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Committee HearingAssembly

Judiciary — 2026-06-09 (partial)

June 9, 2026 · Judiciary · 25,197 words · 12 speakers · 167 segments

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Assembly Judiciary Committee. In order for us to complete our agenda and allow everyone equal time, the rules for witness testimony are that each side will be allowed two main witnesses each. Witnesses will have approximately two minutes to testify in support of or opposition to the bill. Additional individuals should state only their names, organization, if any, and their position on the bill at the appropriate time. As you perceive a witness in public comment, I want to make sure everyone understands the committee has rules to ensure a fair and efficient hearing. I'm not going to go over all those rules because I think everyone's going to behave themselves respectfully today.

Senator Morningsenator

And we can go ahead. We don't have forum, so we'll go ahead and proceed as a subcommittee and start with item one, SB 99, Senator Blakespear. Good morning, Chair.

Senator Weinersenator

Good morning.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning, members. Hello. Hello.

Senator Morningsenator

Ready for me to begin, Chair?

Senator Weinersenator

Yes. Whenever you're ready.

Senator Morningsenator

Thank you. I'm pleased to author SB 99, which is sponsored by the U.S. Department of Defense. SB 99 would strengthen protections for military families by requiring courts and law enforcement to recognize and improve coordinated responses to military protective orders in cases of domestic violence. Military protective orders, also called MPOs, are similar to civil restraining orders and provide protection on and off base. But presently, there are gaps in coverage and understanding between civil and military authorities. Civilian courts may not understand the complexities of military legal issues and they don have clarity that an MPO is admissible in a petition for a domestic violence restraining order This bill makes it clear judges are allowed to use their discretion to consider the full context of the alleged abuse by considering an MPO involving the same parties and the same behavior SB 99 also bridges the gap between military and civilian systems outside the courtroom. MPOs apply off-base, but civilian law enforcement officers can't enforce them. To illustrate the problem, after a military spouse with an MPO moved off base, they were stalked by their abuser. They repeatedly called 911, but local police declined to act, believing that they could do nothing about this. Under SB99, the local police would have been required to notify the military that the MPO was likely violated. The military would then be able to take appropriate action to stop the continued abuse. Finally, SB 99 allows law enforcement agencies to enter an MOU with the military, outlining roles and responsibilities regarding communicating and responding to potential violations of civil restraining orders on base and NPO's off base. SB 99 ensures domestic violence survivors are not left unprotected simply because their abuse crosses jurisdictional lines. With me today in support, I have Kelly Douglas, and she's on behalf of the Department of Defense.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Kelly May Douglaswitness

Good morning, Chair Kalra, Vice Chair Macedo, and members of the committee. My name is Kelly May Douglas, and I represent the Defense State Liaison Office within the Office of the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Military, Community, and Family Policy. My office works with state lawmakers to facilitate policy changes, improving the quality of life and readiness for military families. Within our same directorate is the Military Community Advocacy Office, which develops department-wide policy on the DOD coordinated community response and family advocacy programs. I'm here today as a proud co-sponsor of SB 99, providing some context on why this bill is so critical to the safety of our military community in California, which includes more than 238,000 military members and nearly 89,000 military spouses. While the military has robust programs to address domestic abuse, critical protection gaps exist between military installations and civilian law enforcement and the courts. This is particularly relevant because approximately 75 percent of military families live off base within civilian communities where military authority is appropriately limited, leaving victims of domestic violence vulnerable to jurisdictional gaps. Military protective orders are essential for ensuring victims, say the safety of victims on base and providing military commanders with the ability to limit contact and access to firearms. But they are not a substitute for a legally recognized civilian order, and they cannot be enforced by civilian authorities, which is why we recommend that victims that are protected under an MPO also seek civilian relief. Victims, especially those new to the state, face hurdles in getting access and navigating the civilian systems in order to get the civilian protection they need off base. SB 99 closes these gaps with three key common sense provisions. First, it authorizes judges to consider an existing MPO when reviewing a request for a civilian restraining order. This doesn't mandate admittance of a current or prior MPO or the issues of an order based on an MPO. but provides the court with valuable evidence of a potential pattern of abuse. In short, SB 99 creates a comprehensive framework for the state and military to work together, ensuring patterns of abuse are recognized by courts and that communication lines between law enforcement are clear. This bill will empower victims deter offenders and increase the safety and readiness of our military families Thank you very much and I stand by for any questions Thank you Is there anyone else here in support of SB99

Veronica Badillowitness

Hi, good morning. Veronica Badillo representing Navy Region Southwest on behalf of the military and services in California in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Catherine Squirewitness

Thank you. Catherine Squire on behalf of the California Commission on the Status of Women and Girls, Proud Co-Sponsor.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Is there anyone here in opposition to SB 99? All right, we'll bring it back to committee for any questions or comments. Assembly member Dixon, we don't have a quorum yet, but we'll set that aside for the moment. And absolutely.

Assembly Member Assembly Member Dixonassemblymember

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wouldn't know it's allowed. I'd like to coauthor with you. I have a similar bill, not related to the military, but related to family members who are victims of domestic violence in terms of restraining orders. So I agree with what you're doing, support what you're doing and good luck.

Senator Weinersenator

Assembly member Stephanie.

Thank you chair. And I wanna thank the author and the witness for bringing this forward. I am so supportive. I would love to be added as a co-author. I think cleaning up our restraining order system, both at the state level and within the military is absolutely vital to the, so that we can protect all victims of domestic violence. And again, I thank you for your work.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. All right. Well, thank you. Um, Senator, uh,

Senator Morningsenator

would you like to close? Uh, I respectfully ask for your, I vote.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. We'll get to that as soon as we can. And I believe you have another, uh, bill up today. Item six, SB 1237.

Senator Morningsenator

May I invite my witnesses to come up if they're in the room?

Senator Weinersenator

Whenever you're ready, go ahead. Whenever your witnesses are ready.

Senator Papinsenator

Hello. Hi.

Senator Weinersenator

Welcome. Okay.

Senator Morningsenator

Thank you, Chair and colleagues. I'm pleased to author SB 1237, a priority measure for the Legislative Women's Caucus that is sponsored by Power California Action and Hope. This bill will strengthen enforcement of California's pay equity reporting laws to ensure the Civil Rights Department can effectively combat wage discrimination. California has led the nation on equal pay, but our laws are only as strong as their enforcement. Wage disparities persist. For every dollar that a man earns, women earn only 81 cents, with larger gaps for women of color. For every $1 that a white man makes, black women earn 58 cents, and Latina women earn 44 cents. To better identify and address these inequities, California requires companies with 100 or more employees to report annual pay data to the CRD, disaggregated by race, ethnicity, sex, and job category. However, the department is missing pay data for at least 400,000 workers in California. SB 1237 will strengthen enforcement by increasing the penalty for repeat noncompliance from $200 to $1,000 per employee. Increased penalties will serve as a meaningful deterrent against noncompliance and generate additional resources for more proactive enforcement. This bill ensures employers can't treat pay data reporting as optional and gives CRD the tools it needs to effectively combat wage discrimination. It's a critical step toward ending persistent wage disparities and delivering real pay equity for women. With me today in support I have Ruth Sosa Martinez on behalf of Power California Action and Carol Gonzalez on behalf of Hispanics organized for political equality or hope Thank you Okay Good morning Chair Calra and members

Senator Papinsenator

of the committee. My name is Domari Sid. I am a power advocate with Power California, a third year student at UCLA, and I have been part of the workforce since 2023. As a young worker, I've learned that it can be difficult to advocate for yourself when you don't fully understand your rights or have access to information about your pay. At 19, I was hired on the spot and started working without ever being told what my pay would be. There was little transparency around how and when employees were being compensated, which made it difficult to plan financially. When concerns were raised about working conditions or pay, speaking up came with consequences. This included reduced hours and hostility for management. That experience taught me how difficult it can be for young workers to advocate for ourselves when information and accountability are lacking. For young workers, especially women and people of color, pay disparities can have lasting consequences. As a college student, I'm constantly thinking about how to pay for school, transportation, and everyday expenses while planning for my future. Fair pay from the start doesn't just affect our paycheck today. It affects our ability to stay in school, build savings, support our families and create the long-term financial stability that leads to generational wealth. That's why SB 1237 matters, especially now when 50% of young people, 19 to 24, have entered the workforce to support their families in this economy. Workers deserve transparency. Workers should be able to understand whether they are being paid fairly. Strong reporting requirements help the state identify pay disparities and ensure employers are held accountable. Young workers deserve transparency, accountability, and a fair opportunity to build financial stability for ourselves and our families. And for these reasons, I respectfully ask for your aye vote on SB 1237. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning, Chair and members. Carol Gonzalez, on behalf of Hispanas Organized for Political Equality, proud co-sponsors in support of SB 1237. Hope's mission is to ensure Latinas achieve economic parity, political empowerment, and equal representation. Through Hope's economic status of Latinas research, the organization has documented both the tremendous economic contribution of Latinas and the persistent barriers that prevent too many women from achieving financial security and building generational wealth. While California has led the nation in advancing equal pay protections, too many Latinas continue to face barriers to achieving economic parity. For Hope, SB 1237 is ultimately about ensuring that workers are visible and that California's equal pay laws are more than just promises on paper. By strengthening accountability and transparency, the bill helps ensure that persistent disparities are identified and addressed. Closing wage gap is not a matter of fairness. It's essential to ensuring that Latinas can fully participate in and contribute to California's economic future. Closing wage gaps is not just a matter of—oh, I just said that. When Latinas achieve economic parity, California is stronger. And for those reasons, hope respectfully or just for your aye vote today. Thank you, sir.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Is there anyone else here in support of SB 1237?

