April 15, 2026 · Government Oversight Committee · 9,740 words · 12 speakers · 107 segments
Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee will now come to order. Clerk, please call the roll.
Chair Van Tester. Here. Vice Chair Brenner. Present. Senator Johnson. Here. Senator O'Brien. Here. Senator Landis. Here. Senator Lines. Here. And Senator Noir. Here. We have a quorum.
We have a quorum present and will proceed as a full committee. Members, please review the minutes from the March 25th meeting that have been uploaded to the iPads. Are there any additions or deletions? Without objection, the minutes are approved. The first order of business is to call up Senate Bill 380 for its first hearing. I'd like to invite Senator Johnson to offer sponsor testimony. You may begin when ready.
Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Excuse me, but I've had an urge to sneeze all morning, so it may happen. So watch out. Chairwoman Manchester, Vice Chairman Brenner, Ranking Member Weinstein, and members of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide sponsored testimony on Senate Bill 380. The title of the bill is lengthy, but it really encapsulates what this bill is and what it attempts to do. I titled it An Act to Affirm and Ensure the Supremacy of the Constitutions of the United States of America and Ohio and the foundational principle of the American system of government, which is individual liberty. This legislation would simply prohibit any government entity from recognizing or enforcing certain laws that are incompatible with the United States Constitution and the Ohio Constitution. It is essential that the legislature preserves Ohio's values rooted in our history, customs, and practices. Ohio's courts should interpret and apply the law as written, rather than being the potential for relying on external legal frameworks that are not accountable to our citizens. Ohio law stands as the ideal champion for freedom of expression when considering our legislative and judicial processes. processes. Examples of such incompatible laws are outlined directly within the language of the bill, while also providing clarity, protecting state and local sovereignty, and ensuring that the rights and obligations of Ohioans are governed solely by the laws enacted through our democratic processes. The United States and the Ohio constitutions remain the supreme law of the land, not the standards of foreign nations and international organizations. This is quite simply an act to affirm and ensure those things outlined above. Thank you again for your time and attention. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have, and I promise to be brief, so there you go.
Thank you very much, Senator, for your testimony. Are there any questions from the committee? Senator DeMora?
Thank you, Madam Chair. Senator Johnson, I'm really kind of confused because right now no laws can violate the constitutions of the federal government or the state constitution. So I don't understand what this bill does because right now, if any law, we're not officially allowed to pass a law that is unconstitutional. And if we do, it can't be enforced. So I don't understand what this bill is needed for when those things are already, they're already there, that's already common practice.
Madam Chairwoman, to my friend and colleague, the good Senator, if you look across the United States and around the world these things pop up and they exist by themselves They certainly not passed by us but they pop up and cause problems So they are not regulated by the same rules we are unless they are enforced. And in many places in the world, in some places in the United States, they have not been. So again, the rest of the world obviously doesn't have to listen to our Constitution and it has no bearing on them. But can you give an example about a law that somehow Ohio doesn't, that somewhere in Ohio is not following the Constitution? Because I just don't understand.
To Senator DeMora.
No, not in Ohio, and we aim to prevent that.
Are there any additional questions? Vice Chair Brenner.
Thank you. Thank you, Senator Johnson. I'm reading through your bill analysis, and this looks like this covers a lot of things that may be brought into the United States that might be customs elsewhere that are being treated as law elsewhere, and then they would be brought here potentially or into other states, as I think I've heard and read. You've got things like plural marriages in here, marriages of convenience, forced marriages, politically or religiously motivated physical violence, and female genitalia, mutilation, and other things like that. This is what you're trying to prevent from happening here, is that those customs coming in and maybe taking hold in a particular community or two and then trying to be enforced as if it were law locally, even though it isn't. Is that the intent here?
Chairwoman, to Senator Brenner, I think that's the essence of it. And I'm sure you've heard of places called no-go zones where people have set up these religious and quasi-legislative and judicial and executive bodies with police forces and things like that that intimidate people from going in, even police. That's happened all over Europe right now. And there are some flavorings of that happening in Texas and Michigan and other places in the United States. even Minnesota, and I really don't want to see that happen here. Florida has just taken action and done a similar bill, but this doesn't really target any one specific group. It's just anybody who wants to do any of this stuff, we're saying in Ohio we're not going to do it.
Are there any additional questions for the sponsor? Seeing none, thank you very much for your time. Oh, Ranking Member Weinstein, okay.
Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for your testimony. Just regarding the examples that were listed here, was there any particular, I guess, justification or reason or framework that you used for providing the specific examples, or did you consult with a constitutional expert or anybody who said that there was reason to list these things explicitly?
Through the chairwoman to the ranking member, yes, as a matter of fact, I did consult with some constitutional folks, and these are things that are considered active threats to the United States' form of government. And, you know, if this is tolerated a little, it can be tolerated a lot, and I don't want to see it happen in Ohio.
Follow-up? Are there any additional questions for the sponsor Seeing none thank you very much for your testimony today Thank you This concludes the first hearing on Senate Bill 380 Second order of business is to call up Senate Resolution 271 for its second hearing. I would like to invite Stuart Mazinski on behalf of Values in Action, Kindland, and United States of Kindness to offer proponent testimony. Welcome to committee. You may begin when ready.
