June 1, 2026 · Ohio Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review · 4,265 words · 6 speakers · 40 segments
Good afternoon. I'd like to call the Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review to order. I'd like to recognize our substitute member for today's hearing. We've got Senator Hoffman in for Senator Lange. Welcome to JCAR. Would the clerk please call the roll?
Here. Here. Present. Here. Here. Senator Mark here. Here. Here.
Let the record show that a quorum is present. I'd like to now recognize co-chair Calendar for a point of personal privilege.
I'm a mere representative, so working your fancy electronics might be above my level. Can you hear me? Okay, good. And I'm looking. Colin, are you here? Is he hiding back there?
Can we do this in a couple of minutes when he gets back in the room? We can put a pause on that.
Let's put this on temporarily table this.
That sounds good. Thank you. On your iPads, you'll find the minutes from the May 11, 2026 JCAR meeting. Are there any corrections or additions to the minutes? Seeing none, let the record show the minutes were approved as presented.
Director, would you please read the no change agenda? The no change agenda for this afternoon includes item one,
Accountancy Board, 19 rules. Item two, Attorney General, Consumer Protection, two rules. Item three, Attorney General, Peace Officer Training Commission, five rules. Item 4, Auditor of State, 10 rules. Item 5, Department of Job and Family Services, ODJFS. Practices, 1 rule. Item 6, Department of Medicaid, 2 rules. Item 7 and 8, Public Utilities Commission, Utilities, 12 rules. Item 9, State Racing Commission, 9 rules withdrawn. Item 10, Opportunities for Ohioans with Disabilities, 3 rules. Item 11, State Board of Pharmacy, Terminal Distributors of Dangerous Drugs, 3 rules. Item 12, State Veterinary and Medical Licensing Board, 8 rules. Thank you. Are there questions by members about items on the no change agenda? Are there any comments from the public? Thank you. Director, would you please read the regular agenda?
The regular agenda for this afternoon includes item 1 through 3, Attorney General, Peace Officer Training Commission, 6 rules. Item 4, Department of Children and Youth, Children's Services and Supports, 1 rule. Items 5 and 6, Department of Children and Youth, 20 rules. Items 7 through 13, Department of Children and Youth, Licensing and Certification, 80 rules. Madam Co-Chair, we have witnesses, I believe, that wish to testify on this item if you'd like to move item 8 to the review portion. Items 14 and 15, Department of Developmental Disabilities, 11 rules. Item 16, Department of Education and Workforce, 3 rules. Item 17, Department of Higher Education, 1 rule. Item 18, Department of Insurance, 4 rules. Item 19, Department of Job and Family Services, Division of Food, SAMS, 1 rule. Item 20, Department of Job and Family Services, Division of Public Assistance, 1 rule. Item 20, Department of Job and Family Services, Division of Social Services, 14 rules. Item 22, Department of Natural Resources, Division of Watercraft and Waterways, two roles. Item 23, Department of Public Safety, three roles. Item 24, Department of Public Safety, Private Investigator Security Guard Services, one role. Items 25 and 26, Department of Taxation, 12 roles. Item 27, Department of Veterans Services, one role. Item 28, Office of Budget and Management, Higher Education, Fiscal Watch, one role. Items 29 and 30, Department of Medicaid, Eligibility, two roles. Items 31 through 34, Department of Medicaid, four rules. Item 35, Environmental Protection Agency, one rule. Items 36 and 37, Opportunities for Ohioans with Disabilities, five rules. Item 38, Power Siting Board, 11 rules. Item 39, Public Utilities Commission, Utilities, three rules. Item 40, State Board of Pharmacy, Terminal Distributors of Dangerous Drugs, one rule. Item 41, State Teachers Retirement System, Defined Benefits, five rules. And withdrawn, items 42, Department of Children and Youth, early child care and education eligibility, nine rules. Item 43, Department of Children and Youth Licensing and Certification, nine rules. Item 44, Parasite and Board, three rules. This completes the reading of the regular agenda.
