Senate Rules Committee

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Madam Chair, the former Secretary of Natural Resources has requested to make a statement and make a motion on this.

Well, my statement is the motion. I am pleased to move Monterey County Sheriff Tina Nieto to be a member of the post commission.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

please have a motion for that? So moved. Thank you, Vice Chair Grove. Can we please call the roll?

Second.

Do we have a motion? May I make a statement before we have a motion? So I'll make the motion to move these, but just aware for public, the only thing before this committee is the authorship change. Amendments have gone to the subsequent committee that's going to happen when it's set in a few weeks or next week, and then the amendments will be taken at that committee.

Aye.

Director Hurdle, you're welcome to join us.

Wonderful. Good afternoon, President Pro Tem and Senators. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and for your consideration of this nomination. I want to begin by thanking Governor Newsom for the trust he has put in me in taking this role, and also to all of you and your staff for meeting with me before this hearing. I'd also like to recognize my husband, Matt Hurdle, who is sitting in the second row back there, along with my many colleagues from the department and agency departments who joined me today and online, and for the support they've given me every day in this role. And I want to thank the many organizations that have submitted letters and that have met with me in my first four months. For the department to achieve its mission of taking care of California's plants, fish, and wildlife, we have to work across boundaries. And I'm grateful for people who show up, even when we don't agree, to talk through things and find collaborative solutions. So a little bit about me. I have spent a lot of time outside. I was raised by a single working mom, so nature was usually my babysitter. I grew up in Florida and over the course of a decade watched our beaches developed into hotels and private parking lots, which restricted access. It destroyed habitat for animals like sea turtles and ultimately took away the buffer that protected our communities from storm surges and hurricanes. This has greatly informed my commitment to conservation and the way I approach it because I see people as part of the solution. If we don't find a path forward where we balance the needs of people and we balance the needs of nature, nature is often what loses. And so it's an incredible privilege to be considered and to do this role for the department, the department that is responsible for taking care of California's nature for the benefit of our people now and into the future. So California is home to more people, more agriculture, and more economic activity than anywhere in the country. It's also home to more biodiversity. That means more plants, more animals than almost anywhere else in the world. And it is the responsibility of the department to care for that. That biodiversity that defines California, it's what you think of when you think of our home, right? It's the iconic redwoods, our coasts, our amazing desert. That also underpins our economy and our community health. And so we have a great responsibility to protect that and conserve it in a way that works for people. My job as director of this department is to lead the department to be science-focused, outcome-oriented, to be collaborative, committed to our mission, and pragmatic. So you've got my commitment to an open-door policy to work through issues and to do my best to make sure that we continue to serve California's nature for all people. It is the privilege of my career to be here today, so thank you for this opportunity. And a massive thank you to all the department staff who every day inspire me with their commitment and their excellence. It is a privilege to serve alongside them. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Pro Tem. Thank you, Director Hurdle, for being here. And thank you for meeting. Thank you for taking my calls. Thank you for engaging in everything that we kind of, you know, throw at you from the Central Valley and the North States perspective. I really appreciate your willingness to like you said be an open door and to you know engage in the conversation and look at it from both sides I appreciate that very much about you Obviously you have a strong background in conservation and biodiversity And how do you see CDFW working with farmers and ranchers Obviously, biodiversity and the background that you have is vitally important for CDFW's director position. But there has to be a balance. You know, I realize it's a delicate ecosystem, but when individuals, mostly on the opposition side of ranchers and families, ranching families, see the loss of a baby calf as just an economic loss, it's not. It affects the ecosystem. It affects the families, of course. But if you've ever watched these videos, and when this beautiful little baby calf drops on the ground and these wolves just rip it apart, it's heart-wrenching. So those baby calves deserve protection just like wolves do. So how do you balance that, and how do you make sure that both are all individuals associated with this situation? How do you make sure that everybody's got a seat at the table and everybody's voice is heard, including law enforcement who want to protect public safety? And I'll get into a mountain lion issue in a few minutes.

Moving on to, I don't want to say a more serious subject, but in El Dorado County, we had a mountain lion drag a teenager off a walk path, take him out in the woods and bury him to come back. I can eat him later right in front of his brother. This was a loss of life. If you look at ring cameras or cameras that are positioned around that community, you see mountain lions walking in and out of school, schoolyards where elementary and preschool children play. The children are locked up inside when mountain lions are alerted or there's a mountain lion alert. Families, their kids sometimes can't go out and play because mountain lions are after their goats or their little small farm animals or their dogs. and cats. There was a bill recently a couple of years ago by my colleague in the assembly assembly member had, excuse me, the senator, Senator Alvarado Gill, that would give sheriffs the opportunity to tree and free and to exercise that seemed like a very common sense solution. Obviously, it didn't remove the authority that CDFW had, but it gave the elected sheriff, the person who is elected by the people in that county, the ability to tree and free mountain lions to keep them. It's the sheriff's job to keep those communities safe. That's why they elect the sheriff. They don't elect the sheriff to keep the streets clean, but they elect the sheriff to keep them safe. And so one of the things that you deal with is in this diverse state, you don't have to worry about this in the center of Los Angeles, but in this diverse state, you have a mountain lion issue in our north state. So what are tools that the CDFW can do and what commitments can you make to make sure that there is some type of cooperation with local authority and sheriffs? Because now we're moving on from baby calves to human beings and teenagers. And I want your assurances that you're going to help our North State address the predators that we have, especially when they're coming after our children.

I can't see it.