Good morning, Chair Manchester, Vice Chair Brenner, Ranking Member Weinstein, and members of the committee. I'm Stuart Muszynski, and I'm the President and CEO of Values in Action Foundation, a national nonprofit focused on social-emotional learning, workforce readiness, and kindness-based programming in K-12 education. and through our Kyneland initiative, which I know many of you are familiar with, and we very much appreciate the overall support from the Senate and from the General Assembly and from Senator Brenner, longstanding support. Thank you so much. We have been involved with more than 5,000 schools in all 50 states, with our leading state being Ohio. Ohio, as you know, has taken the lead in many things. The start of aviation here, the start of Alcoholics Anonymous, the start of United Way, and many, many other innovations that come out of Ohio. And our Kyneland movement came out of Ohio. We currently have 1,143 schools. That's an increase in one year from 700 schools participating in the state of Ohio. And the data that we receive from these schools is that kindness increases learning. Kindness decreases absenteeism. Kindness is a core competency that prepares students for the workforce. And kindness is good for all of us. Recently, Warren Buffett said that the most important thing that he holds in the entire world is kindness. Why wouldn't somebody want to be kind? Because you feel better and you get repaid with interest. Mark Twain is famous for saying kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. So we wanted to expand on our overall programming this year, the nation's 250th birthday, by asking all Ohioans to do 250 acts of kindness. In fact, just this past Monday, we had a launch on the West Plaza with students from Willard Middle School doing a complete reenactment of the Declaration of Independence in full Revolutionary War garb. And that's the kind of resonance that we're seeing in Ohio schools from the endorsement of DEW to the Chancellor of Higher Education asking all the public colleges and universities to commit to doing the 250 Acts of Kindness. And we see the endorsement of the Senate and the House the Senate through this resolution as helping us create a tipping point where the 250 acts of kindness that people do this year become a tipping point to regularly doing acts of kindness and to Ohio being the innovator for kindness in the nation So we appreciate everyone attention to this We appreciate everyone kindness And we appreciate everything that you do for the state of Ohio.
Thank you very much for your testimony. Are there any questions from the committee? Ranking Member Weinstein.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you so much for your testimony, for your support, and for, well, working with me on this and in a bipartisan way, it's awesome. You say 250 acts of kindness and maybe people are thinking, oh my gosh, that's a lot. Not that we ever want to hesitate to provide an act of kindness, but could you give an example of something small, something that people could just do in an everyday way that may not feel like a big act but could make a difference for people?
Sure. You know, the research shows that the small acts of kindness are as significant as the large acts of kindness. I have a close friend who lost a loved one the other day, and yesterday I made a condolence call and just sat with them for an hour. That's a fairly large act of kindness. You know, you're taking an hour out of your day. I felt really good afterwards. And what happens from kindness is that you feel good. It gives you an endorphin boost. It actually alters your brain chemistry. The person you're giving the kindness to feels good, and the observers feel good, and then they pay it forward. But the science shows that if you open a door for somebody, as small as that might be, that resonates with that individual, and it creates that pay-it-forward momentum. If a student, and we often talk to students about this, If they're passing somebody in a hallway and they say, have a great day, that creates a ripple effect and other students say, have a great day, have a great day, have a great day. In fact, we experienced this in the most violent high school in the Cleveland area. Over three years, we were asked to go in and put all of our kindness programming in. And just from those acts of kindness resonating, we saw the graduation rate increase from 50% to 93%. Suspensions went down 73%, and there were zero fights in the school. In the prior year, they had lost four young men to gang violence. So, you know, the ripple effect of the small acts of kindness have, in many cases, greater impact because it's easier to do and it spreads organically, and that's the experience that we've seen in schools. And we are formally launching on April 24th. Actually, Gallup has done a survey for us on the state of kindness in America, and there are some really, really red flag-revealing items in the survey that urban communities have less appreciation for kindness than suburban communities, less comfort with kindness. In the age bracket from 40 to post-65, more than 70% of Americans, this was a survey based on about 2,500 Americans, more than 70% responded that they feel comfortable with kindness and they have received or done an act of kindness in the past 10 days. In the age bracket of 19 to 30, that falls to 30%. And that's an incredible red flag, and that's why we feel that it's incumbent on us to push this and especially in this year where we can, in all demographics, have people develop a comfort level with kindness. We received a note from a woman in Ohio the other day. She actually wrote an essay about this. She is a flight attendant for Blue Technologies. and she said that last summer her daughter participated in doing 20 acts of kindness from our Summer of Kindness Challenge. And we have a similar challenge board for kids that schools are going to be sending out to families this summer. She said that just from doing the 20 acts of kindness, she saw a noticeable difference in the way that her daughter treated people and it had an overall impact on the family. And that's what we would like to see Ohio be the leader of. We are actually launching formally the United States of Kindness on April 24th because, per your point, Senator Weinstein, that some people might say, well, 250 acts of kindness. Well, from April 25th through December 31st, there are actually 250 days left in the calendar year. So do one act of kindness, however small. And I know that, you know, every time I see Senator O'Brien, there's a big smile on her face. I consider that an act of kindness because I feel good every time I see Senator O'Brien. So, you know, it could be as simple as that, and that's something that I'm sure that we all want to encourage among Ohioans.
Are there any additional questions from the committee? Seeing none, thank you very much for your testimony today.
Thank you for your time. Thank you for your attention and for all you do.
Now I'd like to recognize Vice Chair Brenner for a motion.
I move to favorably report Senate Resolution 271 to the Committee on Rules and Reference and leave the voting rolls open at the discretion of the chair.
Clerk, please call the roll.
Chairman Tester?
Yes.
Senator Brenner?
Yes.
Senator Johnson?
Yes.
Senator O'Brien?
Yes.
Senator Landis?
Yes.
Senator Lamora?
Yes.
Sufficient votes?
