't sort of like an a la carte thing. You can't just do one or two things because the embers will find the weak spot and then burn down your home. So there's a minimum suite of things reflected in the IBHS wildfire prepared home that insurers believe as a meaningful level of mitigation. And so having a consistent communication about that I think would be a starting point. The other thing that I think is important to point out in this conversation is that mitigation isn't immunity from wildfire. You know, I would try to use analogy of like the polio vaccine wiped out polio. Right. It's 99.9% effective. Mitigation, even with the best science is more like a flu shot. In any given fire, it could be 30 or 50% effective. The data is there. When you look at like even the camp fire, even 50% of the homes that were post chapter 7A highly mitigated homes, 50% of them still burned down. The Fountain Grove community, which was a firewise community, it all burnt down. When you tour around these places, there's a level with some of these fires. When the winds get up to 50 miles an hour, they create their own weather. I did a tour with a fire captain in Sonoma. He pointed out it was like an auto shop. It was concrete blocks with a metal roof. It just got so hot, it exploded. Okay, so there's a certain amount of mitigation that you do and it's meaningful and folks need to do it, but it's not immunity. And when insurers are. When you talk about sort of getting guarantees of if you do this, then you get guaranteed coverage. And I understand intuitively why people want to think about it that way, but there's much more that goes into this. Insurers have solvency standards. You have concentration risk. You can't just write every property in a given area. Insurers have to have a certain amount of claims paying capacity in order to write properties. Just like a bank has to have enough money in the bank to Write a certain amount of loans.

So when you look at like State Farm, when they stopped writing, their claims paying capacity had eroded from $4 billion to $1 billion. Right. 75%. So they, they couldn't write any more homes. They didn't have the claims paying to back it up. Right. So these things all come into play in this discussion as well. It's not just simply I did this, so now do that and I will say the other piece. And it's very. People always want to talk about guarantees of coverage, but what is a more uncomfortable conversation is talking about guarantees of rate adequacy for insurers. And what we have under in California, under Prop 103, in a prior approval system, insurers don't control their rates or their prices the way other products do. If you're orange juice or eggs or gasoline, it's going to go, you know, your price changes on a day to day basis. Right. Insurer can take 270 to 500, 600 days to see their price change. So if inflation kicks in and the cost of rebuilding a home goes up 30% in two years and you're having to guarantee coverages, but the meantime you're 35% price inadequate. So from a business perspective, it just doesn't work that way.

So the slides that we're showing here, and I was saying this is underwriting gains and losses. So this is based on the premium that they're taking in and what they're paying out. Now a lot of people I think, like to confuse that by saying, well, you have these investment gains, which is

Well, again, I would say when you're looking at your business and you're saying I need to have My underwriting cover my costs, how you invest afterwards. And it does benefit consumers because those investment gains are directly included in the rate discussions with the department and they will lower rates and actually subsidize those premiums with those investment gains gains. But just for an analogy here, since we're in a casino, I would say if you had slot machines here that were paying out $1.10 for every dollar they're taking in, you can't sustain that business. And so you're going to reduce the number of slot machines and you're going to focus on other aspects of the business. And where else does you know, if you had a bookstore in your community and the bookstore brought in $100,000 in profits on selling books and then they invested that money in an s and P500 fund and they got a return on that, you wouldn't go back and say, well, now count your investment returns and reduce the prices of your books. So what one makes on their investment returns is important.

But the core business is, are the premiums, which is what you're charging the consumer, matching what you're paying out. And that still has to add up as well.

Chair. Thank you so much. Assembly Member Valencia Mr. Chairman, can I just quickly.

Thank you for that. Assuming. Member VALENCIA thank you, Mr.

I want to start off by acknowledging the work that our insurance commissioner has put forth the these last couple of years to address the Insurance crisis. It's been a long standing issue that unfortunately had not been addressed and I would say to the determinant of your political profile, to an extent, the reinsurance and catastrophic modeling components are a global incorporation models that have existed and are doing very well elsewhere. So I'm glad to see California is moving in that direction under your leadership. Not an easy issue to discuss. An elected official that is mandated to increase the cost of something for its consumers is not in a situation that I don't think any of us would ever want to be in as elected officials. So I do commend the work that you are doing in the most efficient way possible. Just one of my questions. Thank you for all the context that you provided in terms of of the services and resources to indigenous tribes and California's first people. Can you give specific examples as to how you've incorporated their input throughout this process?