Thank you. Thank you, Director. Regular agenda item number eight will be moved to the review portion of today's agenda. And now the Chair recognizes Co-Chair Callender
for a point of personal privilege. Thank you very much. I'd like to call on Mr. Colin Connors, if I may, to at least stand out here. This will be Colin's last JCAR meeting with us, and I am generally opposed to taking points of personal privilege to thank what is usually a rotating set of staff. We all appreciate them. They're all great, but I don't like using public time for that. But this is an exception. I have been blessed over my now 17, 16, 15 and a half years of elected office of having great staff. I see a couple of them in the room from the past. but Colin has really been exceptional in his work for and on behalf of the agencies and the Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review. It has really gone over and above. Just a quick show of hands. How many of you in the room, including members, have worked with him on an issue? Thank you. if he wishes to share, but it's a really perfect fit for him. He's going to do a great job there. I think we all wish him well in that position, and I'm sure we will see him in the rural environment in the future. And sorry to embarrass you. I know you hate this, but I think it's only appropriate if I could ask for a round of applause for that. Thank you.
I do not believe the rules allow for a rebuttal at this point, so thank you. I want to thank you, Colin. You've been terrific to work with, and I am sure you're going to do great things in your next position. All right, and we'll go back to the regular agenda, and are there any questions from members about items on the regular agenda? Are there any additional comments from the public? All right. Those agencies that don't have items on the review portion of the agenda may exit the room at this time Thank you. Thank you. On the review portion today, we have regular agenda item number eight, proposed rules from the Department of Children and Youth regarding licensing and certification. I'd like to remind everyone that remarks should be kept to the rules that are before us today. Other rules that aren't on the agenda are not on our jurisdiction. So please keep remarks to the current rules. I'd like to call forward Amy Royer, CEO of Air Child Care Training Solutions, for opposition testimony.
Thank you, Colin, as well, for everything. Chair, Vice Chair, and members of the committee, thank you for your opportunity to testify today. I appear before you on behalf of licensed child care centers and small businesses across Ohio. These providers play a vital role in supporting working families while maintaining the highest standards of child safety. However, the current proposed rule package contains several deficiencies that warrant close JCAR scrutiny under the established statutory review standards. First, the package includes clear examples of improper incorporation by reference. In the fiscal analysis submitted to the CSI committee, DCY described the field guides as purely operational, optional, non-binding tools to assist providers. Yet page five of the guides themselves, they state their usage as an operations manual for licensing specialists to maintain compliance. This fundamental contradiction creates serious ambiguity for providers and compliance regulators. Rule 5180-2207 and associated rules within the five packages incorporated the training rule 5180-21210 without making all the language readily available to the public and lawmakers.
And I just make a comment.
Rule 5180-2-12-10 is still going through the process, hasn't come before JCAR yet, and we don't have jurisdiction over that rule at this point.
Can I ask a question just for understanding?
I believe that's still going through the process right now.
Okay. And I can certainly have someone at the conclusion of your testimony, Brian Stout is here from the Department of Children and Youth, who can clarify the status of that rule at this time.
Right. And I do believe that it's incorporated by reference in some of the administrator rules. Is that something that I can speak to because of incorporation by reference? I don't know the rules on that.
I don't think it is, but I can certainly have someone from Department of Children and Youth come and explain what the status is of 5180-12-10 is at this point. It's just not before us at this point. We don't have jurisdiction over that rule.
Okay, so should I continue with the rest, or how would you like me to proceed?
You can talk to any of the rules that are currently on today's agenda, not ones that aren't before us right now.