With sufficient votes, the resolution is favorably reported to the Committee on Rules and Reference, and I don't believe we need to leave the roll open because everyone's here, so members, just be sure to sign the roll before we are finished. And that will conclude the second hearing on Senate Resolution 271. Now we will call up House Bill 59 for its fourth hearing. We will continue to hear invited testimony, and I would like to recognize Sam Smith on behalf of the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency for invited testimony.
Welcome to committee.
Thank you. Good morning. Chairman Manchester, Vice Chair Brenner, Ranking Member Weinstein, and members of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee. My name is Sam Smith, and I am the Chief Legislative Officer for the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency. I would like to thank all of you for the opportunity today to speak on the occupational licenses under the jurisdiction of Ohio EPA. Since 1972, Ohio EPA has been committed to its mission of protecting the environment and well-being of Ohioans across the state. We do this through regulatory programs that ensure Ohio has clean water and air and its citizens are protected from environmental spills and releases Ohio EPA is the delegated authority by U EPA to oversee federal environmental regulations at the state level such as the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, and National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System. By assuming these responsibilities, Ohio EPA ensures the state meets federal standards. Ohio EPA helps businesses and communities comply with environmental regulations, issuing necessary permits in a timely fashion, and promoting sustainable growth. Through its various divisions, Ohio EPA issues occupational licenses per Ohio statute to individuals serving in various positions. Today, I will discuss occupational licenses under the jurisdiction of Ohio EPA's divisions and the importance of these licenses in ensuring the safe and clean Ohio. I will begin with our division of drinking and groundwater. The Professional Operator Certification Program ensures that Ohio's public water and wastewater systems are run by qualified operators who make daily process control decisions that protect public health. Certified operators oversee facility operations, monitor compliance, and report data to Ohio EPA. Federal law requires states to maintain such a program or risk losing 20% of their state revolving fund allocation or supports vital water and wastewater infrastructure projects. Ohio EPA issues certifications across 14 classifications covering water supply, distribution, reclamation, and collection systems. The program administers thousands of exams and training courses annually, issuing about 1,000 new certificates and 4,500 renewals each year. The program reviews approximately 30 reciprocity applications, approximately 1,500 new course applications, and 2,000 courses approved by training providers per year. Certification fees have been unchanged for more than 25 years and range from $25 to $65 for renewals and $45 for new license. In state fiscal year 25, these fees generated approximately $250,000, which covers only part of program costs, with the remainder funded by other sources. This program is essential to ensuring Ohio communities have safe, reliable drinking water and effective wastewater treatment. Next, I will move on to licenses issued by our Division of Environmental Response and Revitalization. The Voluntary Action Program, also known as the VAP, allows individuals and companies to voluntarily investigate and clean up environmental contamination with the incentive of receiving a legal release from the State of Ohio confirming that no further action is required. The program leverages private sector expertise by certifying qualified engineers and scientists to verify that cleanups meet Ohio EPA standards. professionals carry out the work independently of ongoing agency involvement, but must meet annual continuing education and recertification requirements. Ohio EPA issues around 10 new certifications each year at $2,500 and about 100 renewals at $2,000, generating roughly $270,000 annually to fund program staff and continuing education. Fees were considered under the last five-year review in 2024 and maintained at current levels. By encouraging voluntary cleanups, the VAB reduces contamination risk and improves public health while promoting economic revitalization. Ohio's Hazardous Waste Permitting Program protects human health and the environment by regulating the storage, treatment, and disposal of hazardous waste. Permits cover all aspects of a facility operations from design and emergency planning to cleanup and financial assurance Ohio EPA was recently granted full authority and primacy over the RCRA hazardous waste program meaning industry no longer needs to go to U.S. EPA and can obtain all their hazardous waste permits through Ohio EPA. Typically, fewer than three new permits and about five renewals are issued each year, with renewals occurring once every ten years. Fees include $1,500 for new or renewal applications and annual charges ranging from $500,000 to $40,000, depending on facility type, generating about $270,000 annually. This revenue supports program administration and helps Ohio fulfill its obligations under the Federal Resource Conservation and Recovery Act. A 2023 fee comparison confirmed Ohio's rates remain well below regional and national averages, and fees have been maintained at current levels. Next, I will move on to our Division of Air Pollution Control. Ohio EPA administers the state's asbestos program established under the Federal Asbestos Hazard Emergency Response Act, which requires accreditation and licensing for asbestos-related work in schools and other facilities. Since 2018, Ohio EPA has issued licenses for asbestos abatement contractors and certifications for workers, supervisors, project designers, evaluation specialists, and air monitoring technicians. Each year, the agency processes about 1,200 new and 3,800 renewal individual certifications, along with 30 new and 215 renewal contractor licenses. Certification fees range from $50 for workers to $200 for specialists, designers, and evaluators, and $100 for AM-Moderny technicians. Contractor license applications require a $750 fee, proof of certified staff, a record of projects completed in the last year, and disclosure of unresolved abatement work, penalties, or lawsuits. Training providers must apply for Ohio EPA approval with fees of $900 for initial courses and $300 for refreshers. Licensure fees generate about $900,000 annually to fund program oversight, with rates unchanged since 2004. Ohio EPA also oversees certification related to the Enhanced Motor Vehicle Inspection and Maintenance Program, known in Ohio as E-Check, which enforces the 1990 Clean Air Act amendments. The contractor trains and issues vehicle inspector certificates with Ohio EPA approval, while the agency directly issues certificates for repair shops and waiver repair technicians. About 200 inspector certificates, five repair shop certificates, and eight waiver technician certificates are issued annually. While inspector certification is built into program costs, repair shop and technician certifications are free and voluntary. Vehicle inspectors are not