Catherine Squirewitness

Catherine Squire on behalf of the California Commission on the Status of Women and Girls in Support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Is there anyone here in opposition to SB 1237? All right, we'll bring it back to committee. We still do not have a quorum, but if there are any questions or comments from committee members.

Assembly Member Assembly Member Dixonassemblymember

Senator, thank you for bringing this forward. It's a space that I've had the opportunity to introduce legislation in many years ago. And it's definitely like pulling teeth to try to get some of these companies to actually do what they're required to do now. They resisted it for a long time until we made it a requirement. And obviously, without the data, it's hard to know what kind of policy steps we need to take in order to ensure that we can move in the right direction of pay equity, which we're so far away from now. I would love to be added as a co-author.

Senator Weinersenator

And would you like to close?

Senator Morningsenator

I respectfully ask for your eye vote.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Thank you. All right. We'll take that up when we get one more person here. Thank you. Okay. Go ahead. And we'll be taking up item 9, SB 1387. Assemblymember Zabir will be presenting on behalf of Senator Stern. And you may begin whenever you're ready. Great.

Senator Papinsenator

Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. On behalf of Senator Stern, I'm proud to present SB 1387, which will improve the accuracy of California's demographic data collection by recognizing that Jewish identity may be reported as an ethnic group identification in addition to a religious affiliation. Jewish identity is unique. For many Jews, being Jewish is not just a matter of religious belief or observance. It is also rooted in shared ancestry, ethnicity, culture, family heritage, language, history, and peoplehood. In fact, research from the Pew Research Center found that a majority of American Jews identify ancestry, culture, or family heritage as essential components of their Jewish identity, and many do not view religion as the primary defining characteristic of being Jewish. Unfortunately, California's demographic data systems generally do not provide an opportunity for individuals to identify as ethically Jewish. As a result, many Jewish Californians may not be accurately reflected in state demographic data. That matters because good policy depends on good data. If we do not collect accurate information, it becomes more difficult to understand demographic trends, identify disparities, evaluate the impacts of discrimination, and ensure that government programs are effectively serving all Californians. Consistent with California's broader efforts to improve demographic data collection, SB 1387 will allow individuals who understand their identity through ethnic ancestral or cultural lens to self accordingly if they choose This bill does not create a new protected class It does not alter existing religious classifications and it does not require anyone to identify as Jewish. Rather, it recognizes that Jewish identity may include an ethnic component for those who choose to identify that way. SB 1387 will help California collect more accurate information, better understand the experiences of Jewish Californians and make more informed policy decisions moving forward. I ask for your aye vote at the appropriate time and would like to be added as a co-author to this bill.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Is there anyone else here in support of SB 1387?

Senator Papinsenator

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Cliff Berg here for Jewish California, formerly J-PAC, the largest coalition of Jewish organizations in the nation. I'm pleased to be the sponsor and in support of this legislation. Also here for the following organizations, Jewish Long Beach, Jewish Family and Community Services East Bay, Jewish Community Relations Council of Sacramento, Jewish Family Services of Los Angeles, Jewish Family Services of the Desert, Jewish Center for Justice, Jewish Coalition of Berkeley, Jewish Family Services of the Silicon Valley, Jewish Federation of the Bay Area, Jewish Democratic Club Coalition of the Bay Area, Jewish Family and Children's Services of San Francisco, the Peninsula, Marin, and Sonoma counties, Jewish Federation of Los Angeles, Jewish Federation of Greater Santa Barbara, Jewish Community Relations Council of Orange County, Jewish Federation of the Desert, Jewish Federation of San Diego, Jewish Federation of the Greater San Gabriel and Pomona Valleys, Jewish Federation of Ventura County, Jewish Silicon Valley, Northern California Jewish Labor Committee, Oakland Jewish Alliance, Palo Alto Jewish Alliance, San Francisco Jews in School, Northern California, stand with us, and Valley Beth Shalom, as well as a much longer list, which I will not take up the committee's time with. Urge your support. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Is there anyone here in opposition to SB 1387?

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning. Good morning. My name is Clyde Leland. I'm here on behalf of Jewish Voice for Peace.

Senator Weinersenator

You want to move the microphone a little bit closer so that it will pick up.

Senator Papinsenator

Yeah. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Okay. All right. All right.

Senator Papinsenator

I am here on behalf of Jewish Voice for Peace Bay Area to oppose this bill. Let me begin by saying that I very strongly identify as a Jewish person, but it is not my ethnicity. It's only part of who I am. I also identify as a baseball fan and a graduate of UC Berkeley, but an identity is not an ethnicity. Jews throughout the world, like UC alumni, are ethnically diverse. I also identify as a lawyer and law professor, and it is while wearing that hat that I see SB 1387 as unworkable and ineffectual. It is unworkable because the cultural markers, the ones you heard listed before that apply to Jews and supposedly identify us as an ethnic group, apply equally to almost every religion. all of those things that were listed about heritage and cultural identities apply to almost every religion indeed I would say they also apply to baseball fans But there are other characteristics that do apply to all the ethnic groups that are already listed under California law, characteristics that do not apply to us as Jews. A geographic providence is one. That doesn't apply to Jews who live throughout the world and are of many races. We hear the Prime Minister of Israel and some of the sponsors of this bill that I've spoken to say that Israel is the Jewish homeland, as if that were our geographic place of origin. Not only is that inaccurate, it ignores the reality that most American Jews now, especially young ones, want nothing to do with the discrimination and genocide that Israel is practicing. More important in terms of this designation as an ethnicity is what courts refer to as the immutability of an ethnic designation. That is, your ethnicity is something you're born with and can't change. You can change your religious identity, just as I guess I could wake up one day and find myself rooting for Stanford. As a lawyer, I also look at the goals and the effectiveness of this proposed law. If the goal is to ensure rights and protections for Jews, those are already guaranteed to us as a religion. This bill adds nothing to those protections, but does add millions to our state budget. And if the goal is to fight against anti-Semitism, treating laws differently, treating Jews differently under the law, actually breeds jealousy, which fosters anti-Semitism. Jewish Voice for Peace recognizes the growing threat of anti-Semitism, but we understand that the way to fight anti-Semitism is not to separate ourselves from the oppressed minorities and demand special treatment. Rather, it is to join with others to fight racism in all its forms. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning. Can you hear me?

Senator Weinersenator

Yes.

Senator Papinsenator

My name is Rabbi Kat Zavis, and I'm a rabbi of Beit Tukum, which has members throughout the state, and I'm here in opposition to Bill 1387. As a rabbi, I'm deeply concerned by legislation that claims to protect Jews while misunderstanding who Jews actually are and what Jews want and need. This bill erases the extraordinary diversity of the Jewish people. Jews are not a single ethnicity. Judaism is a religion. It is not an ethnicity. Our community includes people whose families come from Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Morocco, Syria, Palestine, and across North Africa and South Asia, alongside Jews whose families come from Europe and elsewhere. Many Middle Eastern and North African Jews have spent years working to have their distinct histories recognized. Their stories are not the same as those of Ashkenazi Jews. They have different experiences of displacement, discrimination, privilege, and identity. By collapsing all Jews into a single ethnic category, this bill makes those communities invisible. I am also troubled by the way this legislation exceptionalizes Jews at a moment when we desperately need solidarity and dialogue. Creating special protections that elevate Jews above other groups does not make us safer. It reinforces the very narratives of Jewish exceptionalism and undue power and influence that fuel anti and division and make the pursuit of peace more difficult Real safety comes from justice mutual recognition and shared dignity. Most disturbing of all is the legislative priority this bill represents. This bill is being pushed while Palestinians are being killed, displaced, starved, and tortured daily, yet there is no comparable urgency to address that suffering or the role of U.S. support in sustaining it. The millions that would be spent on this initiative would be better spent addressing the real needs of all Californians, Jewish and non-Jewish alike. This is a waste of money and time. In an age of increased government overreach into databases and with the Trump administration moving further towards fascism every single day, this is not the time to be making lists of Jews. As a rabbi, I believe our moral obligation is to stand with the vulnerable, confront actual harms, and build a future grounded in equality rather than exceptionalism. I urge you to reject this bill. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Is there anyone else here in opposition to SB 1387? Name, organization, if any, and your position on the bill, please.