Okay. Yet page five of the field guide, and I'll try to do my best on that, okay? Yet page five of the field guides themselves state that they are used as operations manuals. Rule 5182-1207 and associated rules incorporated. Let me get back to where I was. I apologize. Additionally, the field guides attempt to make a substantive rule change regarding the training. the proposed language states that virtual skills assessment is not considered an in-person training component. If left in the field guides, providers will interpret this to mean that they cannot use virtual video conferencing trainings. This would be devastating for providers serving non-English speaking populations, as well as small and rural centers that lack access to face-to-face trainers in large cities. It also creates financial and staffing barriers as programs must pull staff from classrooms for half-day trainings instead of efficient 20-minute virtual skills assessment while maintaining required ratios. This is an improper attempt to change training standards through guidance manuals rather than the rulemaking process that violates or however revised code section 123.91, Review of Agency Operations. These concerns must be addressed before all field guides are finalized and before the upcoming training rules and relating rules and other packages are released for public comment. Significant procedural and fiscal analysis concerns also remain with communicable disease training under Rule 5180-21216 and associated rules under other child care packages. The free ODJFS DCY communicable disease training does not meet the trainer qualification requirements in Appendix A of the rule. This course was implemented through a procedural letter 166 and an ODE email rather than proper rulemaking. These 2026 examples of proper incorporation by reference and improper filings repeat the 2021 deficiencies in which the Appendix A and Appendix B of the training rules were not made available during the public May 2021 comment period. Yet the business impact analysis and CSI reports incorrectly represented that they had been part of the original clearance package for comments and review. These materials were only later rescinded and enacted in July of 2021. Such continued deficiencies raise serious questions about the integrity of the agency's submissions. These practices violate standards against improper incorporation by reference. The field guides contain staff checklists, directing programs exclusively to state-specific sponsored trainings, such as the free child abuse course and free communicable disease course, with required uploads to the Ohio Professional Registry. None of these requirements appear in Ohio Revised Code. The field guide also recommends resources that can promote certain businesses and omit others. This omission disparages non-listed training organizations and risks recreating the state-favored training monopoly J. Carr addressed in the 2017 hearings regarding the free child abuse course. A more equitable operation would be to resource the OPR the Ohio Professional Registry training category rather than a specific training in all areas of the field guide training resources and guidance Secondly the fiscal analysis is incomplete and the adverse business impacts on small providers are not justified. Rule 5180-1207 and associated rules shift major new oversight responsibilities onto administrators, requiring them to verify that training providers meet state qualifications, duties previously handled by the Ohio Professional Registry. The full text of related rules, again 10, and associated rules were not included in the clearance packages, limiting proper review. 5180-212-03 and associated rules grant licensing specialists broad authority to cite violations, suspend licenses, reduce step-up to quality ratings, and suspend funding during investigation, yet provide no defined timeline for completion of those investigations. Providers only have a limited seven-day business review window to request the review, and no meaningful appeal during the process, exposing small businesses to prolonged financial and reputational harm. Rule 5182-1219 and associated rules, vague supervision standards regarding staffing proximity and awareness have already led to citations and step up to quality rating reductions creating unjustified financial risk to their funding and viability. Third, the agency has failed to meet the mandatory five-year rule review, and we talked about this, that that one is going to come into clearance. In conclusion, this rule violates multiple JCAR standings, including improper incorporation by reference, incomplete and inaccurate fiscal analysis, unjustified adverse impacts on small businesses, and the failure to complete required five-year rule reviews. These continued deficiencies undermine transparency, predictability, and fairness in the regulatory process. I support House Bill 775 because it seeks to preserve the checks and balances intended within Ohio's rulemaking process by limiting agency authority to promulgate rules under vague authority and avoid triggering any of the JCAR prongs. I specifically urge the committee to return the affected rules and field guides to the Department of Children and Youth for full correction and transparency through proper procedure, or to recommend invalidation where necessary. Ohio child care providers deserve clear, lawful rules that protect children without threatening the viability and sustainability of the programs and families they depend upon. I do thank you for your time and attention to this matter. Thank you.
So there may be questions, but I'll be asking Brian Stout from Department of Children and Youth to come and respond in a moment. But before that, does any member of the committee have questions? Yes, co-chair Callender.
Just in listening to your testimony, I guess I always appreciate folks coming in. And is this your first time testifying?
No, I was here in 2017.