So

Thank you. And just to provide some context on a more macro sense, many of the challenges that the tribal nations have expressed today are very similar to the challenges that California residents are experiencing across the state as well. However, because of their sovereignty, and I want to reiterate this point, how it impacts them within their own governments and communities is different. And I think because of that, being more proactive and including a specific connection to them would be helpful in mitigating their challenges at their experience.

Appreciate that, Commissioner. And just to Mr. Taylor, just want to also thank PIF, the personal insurance Federation of California, for participating today and also acknowledge that it is a private entity, insurance as a whole and they do have the autonomy to not do business in California. And despite the challenges that you've all experienced and left for some time, some insurers, you've all discovered, decided to come back to the table, which just shows the good faith that you're willing to work not only with the state but also with tribal communities. So that's my expectation moving forward and would also, like I mentioned to the insurance commissioner, appreciate a direct line of communication with tribal nations in California to ensure that their specific issues are met. Because again, you are dealing with governments as opposed to individual residents like you are with the rest of the state.

Thank you, Assembly Member.

Yeah, that's going to be reflected 100% now in not only the premium for the general community, but in your actual insurance bill. And how that's going to be done is going to be done through the modeling and through our wildfire model, our public wildfire modeling. So now they're required under the new sustainable insurance strategy, which companies already have filed. We have six new companies that already have filed under this new filing that have been approved. And now they're going to start, you know, writing new policy in the wildland urban interface, including tribal lands, that's already set policy that is a binding agreement. And by the way, we are the first state to require that. So let me give you an example. Unlike any other state, and this is, you know, just as Seren said, this is why collaboration is critical, because they are a private business. What ha. What happened during the Northridge earthquake? Since somebody brought up earthquake insurance? By the way, only 2% of Californians have earthquake insurance. So we talk about earthquake when the big one hits. We're on our own, not to scare anybody. But when that happened, the legislature came to overregulate the insurance industry. The insurers just left. They stopped providing earthquake insurance. The last thing we need is for insurers to once again just leave and stop providing welfare insurance. So therein lies the balance of my job, protecting the insurance market and making sure we still have insurance companies writing.

And so we entered into a negotiation. You want to use catastrophe models, you want to provide, you want to be able to access reinsurance cost. We're going to limit that and make sure you're transparent. But what do I get for the consumer? I'm going to get you. I want a binding agreement that you're going to not abandon communities and tribal lands. How about that? And let's figure that out. And that's what we came together and we agreed to that. So, and I want you to make sure that mitigation and that all the mitigation and home hardening that has happened in tribal lands and that communities are investing. Because the number one thing that I've heard that you've heard on this panel is I've done everything to protect my home. I've invested Thousands of dollars on my home and I still got dropped or nothing has happened on my cost. I've heard it thousands of times from Humboldt all the way down to San Ysidro, right? And now you're going to be able to see that now we mandated discounts. When I started in 2019, there was only 7% of the companies were offering discounts. Now, by law, every insurance company has to give you a discount for home hardening. And those discounts are growing over the year. So that's also part of the agreement under the new rules. You know what was my biggest fear, Chairman? That I was going to do these new rules, put them in place, approve these regulations, and companies were not going to come and play with California. But guess what? They're coming. And now we have six out of the 12 largest insurance companies in our homeowners market. They want to do, they want to be in California. We're the largest market in the country, fourth in the world. And so we have that power market. I'll tell you and I'll stop. I'll get off my soapbox. In other states, like in Colorado, my good friend, he's, he's Californian, by the way, the insurance commissioner, he's from Ventura. In Colorado, where they have fires, the insurance companies can submit a rate file. And the only way he can stop that amount is until they catch the insurance company doing something wrong. They don't have a review process. And guess what? If the insurance company says we don't want to write there, they don't have to write we. And they could just abandon that community here because of the collaboration and the negotiation we did. They cannot do that. We are the first state to require that. And so I know there's a lot of frustration. And just as it's taken us 30 years to modernize these rules, it's going to take us a little time. And that's why I say we're in the first year of a five year cycle. So it's going to get, it's going to take us a couple years. I say in the next two years you're going to start seeing this really take into effect.