Senator Papinsenator

Seth Morrison, Jewish Voice for Peace, and I oppose.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Larry Handel, Jewish Voice for Peace, also in opposition.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Morning, David Mandel, Jewish Voice for Peace, Sacramento Chapter. I consider myself a Jew ethnically, but there are many different ethnicities. This ill-considered bill, a very expensive bill, did not have any useful information for the state and would end up costing millions. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

All right. Any questions or comments from committee members? Assembly member Stephanie?

Thank you, Chair. I identify as an Italian Catholic, and I support this bill, and I want to thank the author for bringing it. and unfortunately that those that engaged in the most horrific acts of anti-Semitism that we have seen of late and the horrific increase in those acts of anti-Semitism do not care one bit about what ethnicity, whether or not you're any type of Orthodox or what type of Judaism you practice. They just care if you're Jewish. And I think this bill is absolutely necessary, given the horrific rise in anti-Semitism. And I think this bill can help state agencies identify disparities, monitor trends, and develop targeted responses to anti-Semitism. What is happening on the other side of the world should not ever be an excuse to harm Jewish people anywhere in the world. And what I've seen in the last two, two and a half, three years has been horrific. And I absolutely want to do everything in my power to protect all. And I think this bill works to do that. And I support it wholeheartedly and I look forward to voting for it.

Senator Weinersenator

Any other questions or comments? Thank you for presenting on behalf of Senator Stern. Would you like to close?

Senator Papinsenator

Yes. So, you know, I look at this bill and one of the reasons why I was so honored to be asked to present the bill is that I remember back and continue to think about the efforts that we've made in the LGBTQ plus community to expand data collection for the community. because data collection is something that is incredibly important to make sure that our government programs are serving a community, especially a community that's subject to discrimination, lack of hate, and actually lack of focus in terms of our programs. You know, all of the issues that were raised about that are being raised about this bill, about this being special treatment, exceptionalism, Those are the same things that people who opposed adding SOGI data to our LGBTQ data, they opposed those bills for the very, very same reasons. And the reality is what this is about is making sure that we're creating, you know, this is not about what's happening on the other side of the world. This is basically about understanding that the Jewish community is subject to extreme discrimination and hate, and it allows our government to basically collect data so that we can understand and better understand whether programs in the state of California are serving the community and whether or not the Jewish community is being targeted, not targeted in terms of government programs, programs and that kind of thing. Data collection is an incredibly important tool that we need to protect all underserved communities. That's why we collect demographic data for LGBTQ people and in many other areas. And of course, in this time, when the Jewish community is subject to so much discrimination and hate and targeting, it's why this is so important at this time. And the other thing I'll sort of point out is that this is supported by the broad mainstream organizations that represent the Jewish community. With every community, there's diversity and points of view. There were LGBTQ groups that were not part of the mainstream that opposed data collection for the same reason. Oh, we're creating lists. We're creating lists of LGBTQ people. Well, that's not what happens with these groups. These are all aggregated data that's presented that is preserved in an aggregated way. And so there's not going to be any risk of basically individuals being targeted because of these programs. So with that, I want to thank Senator Stern for bringing this bill. I ask you all to support this. It's a very important priority for the Jewish caucus. And with that, respectfully request an aye vote. Thank you. Can we respond to that?

Senator Weinersenator

No, sir. Sorry. We're done with presentation. I apologize. If you want to go ahead and take your seat, and we'll take quorum as you're walking back up, and then we're going to establish quorum as a secretary.

Senator Papinsenator

Caller.

Senator Weinersenator

Here.

Senator Papinsenator

Macedo, Barakahan, Brian, Connolly. Here.

Senator Weinersenator

Dixon.

Senator Papinsenator

Here.

Senator Weinersenator

Parabadian.

Senator Papinsenator

Pacheco.

Senator Weinersenator

Here.

Senator Papinsenator

Papin.

Senator Weinersenator

Here.

Senator Papinsenator

Sanchez.

Senator Weinersenator

Stephanie.

Senator Papinsenator

Here.

Senator Weinersenator

Zipper.

Senator Papinsenator

Here.

Senator Weinersenator

Senator Papin, are you ready to represent? Okay. Well, before we do that, why don't we get a motion on the consent calendar?

Senator Papinsenator

I'll move it.

Senator Weinersenator

All right, we're going to get a vote on that. Consent includes SB 927 Choi to appropriations, SB 994 Caballon to local government, SB 1100 Smallwood Quevas to public safety, SB 1189 Valadares, SB 1204 Ochoa Bo to appropriations, SB 1264 Valadares to appropriations, SB 1374 Nilo as amended to higher ed, and SB 1433. Kalra? Aye. Kalra, aye. Macedo, Barcahan, Brian, Connolly?

Senator Papinsenator

Aye.

Senator Weinersenator

Conley, aye. Dixon? Aye. Dixon, aye. Harabedian? Pacheco? Aye. Pacheco aye Papin Aye Papin aye Sanchez Stephanie Aye Stephanie aye Zabir Aye Zabir aye Pick Send calendars out Can we had a motion on item 1 SB 99 move move on okay All right Motions do pass to Public Safety Committee cholera. I call her I'm a Cito Barcahan Brian Connelly Connelly I Dixon Dixon I hair beading check oh check oh I happen I happen I Sanchez Stephanie Stephanie aye. Zabir? Aye. Zabir, aye. Okay, that bill is out. Item 6, SB 1237, Blake Spear.

Senator Papinsenator

I'll move it. Second.

Senator Weinersenator

Motions do pass to appropriations. Kalra? Aye. Kalra, aye. Macedo? Bauer-Cahan? Ryan? Connolly? Aye. Connolly, aye. Dixon? Dixon, no. Herbedian? Pacheco? Aye. Pacheco, aye. Papin? Aye. Papin, aye. Sanchez? Stephanie? Aye. Stephanie, aye. Zabir? Aye. Zabir, aye. Place that on call. Item 9, SB 1387 Stern.

Senator Papinsenator

Second.

Senator Weinersenator

Motions do pass to Privacy Committee. Kalra? Aye. Kalra, aye. Macedo? Bauer-Cahan? Ryan? Connolly? Aye. Connolly, aye. Dixon? Aye. Dixon, aye. Harabedian? Pacheco? Aye. Pacheco, aye. Pappin? Pappin? Pappin. Aye. Pappin, aye. Sanchez. Stephanie. Aye. Stephanie, aye. Zabir. Aye. Zabir, aye. That bill is out. And then we have now item three, SB 932, Senator Hurtado, presented by Senator Pappin. Thank you. Good morning, Chair and members.