Ah, okay. that was part of my hiatus generally the earlier you can let us know the more we can look into an issue and I didn't find out about this until I think Thursday or Friday. The good news is the rules you appear to be concerned with are not on this agenda so we may have a chance to review them as they're coming through and they may not be complete yet and they're drafting And I'm hoping and I'm quite certain, and I see directors shaking their head yes, some of your comments will be taking into account as they're finalizing those rules. So you may have had an impact. The remainder of the things I think I just want to point out appeared to be legislative things or policy things, which are totally outside of the J-Card jurisdiction. We are limited. We're almost like an appellate court. We can only review under certain pretty tightly prescribed parameters, and we don't like the policy is not one of the parameters that we're allowed to venture into. We've had plenty of things that I dislike policy-wise going through this committee, and they just don't hit one of the prongs. So I urge you, if you come back, when the rules you're concerned with comes back, that you are very tightly, narrowly craft what you bring to us to that little area. But I will say since the rule's not before us yet, you might have a chance to impact it before it gets here. Would you like to respond?
Some of the rules that I have brought before you, and I say this with all respectful because I'm also learning this process, it is a very intense process for a non-lawmaker to understand, is that it's my understanding also that agencies every five years must look at all their policies and procedures and that if they feel that some of those policies and procedures would either have an adverse business impact or would clarify the rule or would impact sustainability or access, that they must put those practices into policy. And so if this field guide was one of those under review of agency operations, that's how I'm interpreting it, and I don't know if I'm correct in that, I'll be honest. And so if they felt that these policies were so important for child care, then take this opportunity during this five-year rule revision to put them into rules. And there are quite a few times where this training rule is incorporated by reference into administrator responsibilities, and this puts a real hardship on administrators to now have to, for instance, look at a training organization and look at a trainer and now determine whether or not my RN licensure is still out there and is still viable. This was something that was already done through the Ohio Professional Registry, and I guess there's just some of these rules where it doesn't seem to make sense to put these practices back on the providers, and it's going to cause hardship for them. I mean, that's where my training rule comes in is, you know, through other rules where it's being incorporated by reference but wasn't made part of this JCAR hearing.
Co-chair Callender?
So thank you, Madam Chair. And I appreciate your desire to be involved and your passion on the issues. Just the five-year review and the policy into rule are kind of two separate things. The policy into rule, if you have something that is being done as a policy that did not go through the rulemaking process, you can send a letter to JCAR and we'll take a look at it. And if we believe there is an issue, we'll call the agency and we do that. We've done that many times with agencies. We might have one pending now with another agency. And that's the methodology for that. It doesn't require coming into a hearing because there's not a hearing on that specific rule. And the five-year review, we review those every year to make sure everybody's caught up. And as far as I aware they are not behind or not significantly enough to trigger a red flag I not sure a five review would necessarily catch what you talking about though So again appreciate your involvement and if you got specific rules that are problematic if you want to bring those in writing or email or whatever, communicate with JCAR, and they'll gladly do, we, they, we'll do a review, and if it is a policy-to-rule situation, we'll have a separate agenda item for it in the future.
Are there any further questions?
May I have an opportunity to speak to that?
Is that acceptable? Go ahead.
I would love to have that opportunity. Those rules are outlined a little bit stronger in my long testimony, which isn't appropriate for the hearing, but was provided as evidence. Also, I am waiting for one of those hearings that you're talking about with regard to the 2021 rules. and so if we can take another look at that, I would be ever so grateful. So that's all I have to say. Thank you, and I appreciate your time.
Thank you for your testimony. I'd like to call Brian Stout from the Department of Children and Youth.