required to complete continuing education, but waiver repair technicians must maintain automotive service excellent credentials. These certifications help ensure qualified personnel perform admissions-related automotive repairs supporting air quality clients across Ohio. I do want to make a note, while House Bill 59 does address occupational licensure requirements associated with the e-check program, program. Under House Bill 54, Ohio EPA was required to submit a state implementation plan revision to U EPA proposing to replace the e program with a self approach Ohio EPA submitted the SIP revision on November 14 2025 On December 11 2025 U EPA published a proposed denial of the revision in the Federal Register U.S. EPA is currently reviewing public comments and wishing a final decision once that review is complete. If U.S. EPA ultimately determines that Ohio may replace the ECHEC program, With the self-attestation program, we're still meeting Federal Clean Air Act requirements. Ohio EPA will remove to repeal all rules associated with the E-check program, including occupational licensing fees and related requirements. Next, I'll move on to our Division of Material Waste Management. The Division of Material Waste Management, also known as DEMWIM, oversees Ohio's solid waste, infectious waste, construction and demolition debris. and scrap tire programs to protect the public health and environment. Ohio processes more than 16 million scrap tires annually, and the agency regulates transporters, storage, recovery, and disposal facilities to support recycling markets and discourage open dumping. The division also oversees the Construction and Demolition Debris Operator Certification Program in partnership with local boards of health and industry, which provides training and continued education to 100 landfill and processing facility operators. The certification has no associated fees. DEMWM and local health districts issue more than 550 operational licenses and registrations annually, including landfills, composting facilities, transfer stations, scrap tire facilities, and infectious waste generators. License fees vary by facility type and are set in state law. Solid waste landfill and infectious weight treatment facility fees range from $5,000 to $60,000. Compost facility fees range from $300,000 to $30,000. In transfer and construction and demolition debris processing facility fees are $750. Scrap tire facilities range from $100,000 to $60,000, depending on type, with transporter registration fees eliminated in 2023. Infectious waste generator registration fees were eliminated in 2025. and each year over $2 million in solid waste facility fees are deposited into the general revenue fund. While scrap tire fees, about $115,000 annually, support the scrap tire management fund. License fees have not increased in more than 35 years. Similar licensing programs exist in every state, and scrap tire regulation is in place in 37 states, including all of Ohio's neighbors. Thank you for your time. I'd be happy to answer any questions. the members of the committee may have.
Thank you very much for your testimony this morning, Senator O'Brien.
Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thank you very much for your detailed testimony. In my district, I have groups that meet. They're so upset with E-check. So they've come to me, and I said, oh, that's federal, and they don't want to hear that. So I'm asking you, can you put it in a capsule form, really shorten that I could say to them where they feel a little like maybe it might end? I mean, they're not going to listen to me go read all of this. They're just not. Right.
Through the chair to Senator Bryan, I could look at a short statement that we could provide you for constituents. I don't know if there's – from what we've seen, it would be fairly difficult for the ECHEC program to go away. The Federal Clean Air Act would need to be reopened and amended for each act to be removed.
Follow-up? Follow-up. So you're saying basically it's going to stay?
Through the Chair, Senator O'Brien. At this current state, that's, yeah, my understanding is that without amending the Clean Air Act, that each act would likely remain in place.
Well, that didn't make my day because they say government comes in and runs everything and they've about had it because they're telling me. I don't know much about vehicles. I just know how to drive one. But actually, they're saying it's not needed anymore. And I would like a rebuttal to that, but you just said, no, it's going to stay with us.
Through the chair, Senator O'Brien, yeah, unfortunately, and I apologize. I understand where your constituents are coming from, but it would require an act of Congress. Thank you.
Senator Landis? Thank you, Sam, for your testimony. I think those lights are melting you.
The what?
I think those lights are melting you. These morning committees, when it's 80 degrees out, they're tough on me. Again, thank you for your testimony. I've been following something out of Cuyahoga County, the Cleveland news market. where there are some federal things going on with E-check that Cuyahoga County has kind of met the standards. One of the things that came into play was the Canadian wildfires that were blowing into the northern Ohio that was affecting our standards. Can you elaborate on that? I mean, is there something going on in Cuyahoga County that we may be on the verge of eliminating E-check in Cuyahoga County?
Through the chair to Senator Landis. So we were going to be designated to a higher level of non-attainment that would have placed higher requirements and burdens on industry in the area. And during that time period when we did not meet the attainment standards, there were the Canadian wildfires. Ohio EPA was able to submit to U.S. EPA and request a redesignation to attainment to exclude those events, those Canadian fire event days where we exceeded standards. And we're able to be redesignated to attainment. So all that really does is kind of keep us in place rather than taking us up to the next level. the way it kind of works is if you think about a pyramid there's your moderate non-attainment and it's these requirements serious non-attainment adds these requirements plus the bottom, severe, this next level of requirements plus everything below it. So we were able just instead of going up to the higher level just kind of maintain our status where we were at. Follow up?
Senator DeMora E-check is a very popular topic so thank you for addressing this
Vice Chair Brenner Thank you, Chair Thank you, Sam How do these fees match surrounding states or the region How are they in comparison across the board And if you don have that is there potentially you could get us what the fees are by comparison to surrounding states for the various laws
Yeah. Through the chair to Senator Brenner. Yeah, I know I mentioned in my testimony that some of it's either below or kind of equal to, but we can look into that. Specifically, if you want us to look at our neighboring states, we can kind of find those fees and develop a comparison and share that with the committee.
Thank you. And once we receive that, we'll be happy to share that with the members.
Are there any additional questions for the witness? Seeing none, thank you very much for your testimony today.
Thank you.
Next, I'd like to call up Leland Arhart from ODNR.
Welcome to committee.