Senator Papinsenator

I'm here on behalf of Senator Hurtado to present SB 932. This bill requires that an assignee, when they actually file an action, to identify the original party, at least in the caption on the first document filed in the civil proceeding. Under existing law, a person may assign certain legal claims to another person who then pursues them. When that occurs, the original party's name isn't always reflected in the case caption, which can make it difficult for interested parties reviewing court records to identify who originally held the claim. So this is really just a simple transparency bill. It doesn't affect the ability of somebody to assign whatever claim they might have. It just helps ensure that court records more accurately reflect the underlying parties connected to a case. Greater transparency benefits all parties who rely on public records to understand who was involved in the litigation. By making that information easier to locate, SB 932 promotes accountability while preserving longstanding assignment laws. So with us here to testify is Nariz Kalatian, who is a California attorney and a member of the Conference of California Bar Associations, who is the sponsor of the bill.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Kelly May Douglaswitness

Good morning. My name is Nariz Kalatian. Not bad. You know, I'm Greek. We're not that far apart. I figured my pronunciation. There you go. Got the I in for the Armenian. Good morning. I am a delegate to the Conference of California Bar Associations, the sponsor of this bill. I am an attorney with 36 years of experience on the ground, and I'm also an adjunct associate professor of law at Southwestern Law School in Los Angeles. I'm here not only as the spokesperson for the CCBA but as a witness who has seen firsthand how the assignment process can be misused in our court system As you know a plaintiff can sue based on their own rights or rights that have been transferred or assigned to them A person who doesn want to be named as a plaintiff in the complaint can assign that right to a friend or to a shell company and have them pursue that right. I have personally seen a bankruptcy debtor assign his rights to a Delaware shell entity, have that entity make a recovery anonymously without his creditors ever finding that out. These arrangements were never intended by law. Every year, millions of dollars change hands through the assignment process, and some of them by persons who are evading their financial responsibility towards their creditors, their victims. And these creditors can be small businesses or public agencies for that matter. Under this bill, the case caption becomes a portal of information for members of the public to see what cases our court system is hosting, for judges to see if there's a conflict of interest readily to recuse themselves, and for journalists who are the purveyors of our First Amendment rights. This is an accountability bill, and I respectfully ask for your aye vote. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Is there anyone else here in support of SB 932? Is there anyone here in opposition to SB 932? All right. Bring it back to committee questions, comments, motions.

Assembly Member Assembly Member Dixonassemblymember

Assembly members of Burr. So I want to thank the author for bringing this bill. I noted that there was some opposition from the Utility Wildfire Survivor Coalition in the record. And I'm going to be sorting the bill today. And, you know, and I look at some of those issues and I think some of the issues that the utility survivors raise are real issues. But, you know, they are it doesn't take away from the important parts of this bill. This bill is addressing some some important deficiencies that we currently have. That doesn't mean that there aren't other deficiencies that need to be addressed in another bill. That and I think the utility wildfire survivor coalition raises some other issues that deserve some examination and some merit. They are complicated. They're very complicated. I think what they've raised and so I understand why The author may not have wanted to sort of expand this bill at this point because I think at this point in the Legislative cycle it would be difficult to address those broad range of issues So I just wanted to sort of acknowledge that there are some other issues out there That moving forward on this bill doesn't mean that we're rejecting those I think I think they do merit some some examination. I recognize that they're complicated, but it doesn't take away from the fact that this bill I think is important and good and in a narrow way achieves an important goal. So with that I'll be supporting the bill today. No motion? Okay. So a second? And a second. Any other questions or comments?

Senator Weinersenator

Well, thank you assembly member for presenting on behalf of Senator Taddo.

Senator Papinsenator

Would you like to close? Just for a second question, I vote on a reasonably

Senator Weinersenator

tailored transparency bill. Thank you. Motions do pass. Kalra? Aye. Kalra, aye. Macedo? Barra-Cahan? Brian? Connolly? Aye. Connolly, aye. Dixon? Aye. Dixon, aye. Harabedian? Pacheco? Pappin? Aye. Pappin, aye. Sanchez? Stephanie? Zabur? Aye. Zabur, aye. We'll place that bill on call. We have item 5, SB 988, Senator Grayson. Okay Good morning Chair Good morning. Waiting for my witness.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning. Good morning. Esteemed Chair and members of the committee, good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to present SB 988, which will provide a series of reforms to the auto glass industry governing insurance assignments, repair disclosures, billing practices and claims solicitation. Auto glass claims are among the most common comprehensive auto insurance claims, with California accounting for more than two million claims between 2015 and 2019. Modern vehicle glass now has advanced technologies and components that require specialized installation and precise calibration, making repairs even more complex and more costly. As the industry has grown, some repair shops have used marketing tactics and assignment of benefits, which we refer to as AOB, arrangements that allow shops to bill insurance directly with limited consumer oversight. This can lead to inflated claims, overbilling, improper calibrations, reduced consumer choice, and increased safety risk. Disputed or excessive claims can also increase litigation and contribute to higher insurance premiums. So SB 988 addresses these concerns by restricting the assignment of policy benefits to repair shops and requiring upfront estimates and itemized invoices that reflect reasonable charges, improving transparency, accountability and consumer safety. With that, I would like to introduce through the chair, my witness today, Marion Smith, Director of Office of Strategy, Policy and Government Affairs for the National Insurance Crime Bureau. Thank you.

Veronica Badillowitness

Good morning, Chair Kalra and members of the committee. As stated, my name is Marion Smith. I'm the Director of Strategy, Policy, and Government Affairs at the National Insurance Crime Bureau, known as NICB. For over a century, NICB has served as a nation's leading not-for-profit organization dedicated exclusively to fighting insurance fraud and related crime. NICB expresses our strong support for Senate Bill 988. This legislation is a significant step forward in consumer protection and fighting fraud. Between 2023 and 2025, over a two-year span, the number of questionable claims NICB received in California relating to Autoglass increased by nearly 60%. NICB supports 988 for three main reasons. The first being that it establishes clear conditions that must be met before a repair shop may contract for insurance-paid work. This protects the consumers and insurance alike from inflated claims, unauthorized work, and billing for services that were not performed to manufacturer specifications. For example, NICB has seen charges for the recalibration of advanced driver assistance systems, but without performing the work. Number two, this bill prohibits the assignment or transfer of an insured's policy rights and benefits to a third party. NICB has seen unscrupulous repair shops abuse this process. This tactic removes the policyholder from the claims process, puts the repair shop in the driver's seat, and leads to misaligned incentives to inflated billing. And third, it prohibits repair shops from offering rebates, gifts, gift cards, cash coupons, or other inducements to consumers. Glass shops should be confident in their ability to earn consumer trust through quality of service, not through coercive or misleading practices. NICB is proud to support this pro-consumer, anti-fraud legislation and respectfully ask

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Is there anyone else here in support of SB 988?

Senator Papinsenator

Hi, I'm Jacques Navant, president of the Auto Glass Safety Council. Just for clarity, I'm in support, but I recommend two amendments.

Senator Weinersenator

Go ahead. Let's hear this out.

Senator Papinsenator

So the Auto Glass Safety Council supports consumer protection, ADS calibration, documentation, and anti-fraud provisions in SB 988, as well as the NCOIL model legislation. However, certain provisions create anti-competitive barriers that disadvantage independent glass businesses without improving safety. ADSC seeks targeted amendments that preserve safety protections while protecting consumer choice and fair competition. Um, consumers should have the right to choose their out of glass repair provider.