You're going to call the Department of Insurance. We have staff here who will talk to your tribal leaders, work with your tribal governments. We can do town halls, we can come back and talk about that would

I don't know, but we can, I'm sure my staff can because getting to

Well, the IPHS standards are taken very seriously. And as Commissioner Laura talked about, it's actually built into their regulations now that insurers must recognize those actions and provide those discounts. So it is the industry standard right now. And so, you know, and I'll say, you know, I'd have to go talk with Roy Wright, who is the director of ibhs. But again, you know, as the commissioner talked about his town halls, Roy Wright is sort of the messenger or the apostle of mitigation. And to the extent, you know, if we were going to look at trying to do, you know, whether it was a webinar or something, together, you know, setting something up like that to help connect the dots between, you know, the folks at the tribal governments, what they're doing, and talk to IBHS and learn more about those standards. I'm sure we can facilitate something along those lines.

Yeah, I 100% agree with you. And just for the record, I wanted to clarify that we have been, our staff was presenting, have presented at Tassn and did a presentation at Chumash as well.

We did a presentation at Tassen and have been. We did and did a presentation as well with the Chumash.

Hi, Mr. Chairman.

Chris Lindstrom, executive officer of the California Tribal Business Alliance. Thank you for allowing me to say a few words. Chairman Smith was on a panel earlier. He had a minor medical. He had a bloody nose. I couldn't stop, so he wanted me to make it. Comments. And if I may, I'd like to submit this for the record. This was his written testimony.

And then to.

There was a lot of really important things that were said and I don't want to be redundant, so just hit on a couple. There was a company that was formed that to kind of plug a gap to offer insurance to tribal governments when other traditional insurers weren't doing that. And, and they've been doing that for a few decades and it was really beneficial because tribes couldn't get insurance, get coverage any other way. But they changed their underwriting policies that and perhaps because of the disasters in California that requires tribes to maintain commercial coverage before they would offer homeowner policies and other insurance to renters insurance so that was something that chairman Smith wanted to bring up he also wanted to talk about relationships and the recognition of tribes as governments and he wanted to talk about a bill that was passed by the legislature in 21 SB816 by geo committee senate go and it allowed tribes to be signatories to the state's master mutual aid agreement agreement it was the first time that that document that was signed by Earl Warren like 70 years earlier was ever amended and that change led to Paula signing the first agreement and many other tribes signed the agreement since but allowed for the de deployment the pre disaster deployment of fire apparatus and it was like a type 3 I don't even know what it is It's a type 3 fire insurance but I think for wildfires in particular so the thought of pre deployment of assets working with the state cal oes and maybe the federal government I think that could be very beneficial to help.

Thank you so much for your comments. Any other public comment? Oh, yeah, you bring it up here, I'll give it to them. Any other public comment? Well, thank you so much. And to the hospitality of the Barona tribal government to allow us to have this hearing here. I think we expose a lot of issues that there's disparities between what tribal governments understand and what the state of California is moving forward in. I would encourage that collaboration to continue. We heard about two programs, right? One that's talking about basically regulations that would strengthen homes that then could lower premiums. Another one on hardening homes from the insurance commissioner. And I think making sure that Indian country is part of that dialogue to understand that those programs are out there and certainly rising to the level in education around the dais and through this hearing that tribal governments are utilizing far more assets for fire prevention and for the local community that many don't truly understand. So I think it's time that we do go back, that we talk about these issues on our individual committees. When these issues come forward, we ask the question, how does this affect the tribal communities in the state of California? And that's understanding these issues. Certainly, I think visiting the tribal community in their own homelands is important for the legislature to get a firsthand glimpse of how the structure truly moves forward. So we will take the information that we've accumulated through this hearing back into the state legislature and make sure that those truly understand the issue that's here and it isn't lost. You know, certainly, Chairman Smith, given my regards, knowing that the insurance not only on the homes that you're building, but renter insurance on Indian reservations is something that we need to look at. So hopefully we addressed a lot of the issues and brought issues to the forefront. And we did request that a two year plan move forward on town halls in Indian country. So we'll see how that translates. And it's up to my colleagues to make sure that that voice keeps getting resonated. So I just want to thank my colleagues and again, the Barona tribal government and all the tribal leaders that spoke and that were here in the room on these important issues. As now we adjourn the Select Committee on Native American Affairs.