Thank you. Good morning, Chair Manchester, Vice Chair Brenner, Ranking Member Weinstein, and members of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee. My name is Leyland Earhart. I am a Law Enforcement Program Administrator with the Division of Wildlife for the Ohio Department of Natural Resources. Thank you for the opportunity to present information today regarding the licensing responsibilities of the Division of Wildlife. The Ohio Department of Natural Resources ensures a balance between wise use and protection of our natural resources for the benefit of all. The Division of Wildlife's mission is to conserve and improve fish and wildlife resources in their habitats for sustainable use and appreciation by all. The Division safeguards our wildlife resources by managing diverse habitats, regulating hunting and fishing for sustainability, and enforcing laws that limit the spread or introduction of invasive species and diseases. The division manages or cooperates in managing over 750,000 acres of diverse wildlife lands throughout the state, plus the fisheries of 124,000 acres of inland water, 7,000 miles of streams, and 2.25 million acres of Lake Erie, highest portion of 481 miles of the Ohio River. The Division of Wildlife programs and projects are primarily supported by the license fees and permits for hunting, fishing, and trapping here in Ohio. Programs also receive support from the federal aid through the Sport Fish Restoration Dingell-Johnson Act and the Wildlife Restoration Pittman-Robertson Act. The balance of support, about 10%, is derived from fines, donations to the Wildlife Diversity Fund, motor vehicle fuel tax, and other sources, including approximately $2 million per year from the General Revenue Fund. The purpose of occupational licenses issued by the Division is generally to ensure the proper use and maintenance of wildlife species and habitats across the state and to prevent the proliferation of disease and invasive species while balancing the economic and recreational value of wildlife. Licenses the Division oversees are listed in the table that I have included in the written version of my testimony today. The House passed version of House Bill 59 included some changes to the Division's nuisance wild animal control operator licenses, along with fee reductions for both the commercial bird shooting preserve license and fish wholesaler permit. While these changes will result in less revenue for the Division, we are confident we will have enough funding to ensure proper oversight of these programs. The Division of Wildlife remains committed to providing fish and wildlife resources for public use and enjoyment, while protecting them from over-exploitation. Chair Manchester Vice Chair Brenner Ranking Member Weinstein members of the committee thank you again for giving me the opportunity to provide testimony today I happy to answer any questions that you have Thank you very much for your testimony
Senator DeMora. Thank you, Madam Chair. So you just said about the House changing a few things. What did they, how did they reduce it by how much and what were their reasoning?
They compared our license fees for commercial fish wholesaler licenses and commercial bird shooting preserves to other neighboring states and felt that those fees, my understanding is they felt those fees being reduced a small amount would be more in line with our neighbors.
Follow up? Can you tell me what they were, what the price was, and what they're suggesting?
Through the chair to the senator. the commercial fish wholesaler I believe was a reduction from $65 to $50. And the commercial brood shooting preserve license would be a reduction of $200 to $150 a year.
Okay, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator O'Brien. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thank you for your testimony. Tony, are you aware there currently is legislation here to place the right of hunting and fishing in Ohio's constitution? I'm curious what you think about that.
Through the chair to the senator, I am aware that that is being discussed. I do not have an opinion on that. I have not reviewed it, how it's written, and generally I don't weigh in on policy or political decisions.
Senator Johnson? Thank you, Chairwoman. This is a question I get from my constituents a lot. It doesn't deal with the license, so if you'll allow me a little latitude here this morning. People are always asking me how I stock my pond. So what can we tell them? Where can they go to find out how to put some fish in their pond and what kind of variety they should have in there?
Through the Chair to the Senator, They can contact one of our fisheries biologists at one of our district offices, and they'll be happy to talk to them. We also refer people to the local soil and water conservation district who also have guidance on pond stocking.
So ODNR does have some answers for them then?
They would be able to probably provide some general information on pond stocking and then point them to a good reference with one of our cooperating agencies, whether it's the soil and water conservation district or perhaps OSU Extension.
Very good.
Are there any additional questions for the witness? Seeing none, thank you very much for your testimony today. Now I would like to invite Greg Guest on behalf of ODNR.
Welcome to committee.
Thank you. Good morning, Chair Manchester, Vice Chair Brenner, Ranking Member Weinstein, and members of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee. My name is Greg Guest, and I'm Assistant Chief of the OHA Division of Forestry. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today regarding the licensing and certification responsibilities of the Ohio Department of Natural Resources Division of Forestry. The Ohio Department of Natural Resources ensures a balance between the wise use and protection of natural resources for the benefit of all. The mission of the Division of Forestry is to promote and apply management for the sustainable use and protection of Ohio's private and public forest lands with the vision of healthy, diverse forests valued for their life-sustaining benefits they provide all Ohioans. Part of this goal is accomplished through the issuance of the Certified Prescribed Fire Management Manager Certification The Certified Prescribed Fire Manager Certification allows its recipient to manage prescribed fires burns in the state of Ohio Approximately 25 certifications are issued annually and 40 certifications are renewed annually, with over 200 active certifications for prescribed fire managers across the state. There is no cost for the initial certification or renewal, but there is an $80 fee for the cost of the division's instructional course. Interested parties can obtain alternative training if it meets the requirements of OAC 1501-3-1301. The division-offered course fee revenues amount to approximately $800 annually, which is primarily used for materials to support course delivery. Training includes 30 hours of classroom instruction. Interested parties must also have prior professional experience working on at least 10 prescribed and or wildfires. The workload to administer the prescribed fire manager certification program is primarily performed by five to seven employees across the state, but totals less than one half FTE position. Ohio has nearly eight million acres of forest land, covering approximately 30 percent of our state. These forests provide clean water, wildlife habitat, soil and water protection, and support a 30 billion dollar timber industry. When done correctly, prescribed fires can enhance these attributes, but every prescribed burn has the potential to escape and become a wildfire. Wildfires can damage property and put human life at risk. As such, uniform standards for training and certification are necessary to prevent these outcomes.