Okay, thank you. And I'm sure my colleague from the Inland Empire will address this, but just in case she doesn't, because she's not here, I also represent the Western Joshua Tree. And people in the high desert area went to that area because they appreciated the Western Joshua Tree, and they love the desert environment. They refer to themselves not me but a majority of those people refer to themselves as desert rats because they love the desert They love the sunsets the environment the beautiful landscapes that there are I, you know, I like the ranch life. So the desert doesn't do a lot for me, but there are a lot of people that live out there. The frustration I have as a senator that represents that area is only my constituents pay for the Western Joshua Tree Program. Only why constituents can't hook up to city sewer and city lines, because every house, I don't care what house you own, every house in that area has at least one and possibly up to 10 Joshua trees on their property. So to disturb a Joshua tree to get hooked up to city sewer so that your family has water is almost impossible because the permits for removal and relocation are so astronomically expensive. a household that makes $47,000 a year on average cannot afford to do that. When a tree dies or children can't participate in play, I shared that with you that there was somebody that came and filed a complaint that a child was kicking over a small Joshua tree. It's a succulent, by the way, and if my colleague from the Natural Resources, former secretary, we would argue over that. but kicking over a Joshua tree, it's in their yard. It's their property. There has to be some type of mitigation that is allowable that does not fall on only the constituents in this valley. The main opponent of any Joshua tree removal or any Joshua tree language change lives here in Sacramento. She spends a lot of time in the desert, but she doesn't pay for one of those trees. She doesn't pay for any of this mitigation, and neither do the people who live up here or in Los Angeles. But we pay for it. And these individuals that I represent in the Central Valley are individuals that are on a medium to low income, and they can't even afford to be put up to city water when the law is requiring them to be hooked up to city water. So how are you going to balance my Joshua Tree issue?

And I appreciate that. And like I said before, I appreciate your willingness to at least listen to both sides because I've evidence, and it's not that you've changed your mind, but evidence giving the conversation that you've had on both sides, which wasn't traditionally happening in the past. Sometimes it did, but not traditionally on a regular basis. And you've really put an effort into that, and you have been able to solve problems. And I like that you're not somebody who's, that's a roadblock, we can't go there. You're like, okay, let's figure out how we can make this work. So you're that person, and I appreciate that. Where I think that we need a little more work, and not to make you work harder than you are, But mining facilities like cement mines, cement plants, they already have a reclamation permit that they fill out and apply for, which means they have to return the land, which it was before, if they abandon the mine. But they're still required to pay for a tremendous amount of money to provide cement or cement, if my colleague next to me was here, cement, to produce cement. Otherwise, we get it from Japan and China and overseas or the Green River Valley in Wyoming. So my question is that 95% of the cement provided to build SoFi Stadium in my colleague of Los Angeles' area, SoFi Stadium, came from my district. But the Western Joshua Tree, again, two hours from the National Park. I'm not talking about the National Park. I'm talking they really are succulents, and they sprout up wherever those little seedlets drop. So two hours from the national park, they are in jeopardy of closure because of the Western Joshua tree and not being able to mine for cement and expand their mind on the property they already own that's already under original reclamation permit when they open the plant. Have you been meeting with them, and is there anything that you would like to offer me to make me feel better about that situation? Because it affects cement for the entire state and region, but it affects jobs in my district.

Thank you.

I look forward to your confirmation. You have been a breath of fresh air. Not that Chuck wasn't, but you have been a breath of fresh air, and I appreciate your hard work on these issues that we deeply care about. California is a diverse state. Different people care about different things. My colleague from Santa Monica, he gets mad every time I say this. He cares deeply about solar. I said he could take my 6,000-acre solar plants and put them on his beach anytime he wants. So we're a diverse state, and we care about different issues, and I appreciate you taking the opportunity to learn both sides of those issues. Thank you.

Thank you. Senator Reyes?

Thank you for that question. And also, I just want to compliment you on your butterfly pin. It's very appropriate for my nomination discussion.

You know, golden mussels is an incredibly serious issue. So we are the first state in the country to have golden mussel occurrence. It started in the Bay Delta, but of course that is the hub of much of the water distribution of the state. And once it is in there, it is almost impossible to fully remove. So for places that are connected to the Bay Delta through water distribution and water supply, right now the effort is really to treat and contain it and then to keep it from getting into water bodies that are isolated. So the department immediately sprung into action when golden mussels were detected, and we have many different ways that are reworking on it. One of the primary ways is the Golden Muscle Task Force. So this task force is co-led by the department, includes state and federal agencies, working to bring cutting-edge science to how do we respond and treat this, working to understand what are the best containment mechanisms, and how do we better support and best support the folks on the ground that are having to deal with this. We are also, we have a regulation, not a regulation, we have a framework that guides our strategy associated with it that's been published. and we are also looking to invest money in our staff to provide technical assistance to help local water managers create the plans for how they manage and control this. So those are just a few of the key ways that we are engaging in, but we have quite a few staff working on this.

Great question. And again, Chief Arnold is here, So really thrilled to have our wardens represented in this room. They did a great job during the hearings. The 500 men and women people that represent us do some of the most incredible work in California. But like you said, the department underwent a process called service-based budgeting. So in 2021, we released a report that we worked on with Deloitte Consulting, which is a world-renowned external consulting firm, that allows us to look at our mandated mission level against the hours of staffing that we've got. And so every year we're able to go and look across eight different areas to understand how much staffing do we have versus... is what we're required to do as part of our mandate and our role as trustee of fish, wildlife, and plants in California. And you're right. We are at about one-third of what we need to actually meet our mandate. Now, there's multiple different ways we try to address this gap. The first is prioritization. So we look across each of those areas and part of service-based budgeting is so we can be transparent about where we have gaps and where we're fully staffed. So that allows us to prioritize across all of them. Second thing that we're doing is we are looking at technology that can help improve our processes, where we can find efficiencies, we try to get them. We are looking at new science that can help us do our jobs better. A great example of this is parental-based tagging or PBT tagging of salmon that allows us to tag the baby salmon before they go out. We take genetic material. When they come back, we know where they started. It helps us improve our management. When it comes to law enforcement, looking at things like infrastructure or equipment approval, We were actually able to buy a new patrol boat that increases the amount of area that we can patrol off the coast, allows us to do more with that patrol boat, looking for those types of efficiencies and improvements. Of course, eventually, at some point, you need capacity, and so that is always something we're talking about. We also are trying to tell our story better so folks understand what it is the department does day in and day out, and we're always interested in having more public-private partnerships to help achieve our mission.