Senator Weinersenator

Current language allows insurers and third party administrators to recommend specific shops while simultaneously controlling the claim process. In practice, these recommendations can function as steering undermining true consumer choice. The more sticky we make this process, the longer these vehicles are going to be out on the road, unsafe, waiting for a repair shop for claim numbers and such. This bill prohibits a shop from contracting with the customer before obtaining a claim number or referral number. Independent shops report claim numbers are not always provided promptly. Finally, delays can prevent local businesses from serving customers quickly while larger vertically integrated competitors gain an advantage. This requirement does not improve safety, calibration quality, or consumer protection. AGSC strongly supports any fraud and disclosure requirements. However, transparency should apply equally to all participants. ensures TPAs, affiliated glass companies should disclose business relationships and financial arrangements that may influence referrals or recommendations. And I brought copies of our requested amendments. In the analysis, it also lists out the requested amendments as well. So your opposition is well documented in the analysis and in the record. Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. Louis Brown here today on behalf of Safe Light Auto Glass in support of the bill. Thank you. All right. We'll bring it back to committee for any questions, comments, or emotions. Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. I think that the other gentleman was supporting, but listed all these things to do. So I got tripped up. Yeah, go ahead. Good morning, and thank you for allowing me to be here today. My name is Gary Hart. I'm the Director of the Independent Glass Association, and we're here to oppose and ask for amendments. I know we're fully on record since the beginning of this. Independent auto glass shops support consumer protection. We support transparency. We support safe windshield installation and proper ADAS calibration. That's not the issue here with this bill. The issue is that SB 988, as drafted does not fully account for how auto glass claims actually work in the real world. If SB 988 is not amended, it can be used to limit consumer choice, restrict post-loss payment authorization, create claim number gatekeeping, and give more leverage to insurers, TPAs, networks, and affiliated repair interest The committee is simply not deciding on whether the bill sounds like consumer protection It deciding whether the civil code language is clear balanced and enforceable and fair As drafted SB 988 does not meet that standard. We respectfully ask the committee, as we've had, to hold the bill as it advances or make the amendments. And then we just have some other opposition will state their name. Thank you very much. Thank you. Good morning, members of the committee. My name is I'm owner of Autoglass Express in Berkeley. I'm here to respectfully oppose SB 988 unless significantly amended. As an independent Autoglass shop, we support consumer protection, transparency, safety, and proper ADAS calibration, and stopping real fraud whenever it exists. But SB 988 is not balanced. It places new restrictions on independent glass shops while failing to address the conduct of insurers, third-party administrators, and insurer-aligned networks that already control much of the glass claims process. This concern is especially important when a company such as SafeLight can be involved in the glass administration while also competing directly for the same repair work. That conflict should make this committee cautious about passing legislation that gives the claim control side even more power. There are four major problems that must be amended. First, the claim number bottleneck. Requiring a claim or referral number before a shop can fully contract with a customer pushes the consumer into the insurer or TPA-controlled claim system before the independent glass shop can fully assist them. Second, the bill restricts post-loss assignment of benefits, which is one of the few tools consumers and shops have to resolve short pays, denied supplements, denied payments, and claim disputes. Third, while the bill says consumers have a right to choose, it does not create strong enough protections against steering at this first notice of loss, which is when consumers are most often redirected to preferred networks. Fourth, the bill includes broad language on inducements and marketing that could punish ordinary small businesses such as ours with practices like discounts, rebates, promotions, and competitive advertising. The ADAS and recalibration disclosure portion may serve a legitimate safety purpose, but that narrow issue should not be used to pass a much broader bill that gives insurers, TPAs, networks, and insurer-aligned companies more control over independent glass drops and California consumers. And I would just ask if any of you have ever had experience having to replace your windshield through insurance, you know that the claims process is handled by SafeLite. You think you're calling your insurance, but you're actually speaking to SafeLite. They will read you a line that says that you have a right to choose your shop, but you don't actually. And we sign up for it. Thank you. All right. So those are two opposition witnesses. everybody else's name and your position please thank you good morning my name is Kyle Stiller I'm representing apex auto glass intending in Santa Maria I oppose this bill we oppose this bill unless amended further thank you thank you Tim Clute from New View Auto Glass Riverside California in opposition thank you all right we'll bring it back to the committee for any questions comments or motions? We have a motion. Is there a second? Okay. And a second. Assembly members of Burt. I want to thank the author for bringing the bill and obviously understand that the goals are laudable. I was wondering if you could just respond to the request for the amendments and sort of what the status of that is and what the issues might be related to addressing the amendments that they've requested. Absolutely. I believe all sides have expressed the desire for consumer protection And some of the issues that are being brought up are already constituted in law such as anti Steering is not lawful and this bill does not undo that whatsoever I think there needs to also be a delineation between SafeLite Solutions versus SafeLite Autoglass Those are two separate companies. Your insurance companies, multiple insurance companies work with SafeLite Solutions because they're a management, an information claims management company. And so in this particular case, this is not a bill to pick winners or losers within the repair industry. This bill is 100% solely focused on consumer protections, transparency, accountability, and making sure that the customer has knowledge of what's being charged and what is being repaired on the automobile. I think it's also important to note that the consumer doesn't find him or herself in a situation where the auto repair shop is suing their insurance company and them have no knowledge of it. And so that has a lot to do with consumer protection and why this is in here to simply put another barrier up against any potential fraud. There's a lot of great actors out there, a lot of great repair shops. But there, as we know, in any industry, there are those that don't play well in the sandbox. And this is what this bill does is provide transparency and accountability. And by the way, we are always open. Our door is always open to conversations about amendments. We've read them as far as in conversational form, but would definitely look forward to any kind of an RN or language that would be a bit more suitable. I haven't dug deep on this bill, but obviously, you know, I think we all have an interest in making sure that, you know, that the independent and the smaller businesses have an ability to continue to compete effectively. And so I would just ask that you continue working with the opposition on some of the concerns that they're raising and seeing if we can sort of narrow that gap. And Assemblymember, being a small business owner, I wholeheartedly agree. And with that, I'll be supporting the bill today. Thank you. Thank you. Assemblymember Dixon. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am supporting the bill, and I appreciate your comments in terms of addressing those needs. Mainly a question of curiosity. I'm not familiar. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not familiar with the consumer code on auto repair. Are there different provisions for insurance coverage for every part of the automobile? I mean, if the steering wheel goes out or the lights go out or the automatic computer system goes out, Do we need to address every part of the automobile and the repair process and ensure that the consumers are being protected? I don't think it needs to go to that extent. And the reason why is because there are different types of insurance. As you've seen on television, the different types of insurance that you can buy for bumper to bumper, extended insurance warranties. There's a big difference between that versus a rock hitting a windshield, and the windshield alone needs to be replaced. As a matter of fact, if you go to your auto policy, you'll see that there are special provisions just for window replacement and window damage. And it's why now? I mean, what's happened in the industry or in the small company industry? Why is this coming to to us today? So a great question. I think this is a great place for my witness to be able to speak in as well. But for the past 15 and a half months, NCOIL has the National Council of State Legislators. NCOIL has been working very hard nationally on this very issue. And they came up with model legislation that now eight states have already adopted three this year alone Through the chair Thank you Mr Chairman Assemblywoman Dixon Yes, it has taken some time with any legislation, as you all are aware. It has taken a few years for, again, this model legislation. Our last stats, NICB's great at keeping stats. Back in roughly 2023, before the NCOIL bill came out, California was ranked third in the nation for claims, questionable claims regarding auto glass. Florida was first, and Florida was one of the first to pass these bills. So unfortunately, I believe your state of California probably ranks second as far as questionable claims when it comes to auto glass. And so it's a growing concern. It increases, fraud increases premiums. We all pay for it. It's not a victimless crime. And anything that we can do to ensure that our rates can stay as low as possible, let's go after the bad actors. And this bill does that. I appreciate this. And little did we know that you're here to protect everyone with a broken windshield. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Sumeru Pappin. Just very quickly. You know, I think when it comes to auto glass, it's one of the few areas in insurance where liability is not really an issue. Right. So the carrier must reimburse. And I appreciate the idea that, OK, liability is established. And how do we make it that we're paying just what needs to be done to rectify the situation? And everybody has different deductibles. I recognize that. So we're all in this together. So I appreciate the bill and I will be supporting it today. and if we haven't moved, I will make a motion for you. We do have a motion. Any other questions or comments? Thank you, Senator, for bringing this forward. And as you indicated in response to one of the questions that anti-steering is already in law, I don't know if there's language that can further reiterate that in the legislation just to make it extra clarify, so to speak, because we want to make sure that these consumer protections don't in any way eviscerate that foundational aspect of the law, which it does not. And I think that to whatever extent that could be made clear to folks, you know, driving back and forth to Sacramento on 80. I've had to replace a couple of windshields over the last several years. And I do go to small shops, especially because of the ADAS now. I think that the calibration, it's a whole other aspect of the work as opposed to simply just replacing a windshield. And the technicians are incredibly competent. And I don't see with these protections why I would stop going to my local glass shop that I've now become too friendly with over the years. But I appreciate you, you know, continuing to look at some of the opposition concerns. And I do think that there needs to be some legislation in terms of reining some of the AOB abuse as well. And ultimately, I think, as you referenced, this is kind of a national movement in terms of the new environment we're in as it comes to the technology that's involved with our vehicles in terms of modernizing our laws and making them consistent with other states. And hopefully enough states do it and get a federal government. standard that will be consistent with that as well. But, you know, we don't, we don't wait for federal consumer protection in California. We move forward where we see fit. So, would you like to close? I hear your comments and they are noted and respectfully ask for an vote. Thank you. Motions do pass to appropriations. Calra. Aye. Calra. Aye. Macedo. Aye. Macedo. Aye. Bauer-Cahan? Aye. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Brian? Connolly? Aye. Connolly, aye. Dixon? Aye. Dixon, aye. Harabedian? Pacheco? Papin? Aye. Papin, aye. Sanchez? Stephanie? Zuber? Aye. Zuber, aye. All right. That bill is out. Thank you. Thank you. We have two bills of Senator Wiener, one bill of Senator De Rosso. It's up to you two. All right. I defer to next in line. Out of graciousness, allowing Senator DeRosa to go. You can go ahead and go with item 7, SB 1296. Chivalry lives. Yes. And patience pays off. Thank you, Mr. Chair and members. I want to dedicate this presentation to Vanessa, who is a renter in Santa Cruz County, and Desmond and Penny, her pet cats. SB 1296 ensures prospective tenants with pets can access clear pet policy information early in their housing search process. Specifically, this bill requires the disclosure of existing pet policies on application materials and rental listings. If failure to disclose a pet policy materially affected the prospective tenant's decision to apply for a unit that does not accept their pet, a refund shall be made within five business days after written notice is provided from the applicant about the failure. The bill does not dictate whether a landlord must allow pets, restrict the types of pet policies a landlord may adopt, or limit pet-related fees. It simply requires housing providers to share their existing pet policy or no pet policy with prospective applicants before collecting an application fee. Pet owners need upfront pet policy disclosures. Too often, tenants search through unclear listings and contact rental properties multiple times with questions related to pet policies. Many don't find out the details of pet policies until after they have toured the units, filled out rental applications, and paid application fees. Even if tenants ask, some landlords withhold that information until the very end of that process. Renters have to choose between securing a stable home without their pets or continuing a costly, time-consuming search for housing that accepts their entire family. 77% of my constituents are renters. In a state with 17 million renters and with such a large share of these renters owning pets, pet policies are a highly relevant part of the housing search process. To ensure people with pets find stable housing during our housing crisis supporting pet owners during their rental search process is an urgent priority With us today we have Jennifer Naitake from the Michelson Center for Public Policy and Vanessa Sempervira a pet owner and California resident Thank you Wonderful Chair and members, thank you. My name is Jennifer Naitake, excellent pronunciation, and I'm here on behalf of the Michelson Center for Public Policy in support of SB 1296. I want to begin with the facts. SB 1296 does not require landlords to allow pets. It does not prohibit pet restrictions, cap pet fees, or change a landlord's existing pet policy. It does one narrow thing. It requires the policy to be disclosed before an applicant pays an application fee. Landlords are accustomed to disclosing lease terms, fees, screening criteria, and other property rules. SB 1296 simply applies that same common sense transparency to pet policies. As a small landlord myself, I understand the need for flexibility and workable processes. SB 1296 preserves both. Landlords keep full authority to allow, restrict, or prohibit pets. And applicants simply get the rules up front, which is important because our California survey found that 51% of renters paid an application fee before fully understanding the PEP policy. 