Chair Manchester, Vice Chair Brenner, and Ranking Member Weinstein, and members of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee,
thank you again for giving me the opportunity to provide testimony today. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have at this time.
Thank you very much for your testimony. Are there any questions for the witness? Seeing none, thank you again. Now I'd like to invite Benny McCammett, also from ODNR. Welcome to committee.
Thank you. Thank you.
Good morning, Chair Manchester, Vice Chair Brenner, Ranking Member Weinstein, members of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee. My name is Benny McCammett. As mentioned, I'm the Chief of the Division of Mental Resources Management at the Ohio Department of Natural Resources. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today regarding the licensing and certification responsibility that our division performs. The Ohio Department of Natural Resources ensures a balance between wise use and protection of the natural resources for the benefit of all in the mission of the Division of Mental resources specifically, is to provide for the safe and environmentally sound development and restoration of mineral and fossil fuel extraction sites. Our mine safety program promotes safe mining practices for the protection of miners through services that include safety audits for accident prevention examinations, issuing certifications, mine rescue support, safety training, and accident investigations. Blasting program staff approve blasting plans for mining permits, investigate blasting complaints, train on explosive use and rules, and conduct examinations and certify blasting professionals. All this work is conducted for both coal and industrial mineral mining operations that the division regulates in order to protect miners and contractors working on mining sites, as well as the public in close proximity to those mining sites. The Mine Safety Program works from a budget of approximately $3 million per year, funded mostly by general revenue funds and by small grants from the Mine Safety Health Administration. known as MSHA. The blasting program and staff are funded by severance taxes collected on both coal and industrial minerals. In total, less than $2,500 annually is collected for all certifications and for examinations and certification fees through the division. The House made some changes to our certifications that the division issues in the House passed version of House Bill 59. These changes include the elimination of the mine foreperson of non-gaseous mines and the foreperson of non-gaseous mines certificates related to coal mining, because MSHA now considers all mines to be gaseous. As such, those certifications are no longer needed under federal rules. The House also removed outdated references in the code related to the fire boss, the shop fire and the foreperson of surface maintenance facilities of underground or surface mine certifications that were eliminated in the most recent budget bill. These standalone certifications were eliminated because their duties now fall under the responsibilities of individuals with the mine foreperson certification. These are all changes that the division requested and are supportive of, and we appreciate the General Assembly's assistance in updating our portion of the revised code to better reflect the current practice and the mine safety industry needs. Chair Manchester, Vice Chair Brenner, Ranking Member Weinstein, and members of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee, thank you again for giving me the opportunity to provide testimony today. I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you for your testimony. Are there any questions for the witness? Seeing none, thank you again.
Thank you.
Now I would like to invite Charles Haskell to offer testimony on behalf of the Ohio Athletic Commission.
Welcome to committee. Thank you.
Good morning, the Honorable Senator Manchester, the Honorable Vice Chair, Senator Brenner, the Honorable Ranking Member Weinstein, and the members of the Ohio Senate Oversight and Reform Committee. My name is Charles Haskell, Executive Director of the Ohio Athletic Commission. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to provide testimony to keep the Ohio Athletic Commission as its own commission and allowing it to remain in its current northeastern location, Youngstown, Ohio. The mission of the Ohio Athletic Commission is to maintain high standards for promoters, contestants, officials, and non-officials for all combative sporting events regulated by the commission. In addition to regulating events, the OAC regulates the licensing of athlete agents to protect the rights and interests of all college and high school athletes while they are in negotiations with professional sports agents. The Ohio Athletic Commission resides in Youngstown, Ohio, and consists of five voting members appointed by the governor and two non-voting commissioners, one from the Senate, one from the House, one executive director, one full-time employee. The OAC has currently selected a temp worker to start as soon as all necessary paperwork has been submitted and approved. The OAC is a 4K90 funding source. I am writing in opposition to House Bill 538 and House Bill 59 as relating to the Ohio Athletic Commission. I believe combining the OAC with the Department of Commerce creates unnecessary bureaucracy between the public and the governing body. Under the proposed legislation, the executive director of commerce would assign an athletic director Combative sports is an ever and decisions are made right up to the day of an event or fight Fighters cancel on a moment's notice. Officials cancel last minute. Fights fall off up to the day of the fight. Having the executive director of the Department of Commerce assign the officials while the athletic director oversees an event is not practical. The strength of the Ohio Athletic Commission resides in the executive director's ability to be able to develop and maintain relationships with various worldwide combative sports promotions, as well as regional and local promotions. The OAC is pleased to announce that a WBO world title fight is scheduled in Cleveland, Ohio, on July 4, 2026. The revenue from high-profile events is a major source of revenue for the state of Ohio. Bringing world-class and national events to Ohio helps to advertise and sell Ohio on pay-per-views, streaming services and major networks. Balancing these events with several local and regional events helped keep the bigger promotions coming back to Ohio. Over the last 20 years, the OAC has done an outstanding job in maintaining and bringing back world-class entertainment. Youngstown alone has five past world champions. These relationships would be lost if the commission was moved to Columbus and combined with the Department of Commerce. The concentration of Combating sporting events is predominantly in the Northeast Youngstown, Cleveland, and Akron areas, having events sold out every weekend. The concentration of these events in Northeast supports the commission to stay in Youngstown, Ohio. Moving the commission would be detrimental to the loss of local revenues as well as state taxes as the number of events would decrease. The OEC has developed extensive relationships with many of the officials, non-officials, gyms, and athletes in the area. The sheer number of the events in this area is evident as the number of boxing, MMA, and other combative sports licenses have steadily increased for the last five years. The number of licenses in fiscal year 2021 was 155. After COVID restrictions were lifted, the number of licenses rose to 430 in fiscal year 2022, 459 fiscal year 223, 541 fiscal year 224, and 616 in fiscal year 2025. Competitor license, that should be 25. The increase in licenses is a direct result of the concentration of events in the Northeast. The more