Thank you, Senator Reyes. We will go to Senator Laird.

Respectfully, I'm not going to get in the middle of this one.

Conservation can be really complicated. And what I mentioned in my opening remarks is that to reach durable conservation outcomes, you have to have people part of the conversation and decision making. So for me, it's incredibly important to base it on science, get the best available science that we can, understand where various stakeholders are on the position and what it means for them when that decision is made or when we work for a conservation outcome. How is it going to impact the people on the ground that live with this every day? Work, of course, with the administration and elected officials to understand what you're hearing from constituents and what you're seeing on the policy landscape. And then work to weigh all of that to come to the most durable outcome that we can get to.

Well, first, I just want to brag for a moment because our Marine Protected Area Network has been recognized by the IUCN, which is an international organization, as part of their Green List Network. It's the first network of sites worldwide to be recognized for the environmental benefits that it's having. The establishment of these 124 sites was challenging. It took many years, many people coming to the table to talk about impacts to fishing, to communities, to all the ways people use and love our coastal resources and to bring cutting edge science. We just underwent a decadal management review. So basically a 10 year look back at how are these marine protected areas functioning. And the good news is they're working. So we are seeing some fish species be bigger and more abundant in various marine protected areas. And after a heat wave that happened in 2012 and 2014, we found that some of the MPAs actually recovered faster than areas outside of those MPAs. Now, MPAs make up about 16.2% of the 30 by 30 objective. And right now the Fish and Game Commission which is an independent but sister agency to the department is going through a review process to determine if there should be additions to the marine protected area The department provides scientific advice to the commission, so we are in the process. We've given some of our recommendations. We're in the process of completing the rest of them, but then there'll be public comment on how to grow them. For 30 by 30, what I will say is this is an international effort. Scientists have pointed to the extreme loss of biodiversity to call for protection of potentially 50% or more of our land or ocean areas. There have been papers calling for the 30% as a rallying cry. What's great about this is that it provides a transparent framework by which we can track our progress. We can show what counts and what doesn't count toward reaching that 30% goal. Is it the end-all, be-all? No. But does it provide us a goalpost to drive to? It does. And one of the key parts of this has been the relationships with tribes and the marine protected areas. How have you related to tribes and how do you see them just as part of the whole mix on this? Like the director before me, I strongly support tribal partnerships, whether that be access, co-management agreements, or ancestral land return. return. Tribes in the state of California have stewarded this landscape since time and immemorial. It was not long ago that we thought to conserve a piece of property meant that you remove people from it. You set it aside. You stop all good fire from happening. And we are now dealing with the consequences of that when tribes have long told us that people are part of nature and part of the landscape. So we have a lot to learn from tribes. And while it is an honor to get to lead the Department, which is one of the oldest wildlife agencies in the United States of America, it also means we have a long legacy of doing harmful things for tribes, and we need to make that up. We've done one ancestral land return. I'm looking forward to doing more of them, and we have lots of opportunities to look at co-management or access in a way that can bring tribes back to their ancestral lands. I was just up in Crescent City on Monday talking to Elk Valley Rancheria, so I'm really trying to get out and create those relationships and make sure we continue to

spending time meeting with elected officials, understanding where the priorities lay within the stakeholders and with elected officials, and also time out meeting with staff. So my priorities as they're shaping up right now. That sounded like they had to be on a time out.