72% experienced negative outcomes because the information was unclear or incomplete, and 96% support upfront disclosure before someone chooses to apply. This is an affordability issue, a transparency issue, and a preventable source of conflict. Clear written policies protect both sides, especially small landlords. We have worked closely with the housing associations and accepted several good faith amendments, including protections for landlords, limits related to third-party platforms, and language, preserving a landlord's authority to adopt, amend, interpret, and enforce their pet policies consistent with the law. SB 1296 is a practical transparency bill that supports renters, respects landlords, and reduces avoidable disputes. We respectfully ask for your aye vote. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, Chair and members of the committee. Good morning and thank you. My name is Vanessa Sempervirens, and I live in Santa Cruz County. I'm here today as a constituent, as someone who has been a renter for 17 years in San Francisco and five years in Santa Cruz County, and as a pet owner with two cats. For the last 15 years, I've balanced a demanding career as a nurse with Kaiser, responsibilities within my community, and the pressure of finding safe and stable housing when searching for housing. Time matters. Money matters, and clarity matters. I understand that landlords need clear rules, and I understand that tenants need to follow them. But I also understand how difficult it can be for responsible pet owners to make good decisions when most important information is not available up front. The rental market in each of these counties is extremely competitive. And in many cases, I would submit applications, pay multiple application fees before even seeing an apartment, let alone confirming whether the property had a workable pet policy. This creates a costly and stressful process for renters with pets who may spend significantly more money up front without knowing whether their animal will ultimately be accepted. I was fortunate to find a place that I stayed in for 11 years until my job took me to another county. But the process was much harder than it needed to be. That transparency would have helped me. SB 1296 would not require landlords to change their pet policies. It would simply ensure the applicants know the policy before they pay to apply. It would help runners make better decisions, and it would help landlords receive applications from people who already understand the rules. It's transparency like this that allows for mutually beneficial relationships to flourish. I respectfully ask for your aye vote Thank you Thank you Is there anyone else here in support of SB 1296 Good morning Lizzie Guansona here on behalf of Cal Animals and Humane World for Animals in support Thank you Thank you. Good morning, Chair and members. Karen Stout here on behalf of the Animal Legal Defense Fund, California IMB, and Para-California Action, all in support. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone here in opposition to SB 1296? Thank you. Lawyers, they take a look at it, and they said, we like the bill, except for clause I, which says a tenant's failure to sign a pet addendum shall not form the basis of any unlawful detainer action against the tenant. So we're going to jump through all these hoops. We agree to jump through all these hoops. She's taking these amendments, and then all of a sudden we're going to let the tenant off the hook by not requiring them to sign the pet addendum. So if we have a current tenant who doesn't have a pet and they bring an unauthorized pet onto the property, they don't have to sign the pet addendum. There are no consequences for not signing. So we can't issue them a performer quit for not signing it. So the performer quit we will send them is to either get rid of the pet or vacate the premises. Um, and they'll do that because the pet addendum lays out the rules that they have to follow to have a pet on the property. Vaccination requirements, off leash, clean up after your pet, um, et cetera. So that's our concern. Um, I'm not sure if they're willing to take that out or not. Um, understand probably this bill is going to, to pass, but I just want to, you know, uh, put you on notice that that's the likely consequence. if somebody brings an unauthorized pet onto the property and refuses to sign the addendum. And why we would encourage that, I don't know. I'm sure someone's going to, at some point, is going to refuse to sign it, and they're going to say, well, you can't evict me. And then they're going to get a three-day performer quit to either get rid of the pet or vacate. So that's our concern. We're okay with the rest of the bill. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Anyone else here in opposition to SB 1296? All right. I suddenly remember Bauer can. She's like really excited to ask a question. That makes me hate lawyers since I am one. But I think that argument falls slightly flat because to your point, which you made, they could evict under breach of contract for bringing an unauthorized pet. So then you would go to your tenant and say, if you don't say this addendum, you're in breach of contract. You're going to have to be evicted. And they would then sign the addendum. So all they're saying is you can't evict solely on the grounds that they didn't sign the addendum. You would evict based on the breach of contract. And so I think that that's reasonable. And so I don't know that a change is necessary. I think your lawyers want it because lawyers are neurotic and risk averse but which I consider myself to be all of those things Um but I mean I think the bill is great I think um you know I think it fair to say before you spend money on a fee you need to know the rules And if you don give the money back And I know you agree with that We don't have a problem with that. No, I understand that. So I think this nuance that's here feels minor and not even meaningful in the real world. So happy to support it today. Obviously, if you want to work on this, you can, but I don't know that it really, in reality, will make a distinction for how this is handled between a tenant and a landlord, which in 90% of cases have a good relationship, are able to navigate these things, and in the other cases would be protected from that being the sole reason for their unlawful detainer. So with that, happy to move the bill. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? Assemblymember Dixon? Well, I am a dog owner, but I'm not a renter, and so I'd love to have my dog, wear a dog's pearl, wherever I go. Actually, to follow up on these comments, when I hear the word eviction, and I have no rental property, I don't have a dog in this fight. Oh, boo. No, for the damn thing. However, just to hear the words three-day eviction, legal process, lawyers, delays, how do we avoid all that? I agree with the landlords who feel that if someone does not disclose their pet or they acquire a pet after they've signed the lease just to disclose it, I just would like to avoid some kind of litigation, eviction procedure that takes months and months and months and nobody likes that. How can we work together to solve that little problem? Thank you, Assemblymember. And we wanted to make this as simple as possible. As you know, sometimes things come up that you can't foresee. But we are more than willing, and we've had some conversation about the issue raised by the opposition. So we're prepared to pursue that because we don't want this to become more than just disclosure. Great. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Well, Senator, thank you for bringing this bill forward. Would you like to close? With respect, Blas, we aye vote and make Desmond and Penny happy. Thank you. Motion is due pass. Kalra? Aye. Kalra, aye. Macedo? Aye. Macedo, aye. Bauer-Cahan? Bauer-Cahan, aye. Bryan? Connolly? Aye. Connolly, aye. Dixon? Aye. Harabedian? Aye. Harabedian, aye. Pacheco? Not voting. Pappin. Aye. Pappin, aye. Sanchez. Aye. Sanchez, aye. Stephanie. Zabir. Aye. Zabir, aye. All right. That bill is out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, members and Mr. Chair. Item two. We have SB 747. Senator Weiner. No. She took a minute. All right, we have item 2, SB 747. Senator Wiener, whenever you're ready. All right, great. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and colleagues. I'm here today to present Senate Bill 747, the No Kings Act, a very straightforward bill to ensure that when a public agent or officer at any level of government, federal, state, or local, violates your constitutional rights, you should be able to hold them accountable. It's called the rule of law, and it should apply at all levels of government, not just state and local. It should apply to all of our public officials. If you are a public official, police officer, agent, whatever kind of official, you take an oath to uphold the Constitution and you violate someone's constitutional rights, you should be accountable. Unfortunately, right now, that is not the case because federal civil rights laws hold state and local officers accountable, but not federal. And while the U.S. Supreme Court for about 50 years implied a clause of action to sue a federal agent for violating your constitutional rights, the so-called Bivens Doctrine, four years ago, the Supreme Court gutted that doctrine. So when we look at what's happening in the country today, when we have ICE agents, Border Patrol agents basically running around, brutalizing people, grabbing people without any legal basis, holding them, straight up violating their rights, shooting a mother in the face, executing an ICU nurse on the streets, grabbing in my district in San Francisco just a couple weeks ago, a man by the name of Marvin Godoy Calderon, who has a work permit, is a dishwasher in the city, and a janitor, one of the people who makes San Francisco operate and run, was grabbed right in front of his home by ICE and given a head injury and a knee injury and held, and ultimately a federal judge ordered him released under a writ of habeas corpus because his arrest was completely illegal and in violation of the law. And he and others like him should have the ability to hold those agents accountable, just like you would be able to hold a local police officer accountable if an officer did that. That's normal law. If a police officer brutalizes you, illegally arrests you, holds you, you can sue them. It's been that way since the 19th century in this country. And yet federal agents somehow get a loophole exemption from that. So if we're serious about the rule of law, as we should be, then we should hold all officers, agents, officials accountable for violating people's constitutional rights. And so the Senate Bill 747 will do that by importing the existing federal standards for liability. It's actually narrower because it only applies to a violation of the U.S. Constitution, not federal statutes, that if you violate someone's federal constitutional rights, you will be able to sue them the same that you can right now under Section 1983, under the federal civil rights statutes for state and local officers. It imports all the same standards, all the same defenses, immunities. It's all there. And so this is a law that we as time has come we should have done this a long time ago Other states are doing this as well If Congress won impose accountability on its employees then California should. And I respectfully ask for an aye vote. With me to testify is Javier Ramirez, citizen of the United States and resident of California, father of three, who was unlawfully detained by ICE for five days. and Cameron Kistler, Counselor to Protect Democracy United, which is a sponsor of the bill. Thank you. Good morning, members. Thank you for having me here and listening to me. My name is Javier Ramirez. I was born in San Bernardino, California. I'm a proud U.S. citizen and a father of three wonderful children. I'm here today to share my experience that changed my life. Almost a year ago, in June 12, 2025, about 4.32 p.m., Border Patrols came into my property in Montobello, California. They were armed, they were masked, and carrying heavy rifles. I have never experienced anything like that before in my life. I was really scared. They spoke to me in Spanish, and they were asking me, where was I going? Which I answered in Spanish, voy para fuera, meaning that I'm going outside. I didn't want any problems. I didn't want to, I just wanted to continue on my way. I heard someone just yelled, one of the agents, get him. He's Mexican. That's when they forced me down to the ground. They held me and put their knee onto my head. I was confused. I was just afraid for my life. I kept wondering what I did wrong. I told them I was a U.S. citizen. I was born here, but they ignored me. When I asked why was I being arrested, the only answer that I received was, we don't know. We're trying to figure it out. I'm diabetic, and I began to feel sick. I asked for medical help, but my request was ignored. Even while handcuffed, I was thrown to the ground again and felt helpless and humiliated. Later, I was transferred to HSI around 8 p.m., and that's when they ran me my rights, and I spent five days in prison. As an American citizen, I never thought I would be treated this way. No one should have to be feared being targeted based on their appearance, ethnicity, or their language they speak. Since this happened, I have lived in anxiety and fear that it could happen again not only to me, but to my children or my loved ones. The place where I once felt safe is no longer the same. I am sharing my story because I believe no one should be treated unjustly and that no one is above the law and every action will be held accountable. I respectfully ask for your support for SB 747. Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Thank you for sharing your story, Mr. Ramirez. Thank you, Senator Weiner, Chair and members. My name is Cameron Kistler. I'm from Protect Democracy United. We're a proud co-sponsor of SB 747. I'm here to urge you to support the bill and join New York, Connecticut, and Vermont in passing a bill like this. This bill stands for a simple proposition. If any governmental officer violates your clearly established constitutional rights, you should have a remedy. That is already the law for California state and local officials. If they violate clearly established constitutional rights, they can be sued under Federal Section 1983. But there is no similar law for federal officials This bill solves that problem by allowing Californians to sue every governmental officer federal state or local that violates their constitutional rights It directly borrows its operative language and immunities from Section 1983, so any constitutional violations that a state or local officer can be sued for under the bill should already be actionable under existing federal law. This isn't a stunt. For most of American history, from the founding to the 1970s, common law tort suits were the primary way federal officers were held accountable for abuses of power. The Supreme Court blessed that process in cases like United States against Lee and Teal against Felton. That historical practice is why former U.S. Lister General Seth Waxman has observed their notable historical precedence for statutes like the bill. I don't think you need to look farther than the killings of Renee Good and Alex Preddy in Minnesota to realize why this bill is necessary. I know there's still a dispute about what exactly happened, but one thing should already be absolutely clear. Whether Ms. Good and Mr. Preddy's families should have a remedy for their killings should turn on whether or not their constitutional rights were violated, not what badge the officers were carrying when they shot them. Thank you so much for your time and