competitors, the more non-official licenses, such as trainers, seconds, are required. Over 70% of the event permits are issued in the Northeast. That encompasses less than one-fourth of the state. Moving the commission to Columbus would have a severe negative economic impact for Northeastern Ohio. I strongly believe we should support and grow Ohio's combative sports culture by keeping its roots firmly where they initiated or were developed. The OAC has close ties with local authorities across the state. Illegal fights are cropping up all over the country as social media fuels such participation. To my knowledge, for the first time, the OAC worked with local law enforcement in northeast Ohio to prevent a series of legal fights and prosecute the offenders. The OAC is continuing to monitor illegal fights across the state. Many surrounding states work with the OAC to keep an eye out for such illegal fights in each other state. The hope is to have local law enforcement shut down the event before it happens. This network will be lost if the commission is moved to Columbus and combined with the Department of Commerce. Over the past couple of years the OEC had a rough transition to update the rules policies and laws pertaining to the Ohio Athletic Commission Many new requirements submitting laws were needed to be adopted to bring the rule reviews up to date. I am pleased to say that the Ohio Athletic Commission is currently up to date and has implemented the proper procedure to change, keep, and add new rules to the Administrative Code or the Ohio Revised Code. The OAC will continue to follow the guidelines set forth by the House and Senate. The transition from the past executive director to the current executive director was facilitated almost instantly, resulting in no time to learn the administrative processes necessary to operate the OAC. Since this time, the OAC has updated its computers as well as its policy and procedures. It has seemed that many commission representatives and contacts from the departments have moved on to different areas or have retired. This change further facilitated the need for the event administration to catch up with policies and procedures. In addition to a quick transition and a change in administrative personnel across the state, the Ohio Athletic Commission had another big setback with the passing of its only full-time secretary, Judy McCarty. Judy, at the beginning of last summer, unfortunately took time off work to fight a reoccurring bout of cancer. No one was hired or interviewed during this time as we thought that she would be cancer for yet another time. Despite all the efforts, she passed away in December 2026. She was the OAC secretary for only 20 years. It is during this time that the OAC was operating with an executive director myself and one part-time administrator, Melinda McQuade. House Bill 538 was introduced as part of House Bill 59 in October 2025. Over the next month, the OAC updated all their laws, with some reaching back to 2017. As a part-time secretary, Melinda was able to not only organize the medicals, but also take on Judy's responsibilities, while I concentrated on updating the laws and dealing with the events. All the OAC rules were updated in December, and scheduled events went off without interruption, despite only having one full-time employee and one part-time employee. It wasn't until a few weeks ago that Melinda was able to take Judy's position as a full-time administrative professional for. We had a setback hiring a temp worker that had to, unfortunately, the first one had to, unfortunately, decline the job opportunity. Fortunately, last week, the OEC agreed on a temp worker as she has filed and submitted the paperwork. The OEC is excited to have her start as soon as possible. Lastly, I have been involved in combative sports in both boxing and MMA since the early 2000s. I have promoted over 100 shows at amateur and pro levels. With this knowledge, I have expertise to ensure the best possible matchups without endangering the contestants. I understand the challenges of promoting, and I am always available to figure out last-minute problems when the need arises. I will work with all promoters and fighters at any level to give them a fair and safe experience. As the current Executive Director of the Ohio State Athletic Commission, it is my goal to bring in more events, allow more combative sports if they meet the state guidelines, and provide the necessary structure to ensure the safety of every contestant and their matchup is as fair as possible. I fully believe that if this commission is moved to Columbus and combined with the Department of Commerce the needs of the combative sporting community in Ohio will not be met and could endanger the health and safety of the contestant If anyone has any questions please do not hesitate to call me or ask me for any questions at this time Thank you very much for your testimony Vice Chair Brenner
Thank you very much. Thank you for your testimony today. Where are you with the status of the JCAR rules?
We're 100% updated. We updated all 104 rules. They were done in December.
Senator DeMora?
Thank you, Madam Chair. So who did you piss off in the House to have your commission disbanded and have to be moved to the Department of Commerce?
I believe, to the Senator, to the Chair, I believe that because of past policies on the administrative level, the way rules and laws were updated in the past, and we weren't updated since 2017, 2019, that when Calendar looked at the events, or looked at the situation and saw the rules not updated, that was the driving force to have these changes. With that said, we're updated 100%, but even more, well, secondly to that is we have developed a process that hasn't been done in the past, such as presenting a rule or a law to the commission, having them review it, put it on, so to say, to approve it. From there, taking that rule or law suggestion, submitting it to the Common Sense Initiative for a business impact analysis. From there, two weeks later, to review their suggestions and then to file the necessary paperwork, where it takes up to 65 days, but about 40 days to approve that law, to make the necessary changes. In the past, what has happened is this was all kind of combined into one. There was really no business impact studies. There was really no common sense initiatives. It was all combined on, you know, one piece of paper where all the rules were kind of just thrown in there. With the passing of a lot of people that have been in the office, I believe, down in Columbus, not the passing, but moving on for retirement, the commission is very old, very strongly founded in the ways of having things done with a lot of help. As people moved on, we had to figure out the correct process, not just what was done in the past, and we have that done now. And so even next month, I have about four or five rules to propose to go through the proper steps, which I just outlined. And I think that was the biggest obstacle that I had to face. I am very well versed in putting on the events, working with everybody in the state, developing relationships with, you know, promoters at the world-class level, but also at the local level because they fuel the bigger events. And even, for example, the first talker, Stewart, you know, I'm very interested in what he does with his random acts of kindness. Because at Youngstown and Cleveland, too, this is a very good market for a population that's not normally targeted for things like this, and would be the combative sports community. So I'm very good at developing relationships on all levels. What was lacking, to answer your question, was the administrative process that we had a quick transition that was done. At one point, it was all up to the current one. And with that said, we are quite capable now of conducting the administrative and the policies and procedures that we weren't in the past.