No timeouts. You know, my number one priority is making sure that we can meet our mission of protecting plants, fish, and wildlife and do that in a way that still lets essential infrastructure, housing, renewable energy get done. That's that fine balance that we have to walk with the department in this role. I'm also very much focused on our lands. We manage over 1.2 million acres of land across 700 different properties. Some of that is open to the public. Many of it is in your community. Senator, we were just talking about one that you go to. And so really finding ways to help deferred maintenance and help our lands be stellar examples of what California represents from a landscape. Also working to tell our story better. This one relates back to ensuring that we can get resources to help meet our mandates. How do we tell the story to a broader set of constituents across the state of California? And then finally, working within the department to make sure we're a modern department that supports the incredible staff that we've got. So those are my early priorities. I reserve the right to change them as I continue to work with you across the next year plus. And then I will just say, you know, there are a variety of tools that we can use to address our budget shortfalls. This is not unique to California. States across this country, their departments of fish and wildlife, many of them face issues like we do with respect to funding. Missouri is the gold standard in that they take one-eighth of 1% of their sales tax goes to fund their Department of Fish and Wildlife. There's other innovative techniques like taking a portion of outdoor sporting good tax or Oregon just passed one where they're taking part of their hotel tax to fund their Department of Fish and Wildlife, including their work on human-wildlife conflict and wolves. So we are always looking at what other states are doing and assessing that. And then, of course, the same tools that we just talked about, thinking about how do we better use technology like the iPads you just referenced to further stretch the capacity that we've got? And then how do we do more public-private partnerships? Your example of philanthropy coming in to help create the MPA network, right? We can do that across all kinds of issues. So there's a variety of tools that we can access.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Certainly, I think in the legislature, there have been a lot of examples of our attempts to try to keep both wildlife and humans and the people in our community safe. And so that has been a bit of a challenge. But I think you've answered some of that in terms of, you know, farmers, livestock and that interface. I also, you know, wanted to piggyback just a little bit on Senator Laird's comments related to resources. To the department's credit or the agency's credit, we have heard year after year the importance of resources in particular for the farmers and livestock challenges in terms of monitoring, in terms of being able to assess the situation, but also being able to mitigate some of the challenges that we see, whether it's bears, wolves, or other animals. I just wonder, as you look at the long-term needs of the agency, how do you grapple with a situation where the resources may not be there to the extent that you fully need them, but the demand for your time for the individuals are? What is the thinking and how we balance that? Yeah, it's a great question. It is the challenge of running a large department in a state that is currently facing budget challenges where you have to make tough choices across not just natural resources, but health and human services, infrastructure, all of those things. A couple of thoughts on that. One, recognizing that we will even win better funded and with more capacity. likely not be at the level we would like to be. It's incredibly important that we look at prioritization using different technologies and science to make sure we're targeting the right techniques. And then particularly for human wildlife conflict, outreach and education is so important. Getting people the information and the tools they need to prevent human wildlife conflicts in the first place is leaps and bounds the most successful thing that we can do. During the general fund surplus, we had $5 million that we invested into human-wildlife conflict, and that represented having people out in every county working with local officials and communities to help educate them on how to be aware of bears and mountain lions and things they may come into contact with. We were also able to fund equipment that was able to go out, like bear canisters, secure trash cans to help prevent animals from coming into the human spaces. We also invested in more permanent things, So we have a wildlife incident reporting system online where people can go online and actually report to us when they're seeing wildlife or interacting with them. So there's a variety of tools that we can use to get the information out there that ultimately, hopefully, will create permanent education and changes in the way people live in communities that can help prevent wildlife conflict. Thank you. And shifting gears just a little bit, one of the concerns that our district has faced, and certainly your department has been following this, is the issue of pipeline safety. and I wanted you to just speak a little bit in terms of what the department does to ensure that we have pipeline safety issues and how you work with other entities to try to make sure that communities are safe and in particular want to just recognize it's a big deal in my district and I'm grateful for the work you've done thus far. I am really proud that the Office of Oil Spill Prevention and Response sits within the Department of Fish and Wildlife. This is roughly 200 people that are focused every day, not just on responding when there's an oil spill in coastal waters or inland, but in making sure they don't happen in the first place. So they spend a lot of time working with the companies that are either moving oil or creating oil within California to make sure they have prevention plans, make sure they've got the funding in place to actually respond should there be a spill. Just this week, I was supposed to go out with Chevron, have them do a boom deployment. They're practicing to make sure they're ready in case there is a spill. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to make it, but these are happening all of the time. Our Office of Oil Spill Prevention and Response received something like 800 reports of oil spills, big and small, that they respond to. A great example is the spill that just happened in Los Angeles where drilling for fiber optic cable actually hit an oil line and roughly 24 gallons of oil went out in the storm drain and hit the L River But because of the response of our office in coordination with local entities, we were able to prevent that from reaching the marine environment. So we're really proud of that response, which is just wrapping up now. So in addition to prevention in the first place, this office also does quite a bit of research on what are the new and best technologies to respond when spills do happen or to help prevent them. And then, of course, when there is a spill, we are out there responding to it. And then once a spill is done, we do the natural resource damage assessment to make sure that the polluters or the people that are at fault end up paying for the repair of it. So it is incredibly comprehensive. In my first few weeks, I actually sat at a tabletop exercise to walk through what happens when there is a spill off the coast of California and was amazingly impressed at just how professional it is, the technology we've got, and the systems and structures, including existing MOUs with federal partners, that allow us to respond and be in co-leads in these situations. Thank you. So this is the moment that we turn to the public. If there are individuals who are here to speak in support of the appointee, we welcome that you come forward. Please just state your name. There is a big group. to state your name, your affiliation, and position. I'm sure that folks would be okay with you going first. Assemblymember. Yes, Assemblymember. You're welcome to go first. Assemblymember Hathaway. Thank you. I'm happy to wait in line. I just wanted to thank Megan for coming and spending so much time in my district and happy to support her today. Thank you, Assemblymember. Good afternoon, Stacey Heaton, rural county representatives of California, representing 40 rural counties statewide. Our counties deal with a number of issues that intersect with the Department of Fish and Wildlife, including lake and streambed alteration permitting for emergency management, incidental tape permitting for development of housing and other things, and of course, wildlife-human coexistence, which is a big issue for our counties right now. Now, Megan came and met with our folks, I think, before she even got appointed to the position. She has reached out. She has brought a refreshing spirit of collaboration between the department and our member counties. And she even came up a couple weeks ago and spent a few days in Yosemite with about 35 elected county officials, just hearing their concerns and being communicative and collaborative with them. So we are proud to be here today to support her appointment and to urge your aye vote. Thank you. Thank you. Just a reminder, just name, affiliation, and position. Good afternoon, committee members. I'm Pamela Flick, the California Program Director for Defenders of Wildlife, in strong support of Ms. Hurdle. For director, we urge you to confirm her. She brings a wonderful set of skills and experience to this position, as you've heard, and we really look forward to continuing our work together. Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members. Jennifer Fearing on behalf of a number of our firm's clients, the Wildlife Crossing Fund, Oceana, the Surfrider Foundation, the Wildlife Conservation Network, Wildlands Network, the California Wildlife Officers Foundation, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, Occidental Arts and Ecology Center, and the National Wildlife Federation also asked to share the support for the director of the Animal Legal Defense Fund and the California Wolf Foundation. And I'd just like to say how thrilling it is that while Megan is the second woman to lead the department, she is the first woman to lead the Department of Fish and Wildlife so renamed several years ago So we couldn endorse her confirmation more Thank you Thank you Good afternoon. Kim Delfino with Earth Advocacy. On the behalf of a number of clients, the California Native Plant Society, Catalina Island Conservancy, Sonoma Land Trust, Golden State Salmon Association and Cal Trout, but also speaking for EDF, Pacific Forest Trust, Resource Renewal Institute. Oh, and I forgot my other client, the California Association of Susan Aquariums, and in strong support of Megan, whom I've known for many years and is very well qualified for this. Hi, good afternoon, Chair and members. Juliana Tetlow. On behalf of San Diego Humane Society. We are one of the largest licensed wildlife rehabilitators in the state, often receiving baby wildlife, including two little bear cubs that we're rehabilitating right now. We really look forward to working with Megan as the director and continuing our partnership with the department. So I encourage the aye vote. Thank you. Good afternoon. Jake Schultz on behalf of the California Habitat Conservation Planning Coalition in the Lanchester Santa Cruz County and 10 other environmental organizations detailed in our letter in support. Thank you. Hi, good afternoon. Michael Chen with Audubon in California in strong support. Thank you so much. Good afternoon. Ellen Weir on behalf of Grassland Water District and Ducks Unlimited, representing waterfowlers in California in strong support. Thank you. I'm Marik Weiss, Senior Wolf Advocate with the Center for Biological Diversity in very, very, very strong support for this candidate and already existing incredible leader. It's such a privilege to have her. Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon. Tim Carmichael on behalf of the California Council for Environmental and Economic Balance in strong support. Thank you. Pro Tem members, Stephen Fenneroli with the California Farm Bureau in strong support of Director Hurdle today and just appreciate her showing up from day one, willing to listen and lead by example. So thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mark Fenstermaker on behalf of the California Association of Resource Conservation Districts, Sustainable Conservation, and the Big Sur Land Trust in strong support of Megan's confirmation today. Thank you. Good afternoon. Tasha Newman on behalf of the California Council of Land Trusts, the Wildlands Conservancy, Coachella Valley Conservation Commission, and the Bolsa Chica Land Trust, all in strong support. Thank you. Good afternoon. Noah Bonayan, Government Affairs at Keep Tahoe Blue and a member of the California Tahoe Alliance in strong support. Thank you. Ashley Walker on behalf of Nausamen. We are representing Santa Clara Valley Water District and Coachella Valley Water District in strong support of this confirmation. Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon. Erin Norwood on behalf of the Almond Alliance representing 7,600 growers and over 100 processors of all men in this district in strong support. Thank you. Thank you. Madam Chair and members of the committee, Bill Gaines on behalf of several wildlife conservation organizations, including the California Bowman Hunter State Archery Association, the California Deer Association, California Chapter of the Wild Sheep Foundation, the California Houndsman for Conservation, and also the support for the California Rifle and Pistol Association. Thank you. Thank you. Hello there Mark Henley with California Waterfowl Association We very proud to support Ms Hurdle in this nomination and we know she will do a great job So really appreciate her being here. Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon. Jason Bryant on behalf of the California Cattlemen's Association in strong support. Ms. Hurdle has been collaborative, engaging, and thoughtful, communicative with the association and its leadership, and we're proud to support her. Thank you. Thank you. Juan Altamidano, Director of Government Affairs with the Trust Rebel Clan. Extremely excited about having Megan be the director of this program. As a former colleague at Audubon, California, spending almost nine years with her, she's undoubtedly the most qualified individual in this room to be nominated for this position. And as a friend, she is one of those most kindest and incredible human beings. You know, everything that you have heard today from your questions, she's somebody who undoubtedly has a lot of empathy for everyone and willing to listen to everyone at the table. Thank you. Thank you. Mark Smith on behalf of Smith Policy Group. All of my clients were so excited to support Megan's nomination. They came themselves. So I'm going to do this in my personal capacity. I support Megan. I've worked with her for over 13 years. Thank you. Thank you. All right, seeing no individuals, other individuals to speak in support. Do we have any individuals here in opposition? All right, seeing that, we are going to bring it back to the dais members. I will entertain a motion. Vice Chair Grove? Yes. Thank you. It's my privilege to move you to the full Senate floor for a vote and to make that motion. And I've been sitting on this committee for a long time, and I'm not against anyone else, but you are one of the very few qualified, completely qualified people. The last one I remember completely in this situation with the same collaborative kindness and humility that is offered in such a high, powerful position with Sivagunda. So thank you very much. Thank you. All right. We have a motion. So I will go ahead and call the roll. Limon? Aye. Limon, aye. Grove? Aye. Grove, aye. Laird? Aye. Laird, aye. Ochoa, Bogue? Reyes? Aye. Reyes, aye. Four votes. All right, you have four votes. Congratulations. We will leave that open for absent members to add on. Thank you. We will now turn to governor's appointees required to appear. we have item 1B, the appointment of Caroline Thomas Jacobs as director to the Governor's Office of Emergency Services. And as folks are exiting, we will welcome Ms. Jacobs here and just ask folks to take conversations outside, please. Thank you for being here, Director Jacobs. And so you may begin when you are ready. Thank you. Good afternoon. Very impressive. Madam Pro Tem Senators, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. As you mentioned, my name is Caroline Thomas Jacobs, and it is my honor to be appointed to serve by the governor as the director of the governor's Office of Emergency Services. And today I'm joined here by my wife, Renee, in the gallery and my two children, Corinne Clive. online. It is only because of their love and support that I'm able to be here with you today. Renee, Coren, Chloe, I love you. I accepted this appointment because I am deeply committed to the Cal OES mission, the safety of all Californians, and most importantly, the responsibility to lead an organization that must perform at its best on California's hardest days. From 2021 to 2026, I served as the director of California's Office of Energy Infrastructure Safety, where I oversaw the state's landmark utility wildfire safety regulatory program. In that role, I worked to advance statewide safety standards to improve oversight of utility wildfire risk and strengthen the accountability for infrastructure operators serving tens of millions of Californians. Prior to that, I led the Wildfire Safety Division at the California Public Utilities Commission, guiding the development of the state's initial regulatory framework for utility-caused wildfire prevention. I previously served at Cal OAS from 2014 to 2019, including as chief of headquarters response, supporting the state operations center during the North Bay Fires, the Thomas Fire, the Camp Fire, the Montecito mudflows, the Ridgecrest earthquake, and the first large-scale responses to the public safety power shutoffs. Across these roles, I have gained firsthand experience managing some of California's most complex emergencies and helping advance critical safety reforms. Cal OAS plays a crucial role in protecting life and property by ensuring the state is prepared to respond to, recover from, and mitigate disasters and emergencies of all types. As director, I take seriously the responsibility to maintain the operational capabilities, the partnerships, the resources required to execute that mission effectively, and to ensure Californians can rely on us when it matters most. The reality is that the demands of emergency management have never been greater. California's size, complexity, and risk profile requires us to be prepared for a wide range of threats at any given moment. As you may have heard just today, we had a magnitude 5.6 earthquake in Mendocino County. Additionally, climate-driven disasters are becoming more frequent and more severe, and California continues to face an increasingly dynamic all-hazards environment involving wildfires, floods, earthquakes, cybersecurity attacks, infrastructure disruptions, and, of course, major planned events, including the current 2026 FIFA World Cup and the upcoming 28 Olympics and Paralympics Games. At the same time, diminishing federal resources and preparedness resources present challenges that require proactive planning, strong collaboration, and strategic leadership. Wildfires remain one of our state's most persistent threats, and my experience dealing with these disasters and their cascading impacts has given me a broad perspective and a clear understanding of the systems and partnerships that are required to keep Californians safe. As director, I am focused on ensuring Cal OES has the capabilities and resources to meet California's evolving all-hazards environment so that we stay ahead of these increasing threats. My priorities include strengthening statewide partnerships and preparedness and resilience advancing a modern and reliable next generation 911 system supporting ongoing recovery to the Los Angeles fires ensuring California is prepared through the World Cup and the upcoming 28 Olympic and Paralympic Games and deepening the collaboration with local governments, tribal nations, our community-based organizations, and our state and federal partners so that California remains ready for whatever challenges lie ahead. And above all, emergency management is about keeping people safe and serving California communities before, during, and after disasters. And my approach in leading Cal OES is and will be firmly anchored in these principles. So I thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today, and I am grateful for your consideration and look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. Members, questions or comments? Yes, ma'am. All right. We will start with Vice Chair Grove, then go to Senator Laird, then Senator Reyes. Thank you, Director, for being here today. I appreciate very much the opportunity to have time with you. I apologize that we couldn't schedule time before. We did try. We did try. So you were appointed the Director in March of 2026, and with the background of leading the Emergency Infrastructure Safety Office, how do you draw from your previous experience to the new role that you've been holding since March? Yeah, thank you for the question. I really appreciate it. So, you know, as I mentioned, I did work at Cal OES for many years prior to getting the opportunity to be the director and stand up energy infrastructure safety. And I had the unique opportunity in that role to create the department. So in that effort, I learned a ton about not just the, let's call, operational implementation of whatever the regulatory role we were playing, but the key elements of supporting and building a team. and nurturing that team to ensure that we are driving to meet the mission that we have, as well as working with our stakeholders and our legislators to make sure that we're ultimately meeting the mission of what our regulatory mission was in that particular role. So what do I take to bring here at Cal OES? For me, I fundamentally am excited to be back at Cal OES because I had been, like I said, been there before. So I know the work. I've done the work. But I'm really excited about being able to invest in the team and build out the capabilities to ensure that we keep evolving the