Senator Weinersenator

consideration. Thank you. Is there anyone else here in support of SB 747?

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning, Chair and members. Karen Stout here on behalf of the U.N.D.O.S. in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Morning, Committee. Hector Pereira on behalf of Inland Coalition for Immigrant Justice, proud co-sponsor of SB 747 in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Thank you, Chair and members. Punit Ghor on behalf of the SIC Coalition, the nation's largest SIC civil rights organization, in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning, Shane Dussman on behalf of the Prosecutors' Alliance in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning. Carol Gonzalez on behalf of Inclusive Action for the City in support and on behalf of our partners at the Central American Resource Center, Gatessen in support. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning. Megan Varvey on behalf of Kaiser Advocacy or on behalf of the Electronic Frontier Foundation in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning. Savannah Jorgensen with the League of Women Voters of California in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Jack Wurston on behalf of the County of Monterey in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning, Eric Paredes with the California Faculty Association in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning, Buenos Dias. My name is Vanessa Valdez. I'm here on behalf of Libre805 and the Latinx Bar Association from Ventura County in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Thank you.

Senator Papinsenator

Good morning, Maria Garcia on behalf of the Carrillo Law Firm in support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Witnesses in opposition to SB 747? All right.

Senator Papinsenator

Morning, Chair and members. Jonathan Feldman with the California Police Chiefs Association in opposition to the bill. I want to start by saying CPCA supports accountability for constitutional violations. We always have. We do not defend bad officers, and we're not here defending the actions of federal officers. To the witness, you have my empathy for what you went through. Our concern is not with accountability. Our concern is with creating a brand-new California cause of action that introduces significant legal uncertainty. Proponents have repeatedly stated that SB 747 is intended to mirror existing federal section 1983 liability and preserve qualified immunity as it exists today. If that truly is the intent, the bill should expressly say so, and that is the nature of our opposition and the amendments that we put forward. The central question we have is who's going to define quality immunity moving forward? Today decades of federal precedent provide a very well framework SB 747 however creates a new California cause of action that places the term qualified immunity into state law for the first time ever It is not in statute. It is case law derived. Putting it into California state law for the first time opens the door to move away from decades of precedent. I think we all have realized that we're in a new era where judicial precedence doesn't mean what it exactly meant maybe years ago. and we have very limited faith that the statute is going to remain the same and not lead to significant changes. And a legal term that has such resounding impact, even a small tweak to the definition of qualified immunity, has significant impacts to all of our public employees, not just law enforcement. Towards this issue, we have offered amendments that would stipulate that nothing in this section shall be construed to, quote, alter, limit, expand, or abrogate the doctrine of qualified immunity as recognized under federal law today. Again, if this is truly the intent of this bill, preserving the existing federal standards should not be objectionable. Unfortunately, those amendments have not been accepted and our concerns have not been addressed. The bill also creates significant litigation exposure, combining a new cause of action with attorney's fees and additional costs, which are exacerbated by the bill's retroactive application, which allows a second bite at the apple in cases that have already been adjudicated, raising fundamental fairness concerns for public employees and local governments. Again, we have proposed narrow targeted amendments that will provide certainty. We're willing to continue to work with the author and the sponsors towards addressing our concerns. We also feel that the retroactivity piece should be expressly excluded in cases that have already been adjudicated. We appreciate the meetings that we've had thus far and the amendments that have been taken to address other concerns. However, our main concerns remain. We are adamantly opposed to the bill in print today. I ask for your no vote. Thank you. David Mustagney on behalf of PORAC. And just to briefly follow up on my colleagues' concerns, with respect to qualified immunity, the concerns that both our clients have is that we don't have a watered-down dual definition of qualified immunity. If you look at the wording of the statute, we view it as poorly drafted and we have offered amendments. It says that a defendant may assert qualified immunity. It doesn't have language that clearly indicates that qualified immunity will be tethered to federal standards and subject to the federal law. That's the amendments that we've put forward and that we ask for so that, again, everybody knows what the law is and that there's not a California standard of qualified immunity as well as a federal standard.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else here in opposition to SB 747?