Follow-up?
I'll take your answer.
Senator O'Brien?
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for your testimony. Thank you for standing up for Northeast Ohio. My district is as far north and east as you can get in Ohio without being in Lake Erie or Pennsylvania. Here's my question. I understand you're basically dealing with boxing and adults. I'm curious about our athletes that are student athletes. They're not adults yet. And we already have the Ohio High School Athletic Association. Is this duplicative? So I'm curious about that.
So we deal with what they don't deal with. So the combative sports athletes. So primarily all boxing, mixed martial arts, any type of combative art. However, we do have the, which I would like to address now too, we also have the athlete agents that was presented to us a while back. And what we do with the athlete agents is just make sure they have a proper contract, that they're fiduciary responsible, and that they're registered. And that is something that we need to look at too and make the appropriate changes for that But that doesn really answer your question Your question about we just pretty much deal with combative arts combative sports in the state of Ohio not any other sport
Follow up? So, okay, but when you're not an adult and you're an athlete, even for boxing, your parents have to, I believe, sign that contract because you're not an adult yet. So am I missing something?
Yes.
Through the chair.
So we do not do any, we do not regulate anything under 18. USA Boxing does. I have a letter from the chairman of USA Boxing for the Lake Erie Association, which regulates the events up there, detailing our close working relationship. And a lot of times we have hybrid events, so to speak, where we work with USA Amateur Boxing. They do under 18. They have their Olympic committee. And then we do the pro part. So all the participants, and this is very important, they want to do a sport for a reason. And a lot of that is to be in the Olympics and ultimately to turn professional. Whether they make it or not is a different issue, but USA Boxing Olympic affiliate deals with under 18. We deal with over 18 at the professional level.
Are there any additional questions from the committee? Thank you very much for your testimony. And I will just note for the committee's reference that there has been an amendment submitted to address this issue, and we're actively having discussions about our options. So thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Thank you very much for the opportunity.
And perhaps a name change would be helpful in us understanding what exactly you oversee So real quick I probably or our commission receives several phone calls a day with the same issue
Because, and there's a lot of OACs. There's Ohio Administrative Code. There's, you know, there's different sportings. There's high school level. and so I understand. So the commission might be open to that. Okay. The commission is open.
Thank you again for your testimony. And lastly, I'd like to invite Keith Vakasinovich to offer proponent testimony on behalf of the Ohio School Counselor Association. Welcome to committee, and please correct me if I mispronounced your last name.
Close enough, Vukasinovich. Chair Manchester, Vice Chair Brenner, ranking members Weinstein and members of the state government oversight and reform committee. Thank you and good morning for allowing me this opportunity to testify on House Bill 59 on behalf of the Ohio School Counseling Association. My name is Keith Vukasinovich. I'm a school counselor and I serve on the Government Relations Committee for Ohio School Counselors Association. I'm here to offer support for provision in House Bill 59 that would modify required career training professional development under the law. A provision was added to the law in 2023 requiring school counselors grades 7 through 12 to complete four hours of professional development in the constructions trades developed by ACT Ohio that must be completed at a building and constructions trade training facility. Ohio School Counseling Association finds this required training that must be completed every five year renewal cycle, overtly restrictive. While Ohio School Counseling Association would support the requirement being repealed, we understand the legislators' desire to have career professional development codified. The language in House Bill 59 continues to retain that all school counselors grades 7 through 12 during their initial licensure period will receive the ACT Ohio Building Trades training but would no longer require the training for every five-year renewal cycle. In its place, the bill adds additional flexibility for counselors to engage in expanded career development that focuses on expanded in-demand careers and student opportunities. School counselors who have taken the ACT Ohio training report that while the training was valuable and informative, it would not be needed every renewal cycle and would become repetitive. The requirement for this specific training also is not reflective of the wide range of possible careers available to their students. Career planning and development is one of the three domain areas of strong school counseling program. School counselors are often the ones arranging career days as well as connecting students to career planning resources. They manage college credits plus and work with local ESCs to ensure that students have a variety of tools to explore their post high school pathways. The newly proposed language allows school counselors to seek professional development opportunities in a range of in-demand careers that will appeal to a broad range of students. I thank the committee for their consideration and hope that you will support this change to reduce an occupational licensure burden for Ohio school counselors. I would be happy to address any
questions you may have. Thank you very much for your testimony. Are there any questions from the committee? Seeing none, thank you again. Members, please note that there is written only proponent testimony on your iPad submitted by Courtney Myers on behalf of the Ohio Environmental Health Association in addition to interested party testimony with Scott Williams on behalf of Ohio Realtors Kate Mavco on behalf of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that will conclude the fourth hearing on House Bill 59 seeing no further business before the committee we are hereby adjourned