organization, again, to meet that evolving threat that we have in California. Because we live in a complex time with complex issues. And ultimately, when it comes to responding to emergencies, we need to make sure that we are always ready to be able to respond to those in a thoughtful way and with the capabilities that the state can bring. Thank you. In 2025, the Los Angeles wildfires, there was a lot of question raised about what was determined as fire-damaged properties and for families to return and to rebuild. And there was a lot of questions about delays and not having the families go back onto the properties for what was labeled as safety issues. And I get that. You've just had, you know, not just wood burns in a fire, right? Boats, fiberglass, metal. I mean, there's a lot of contaminants, and I get that. So given Cal Oasis' role in coordinating disaster recovery, what standards should California put forward or use so that property can adequately be cleared and made sure that there's no contaminants that would be harmful to human health without, again, the emphasis on without and necessarily delaying the family's return to inhabit if it wasn't burned down or to rebuild? Yeah thank you again for the question I appreciate it So I mean obviously I wasn here during the LA 25 fires but it was a big focus coming into this position because the recovery continues Right So there been you know I know that it was a massive response in terms of being able to quickly clear I think it was over 10,000 properties in six months. In that particular case, it was the federal government. We coordinated with the federal government and they did the clearing. And I think there's always opportunities for us to learn from each disaster to ensure that we're seeing what process changes we can have, how we can bring more to the response to be able to get people back in their homes as quickly as possible. I was leading the state operations center during the campfire. That at the time was the biggest debris operation that we had. It was 18,000 different properties in that particular case. And we always want to be able to get people back into their homes quickly while safely. And I think that we have opportunity to continue working with our state partners and our local partners to ensure that we avoid any process delays in doing that. And I have my commitment to ensure that we do have those collaborations to make sure that we do that. Thank you. How will Cal OES work with utilities to make sure that wildfire prevention decisions and the PSPS events don't leave rural communities and residents, farms, food processors, all of us, right? I represent a rural community, and I feel like PSPS shutoffs are a daily thing. It's just so annoying. And I realize that there was a bill that passed that made utilities responsible for wildfires. And so they are very overly cautious about making sure that there's not a spark or anything, especially on hot days. But when you shut off and have a PSPS shutoff for a full city without notice, or they say there is notice, but there's like 10 minutes notice, you can't shut down a wastewater treatment plant in 10 minutes. There's got to be a better solution than what we're operating in now and have been operating in the last few years. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, so I was at Cal OAS when sort of PSPS, public safety power shutoffs, were invented. So actually was the lead with the utilities when we were designing how should we as a state make sure that we're coordinating with our locals to be able to respond to exactly those cascading impacts, right, of the power shutoffs. So at the time, what we did is we set up rules for the utilities in terms of the level, along with our public's PUC, the Public Utilities Commission partners, to ensure that there were rules in place that the utilities were required to coordinate with locals and make notifications. And to this day, at the warning center within Cal OS, we have communication with the utilities when they're going to be doing that. Actually, we literally just got notified this morning that Edison has one planned in a couple of days here. And so we begin that coordination early. And then we hold consistent calls with our state partners and with the utilities to ensure that they're getting the information to the locals and being very clear about when and where those shutoffs would be to ensure that the community can respond appropriately and support its residents. In terms of what are the rules in place to try and drive the reduction of the use of public safety power shutoff, because I think you're absolutely right. It was originally, they say it's a motivation, mitigation of last resort, but because the utilities, you know, five, six, seven years ago didn't necessarily have these other wildfire mitigations, it was the one tool they had in their toolbox. The good news is through the work that I did with energy safety the prior department I was at we have invested with the utilities a lot of work on requiring them to build up different types of wildfire mitigation so that it reduces the number of times they need to do it and that it more surgical smaller and narrow and shorter in the places where they do need to do it To your point though it still a tool that they have in their toolbox that they have to pull out when they feel like there no other way to keep the community safe from a potentially utility ignition But the goal needs to be to continue to reduce that as a tool that they use. Thank you. Last question, then I have a comment. But California taxpayers Fairs have already spent $456 million on a 911 system that CaliOS was a part of and that they were directing, but they've now moved away from that to a statewide program. What governance oversight are you going to make sure that's in place that the constituents and all of us represent are on the hook for another costly, ineffective, necessary, but ineffective tool like the NG 911 program that was scrapped? Yeah, thank you for that question. I think it's a really important question. It was obviously a primary focus area for me as soon as I came into Cal OES was to make sure that I got a lot of information on what had been done, where are we currently at, and how do we make sure, most importantly, that we're moving forward to building a modern, reliable next-gen 911 system for the residents of California. So I think there's a number of lessons that can be learned from the past, and we are making sure that we're incorporating those and applying those to everything we're doing to move forward. And to your point, I think governance is really an important one. And we are very engaged with our 911 advisory board to make sure that we can have true collaboration with them on the advice that we get from them. So we're enhancing that engagement with them, working with our stakeholders to make sure that we're hearing with them. I've already been out to several of our dispatch centers to hear directly from the users because at the end of the day, I think the most important people in this equation are the person who's making the call and the dispatcher who's receiving that call to make sure that they can get the information to the right place and ultimately dispatch that call. So we're definitely making sure that we have the right team in place as well as the governance structure over that team so that we can be moving forward with a successful rollout of it. One of the other things that I implemented right away that actually she's going to be starting in just a couple weeks here is bringing in a dedicated project director, program director, for the implementation of that project so that we have dedicated resources on it to ensure a successful rollout. Thank you. I have not had the opportunity to work with you. Don't take offense to this. I don't want the opportunity to work with you because I have worked with two of your predecessors, Mark and Nancy. incredible, thoughtful, caring, responsive. But I've had the opportunity to work with them in times of disaster in my district, like the Creek fire and campfire, other, other fires and disastrous situations that we've had. And so, so you're very qualified. I'm going to support your nomination, but I really hope I don't ever have to have work with you. And, and I know you'll be, don't take that wrong, but do you know what I'm saying? Like whenever I have to work with you, it's going to be a disaster. Not worth you, but because of the situation. I totally understand. And I often say to my colleagues, I really hope I never have to call you. But if I do, please pick up the phone. Yes, exactly. That's exactly what I say. You are very qualified. I have total faith and confidence in you. You have big shoes to fill your previous, the predecessors before you are very complimentary of who you are and your ability and your capabilities. And so I'm very excited that you're taking on this role, but I hope I never hear from you. No offense. I'll try not to call you. Thank you. No, but if you need to, you do. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to go to Senator Laird, then followed by Senator Reyes. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. And thanks for the meeting. And we did have this conversation yesterday where I said, how's the earthquake early? warning system going, and this morning at 810, I was at an appointment when the alarm went off, and everybody in this office is where I was, is trying to figure out if they're feeling the earthquake, or if it's coming, or if they should duck. So that is a good thing, but it's sort of following up. It leads to a question I didn't quite ask yesterday, and that is, is I had the misfortune of being on the city council when we had a 7.1 earthquake that destroyed our downtown. We lost 60 percent of the square footage in our core downtown. It was closed for three or four years. We had to completely reconstruct the infrastructure. We learned all these things the hard way. And how do you, for even state officials, try to prepare them to understand how they might need to think or react when they have a situation like that? So we do a number of exercises. I'll I'll give you the sort of the formal response in terms of the formal ways that we prepare them. CaliOS works regularly with our state partners on exercises to a number of different disasters to make sure that we have contacts or a warning center on a yearly basis, or actually even more than a yearly, checks up on points of contacts to make sure that we have all the right contacts, that we then do exercises with all the different levels within the organization, even up to the cabinet. I'll tell you later this week I have a cabinet meeting and I'm on the agenda to talk with the cabinet members about responding to different emergencies and just do a refresher, knowing that we're going in to our sort of peak wildfire season. And the big boss told me when I got this job, don't forget we have earthquakes and it's clear that we still have earthquakes. So making sure that we're always in constant communication, because I think what, to your point, it's about muscle memory. I learned very early on in my childhood with my own personal experience with a fire, a house fire, that if you haven't done it and you don't do it regularly, it's not the way you're going to respond. So we make sure that we have