Good afternoon, co-chairs and members of the committee. My name is Brian Stout. I work in the legislative section here at the Department of Children and Youth. And so with the chair's permission, maybe kind of answer some of the questions that came up during some of the previous testimony. So just to confirm the co-chair's understanding is, so the training rule that has been kind of discussed and referenced, that is 5180 colon 2 dash 12 dash 10, that is currently going through the rules process. We hope to get that out for an external clearance process in which we solicit public feedback on those rules. So those should be coming through JCAR's jurisdiction here in the relatively near future. Parenthetically, that five-year rule review date on that particular rule is actually October 29, 2026. So obviously we'll get that in J-CARD jurisdiction. The goal is on that date or before that date. So just to kind of confirm that. In terms of field guides, I know that's also been discussed here today. So the field guides are something that we're trying to do, again, kind of for providers to kind of express some things and kind of like helpful hints, guidance, things like that, for providers to kind of more common language come into compliance or kind of one of the things to note is that, you know, see like, well, this is something we see on a licensure standpoint. This is a common issue that we have. It is draft guidance. I probably should stress that as well. So Ms. Royer's comments definitely will be taken into consideration in terms of what the field guides look like ultimately. But again, again, stress the fact is that we're very well aware of the legislature's stance on policy to rule. The field guides will be used as guidance only. Any requirements that we're going to be holding providers to in the child care area will be expressed in revised or administrative code. And so that is very clear. And as the training rule kind of rolls out, those are the standards that will be established for training. So I'm happy to discuss if members had any other questions, any other kind of larger points that were brought up in the conversation or anything on the packages. but we would obviously maintain that there are no pronged concerns or violations here with this particular rule package before you today.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions from members? Seeing none, thank you very much. Thank you very much. And next I'd like to call forward Tim Tice, CEO of Serving Leaders Center for Opposition Testimony. Again, please keep your remarks limited to the rules that are before us today.
I'll do my best. It's short testimony, so stop me if I'm off on the part where I'm not supposed to discuss. Chair, Vice Chair, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. For more than three decades, I have worked in the early childhood profession as a teacher, program administrator, trainer, association executive, and former executive director of Ohio AEYC. I'm here today to share my perspective on AIR training solutions and other training organizations and the important role played in supporting Ohio's early childhood workforce. Throughout my career, I've worked with many organizations that provide professional development for early childhood educators. AIR has long been recognized as a respected provider of high-quality training, serving thousands of early childhood professionals and beyond. ARR's commitment to quality is reflected in its use of nationally recognized standards developed by IASET. These standards are widely respected across industries and help ensure professional development is meaningful, well designed, and focused on learner outcomes. This is probably the most applicable point of my testimony. As someone who's worked extensively in professional development, I'm concerned about the adverse business impact that interpretations of the rules may have on longstanding training organizations such as AIR and other providers. These restrictions, they may restrict participation by longstanding qualified training providers and create unintended barriers within professional development system without clear evidence of a corresponding benefit to educators, programs, or children. When requirements limit or restrict the ability of established providers to deliver training, the impact extends beyond that organization itself. It affects educators, programs, and communities that rely on those services. The children, families, employers, and communities represented by your constituents all benefit when early childhood professionals have access to high-quality training. Maintaining a strong and diverse professional development system requires that qualified providers have a fair opportunity to continue serving the workforce. Thank you for your consideration.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions by members? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony. Lastly, I'd like to direct the members' attention to written testimony received on this item from Chris Alexander, CEO of Central Ohio CPR and First Response Health and Safety Training. This document's available for review on your iPads. Are there any additional members of the public who'd like to provide testimony on this item? All right. As the last order of business today, pursuant to Ohio Revised Code Section 101.352, the Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review requests that the Ohio Board of Pharmacy appear before J. Carr to explain the agency's reliance on a policy that should have been supplanted by its restatement into rule. The suspected policy relates to a guidance document which attempts to create binding law by banning certain types of kratom in its natural vegetation form. This policy to rule discussion will take place at the next meeting of JCAR on June 22, 2026, in the Senate Finance Hearing Room at 1.30 p.m. This announcement serves as public notice. The formal appearance request was transmitted from the Director of JCAR to the Board on May 21, 2026. Are there any additional comments or questions from members at this time? All right. Is there a motion to adjourn? We are hereby adjourned.