earlier. It's always good to meet with someone who is highly qualified, who has the experience, and I think that reading your resume, it shows that just every step of the way you were working towards this very position, and I'm very glad that you're there. One of the things that one of your duties, one of your titles, is our representative, California's representative to Homeland Security. What does that mean?

Wonderful. Thank you for that. My other question had to do with the mobile high water suppression system but my colleague beat me to it And thank you for looking into that I think that with as many legislators who signed on to the letter who are asking for an answer this was our opportunity to bring it up to you. My next question has to do with the World Cup that we're going through now, and then in a couple of years we're going to have the Olympics. It's going to take lots of law enforcement personnel to make sure that we are keeping everybody safe. What is your department, what are you doing to prepare for, we'll talk about the Olympics. FIFA is already here. You've already done all the planning. Everything looks like it's going well. But what about the Olympics?

And I understand that by the end of July, you'll have an idea of the number of personnel you'll need. If we don't have enough local law enforcement, what's your next step?

Neighboring state. As opposed to going from the state of California to the feds.

Very good. And what sort of training will you require from the law enforcement that comes into California to help out?

Thank you. And finally, oftentimes there is great concern in some of our communities more than others about the presence of ICE agents. And so I want to ask, is it ICE agents that you're going to be looking to to help our local law enforcement when it comes to the Olympics?

And my question then is, would you be willing to do a webinar that we can organize so that we, of course, would bring our community in to learn more about your Office of Emergency Services so that the community then learns more about what they can do to prepare?

We'll be scheduling that now. Thank you.

Thank you.

And thank you for being here. Thank you for your work.

Oh, I think actually, no, it was the director of Fish and Wildlife. We were aware of it, too. We gave him the spill report.

in a timely manner. Yeah, no, I think that's a great observation and a great question at the same time, because it's clear in emergencies, right, it's the worst day of most people's lives, right, when that thing happens. And so it's literally bringing order to chaos, and we need to bring calm and care and order to that situation. So I think a few things is one, showing up. When I first came on the Cal OAS, I talked with my team about how fundamentally at the end of the day, if you were to sum up everything that Cal OAS does, it is that we need to show up when people need us, right? So what that means is connecting with those in their time of need, being in the places where they need us to be so that they see that we're working with our local partners and our state partners and our community partners. So physical presence, I think, is a real key element there, as well as making sure we have the clear lines of communication. I agree with you that it's oftentimes there's literally multiple lines of communication happening at the same time and to sort of bring those threads of communication into a single voice. So we're constantly looking to try and help do that and also always welcome feedback if there's ways that people feel like we can do that better.

This is the moment that we turn to members of the public. If there are members of the public that are here to speak in support of Director Jacobs, please come forward, state your name. Your affiliation.

the California State Association of Counties in strong support of Director Thomas Jacobs' appointment and confirmation. Thank you. Good afternoon, Mark Smith on behalf of CalNINA, that's the California chapter of the National Emergency Number Association. That's a mouthful,

All right. Seeing nobody else, I'll bring it back to the dais, and I will entertain a motion.

Limon, aye. Grove?

Grove, aye. Laird? Ochoa Bogue? Reyes? Aye. Reyes, aye. Three votes. All right, that is 3-0. We will leave that on call for absent members to add on. Congratulations. Congratulations. All right. So this does conclude our agenda, but we are going to be waiting for absent members to add on to our votes. And we do have a clarifying statement on one of the prior pieces of one of the prior votes that we took. This is specific to authorship changes, and so this is – give me one second – item. This is Senate Rule 26. This is the item on the agenda related to number 4 and 5. Senator Grove.

Is that clear enough?

Thank you. Thank you. So with that clarification, we're going to go ahead and recess as we wait for absent members to join us. Thank you. Reconvene in 30 seconds The rules committee is reconvened and we have our absent members here who are going to take up the vote Members, we're going to start from the top of the file and go down, if that's okay with you. Oh, it's the top of the file. You know I was trying to do a favor, but I can start the way we started the committee if you would like. I'm just going to go back and kiss my friend, Joshua Tree. Okay. Okay. So the last two items that we took up that are at the top of the file are governor's appointments required to appear. Item A is Megan Hertel, Director of Department of Fish and Wildlife. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogues? Aye. Ochoa Bogues, aye. Five to zero. Thank you. That is five to zero. The next item, Governor's Appointments Required to Appear. Item B, Caroline Thomas Jacobs, Director of Governor's Office of Emergency Services. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Laird? Aye. Laird, aye. Ochoa Bog? Aye. Ochoa Bog, aye.

Going on to Governor's Appointees Not Required to Appear. Item 2C, Jay Bradshaw, member of the Transportation Commission. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogue? Aye. Ochoa Bogue, aye. 5-0. Thank you. We'll close the roll on that one. Item 2D, Kelly Bosler, member of the Central Valley Food Protection Board. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogue? Aye. Ochoa Bogue, aye. 5-0. Thank you. We'll close the roll on item D. Item E, Justin Doring, member of the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogue. Aye. Ochoa Bogue, aye. 5-0. That measure is passed and closed. Item 2F, Kelly Gordon, member of Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogue. Aye. Ochoa Bogue, aye. 5-0. Thank you. That measure is 5-0 and passed. We'll close the roll. Item 2G, Jacob Johnson, member of Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogue? Aye. Ochoa Bogue, aye. 5-0. My measure has 5-0. Close the roll on that Item 2H Jeff Long member of the Commission of Peace Officer Standards and Training Madam Secretary please call the roll Ochoa Bogue Aye Ochoa Bogue aye 5 Thank you Item 2I, the incredible Tina Nieto, who is the sheriff, one of the incredible sheriffs that we have, member of the Commission and Peace Officer Standards and Training. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogue. Aye. Ochoa Bogue, aye. 5-0. Thank you. We'll close the roll on that one. Item 2 J. Benjamin Tarathald, Member of Commission of Peace Officer Standards and Training. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogues. Aye. Ochoa Bogues. Aye. 5-0. That's 5-0 and that measure is closed and we'll go on to Item 2K. Monique Moyer, Member of the San Francisco Bay Area Water Agency Transportation Authority. Board of Directors. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogues. Aye. Ochoa Bogues. Aye. 5-0. Thank you. We'll close the roll on that one. Bill referrals. Item 3, reference to bills to committees. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogue. Aye. Ochoa Bogue, aye. 5-0. Thank you, Madam Secretary. The next item we have is Senate Rule 26, which is item number 4. Item number 4, are we taking 4 and 5 up together, or are they separate? Okay, together. So item number four is persuading to code Senate Rule 26, Assemblymember Lackey requests to assume authorship of AB 2676, currently pending referral and authored by former Assemblymember James Gallagher in order to pursue the measure. The second item in that group is item number five, persuading to Senate Rule 26, Assemblymember Patterson, request to assume authorship of AB 2700, currently in State Energy Utilities and Commissions Committee, and to be authored by former Assemblymember James Gallagher in order to pursue the measure.

Madam Secretary, please call the roll. Ochoa Bogue. Aye. Ochoa Bogue, aye. 5-2-0. Thank you. Having dispensed of all of our items, the Rules Committee is adjourned.