Senator Papinsenator

Mr. Chair members Matthew cyberling on behalf of the Association for Los Angeles deputy sheriffs in the California Peace Officers Association both opposed. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Chair. Member Shane Levine on behalf of the Fraternal Order of Police in the California Statewide Law Enforcement Association in opposition. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair, Julian DeVores on behalf of the League of California Cities in respectful opposition. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair, Ryan Sherman with the California Narcotic Officers Association and the Riverside Sheriff Association and the other law enforcement associations listed in the analysis, all in opposition. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Bring it back to committee. Assemblymember Pacheco.

Senator Papinsenator

Thank you. Thank you. And thank you to the author for bringing this bill forward. And also thank you for your witness for testifying. Thank you for being here in Sacramento. I know it's a long ways from Montebello. I'm in Downey, so I'm not too far from Montebello. So I want to thank you for being here and for sharing your story, because it's horrible to see what's happening in our communities by immigration law enforcement. Federal agencies are coming into our neighborhoods, and they're terrorizing our neighborhoods. We've seen that in Downey, in Montebello, in Pico Rivera. We've seen it throughout Los Angeles County, and these officers need to be held accountable, and that's why this bill is important. But I also understand the concerns of opposition. So I am supporting the bill today, of course, but I would like to see further conversations because I think we can perfect this bill even further.

Senator Weinersenator

And I'll let you also make a comment.

Senator Papinsenator

But I believe that we can perfect this bill. There's amendments that were offered, and I know maybe not all amendments can be taken, but I think maybe some of them to perfect it would be better, especially since our local state officers do not support what's happening in our communities because what's happening is our residents now feel a distrust towards law enforcement because of what federal officers are doing. And that's not right. People should feel safe when going to their local police departments and they should feel safe when talking to their officers and they should not be terrorized. My dad speaks broken English and it's hard for him to go outside. and I just always worry about him. But it's not our local law enforcement that are doing this. It's these federal officers. So we need to go after them.

Senator Morningsenator

I agree.

Senator Papinsenator

But if there's a way to perfect this bill, that would be amazing. And I think there is a pathway. And so, again, I am supporting the bill today, and I reserve my vote for when we get on the floor. But I know we can get to a good place. So if you want to make comments, I'll let you go ahead. Yeah.

Senator Morningsenator

No, I appreciate that. Assemblymember Nye, you really, I think, very nicely articulated the problem that we're facing, that this is, and I've talked to a lot of local law enforcement, including ones who don't like this bill or didn't like the masking law that we passed, because what AIS and Border Patrol is doing is harming local law enforcement. It's sweeping everyone in. And when you have these folks who are wearing these masks, not identifying themselves, or they just have police on there, so they're almost like impersonating local police officers. It creates a horrible situation for local law enforcement, and as you noted, destroys community trust in actual local law enforcement. And it's just horrific. We've been in ongoing conversations. I appreciate Mr. Feldman noting that we have taken amendments. I think some of the issues they've raised, I'm hopeful that there is a path. Some of them are more challenging, but we're going to continue those conversations, and we're committed to those conversations.

Senator Weinersenator

Assemblymember Zabur?

Senator Papinsenator

I just want to align my comments with those of Assemblymember Pacheco, and we'll be supporting the bill today and appreciate the commitment to continue working with the opposition.

Senator Weinersenator

Assemblymember Bauer-Cahan?

Senator Papinsenator

Thank you. And I want to reiterate what my colleague from Downey said to you, Mr. Ramirez. Thank you for being here. it is painful, frankly, as Americans to watch what is happening in our state, in our country. And I'm sorry that we can't do more and we're trying. And I want to thank the Senator for trying because you're right. Nobody should be above the law. And I appreciate the opposition for I think acknowledging that So yeah just thank you for being here It really powerful So I wanted to get a little bit at the amendment Mr Feldman read which was about the qualifying immunity question My guess, but I'm curious if this is the case, is that the problem with completely enshrining federal qualified immunity law is that currently, as I understand it, the federal courts have said that federal officers have immunity entirely, which would then enshrine that into this bill, which would get us back to where we are prior to this bill. But maybe I'm wrong about that. So what is the problem with that? The immunity entirely piece is that you simply can't, because the Bivens Doctrine has been destroyed. So there really is no federal law, for the most part, that would allow you to sue a federal officer. So our goal here is there's an existing well-established body of law defining qualified immunity under Section 1983, and we are looking to import that into this cause of action. We're having ongoing conversations about the exact language. We want to make sure we had some concerns about what they proposed for qualified immunity, what would define it, and they also appear to want to freeze frame it to what it is today. if the Supreme Court changes it tomorrow, we want qualified immunity to track whatever the state of the law is for Section 1983 claims as defined by the federal courts. Because our goal here is just for everyone to be the same, federal, state, local, to have the same liability standards, the same defenses, the same immunities, all the same. And we don't want to reframe that. So we're going to continue those conversations. But that's – I just want to let you know what our goal is. Got it. And I imagine that would actually be beneficial to the opposition because the courts are fairly friendly right now. But I don't know if it's okay with Mr. Chair if the opposition is okay.

Senator Weinersenator

Yeah, we can continue to work on the language.

Senator Morningsenator

It's not our intent to freeze it as it exists today exactly, right? But just make sure that we're following precedential standards that were in place that officers are trained to and they understand. And it's, you know, a lot of what officers do on a daily basis, you know, is informed by those standards. And we have to make sure that if we're going to make significant changes or any changes at all, we've got to be really careful about that.

Senator Papinsenator

No, I think that's fair. And I think we've had many qualified immunity conversations over my eight years in this building. And to your point, you know, this is delicate, but it's important that there is where actions are as egregious as they are in this case, you know, that there is a cause of action, right? And that includes all the qualified immunity that I think you guys are seeking. So I agree with my colleague from Downey that I think we can get there and appreciate the work that both the opposition and the author are putting into finding that common ground. And then the second question was on the retroactivity piece. I thought what the opposition said about cases that have had their day in court was a valid one. Again, I think you're most focused on those folks that can't get into court today. And so I understand the retroactivity piece as it relates to something that are occurred in the past, but not for which there has been a claim filed. Will you touch on that?

Senator Morningsenator

I would say that would be a point to continue the conversations. I think where you'd want to be careful about just saying you can't have already filed a lawsuit is that some of the folks who've ended up in these awful situations have tried to file Biven suits. And realistically, I think we all probably know how those are going to end. They're not squarely foreclosed by existing law, but to the extent they find success in the lower courts, they'll probably lose at the Supreme Court. And so I think you want to make sure that it was keyed in to make sure that if someone had filed a lawsuit under one of the more hopeless claims right now you wouldn be in a situation to be out of court where you actually have a good claim later That would be distinguished from like if someone had already filed a 1983 suit and lost and like they'd already established a constitutional violation and not occurred. My guess is that there's various doctrines of preclusion that would prevent you from re-raising a constitutional claim that had already been adjudicated, but it's tough to speak in specifics. And one of the complexities is that we have to treat everyone the same. And so that's an issue we're certainly happy to continue to look at.

Senator Papinsenator

Yeah, and I imagine that there's a way to thread that needle and deal with cases that have been decided on the merits, right, which the cases that are thrown out based on the immunity that you're discussing would not have been decided on the merits of a constitutional claim. So I think there is a way to get to what you are both saying successfully and that ensures that people who didn't get their day in court because they're being thrown out of the current law will. Although it is an interesting question whether you would be able to bring a state, because this would be a separate cause of action that is now retroactive that didn't exist at the time. That seems like a very narrow legal question, and I'd be curious if there was precedent on that. Um, so, uh, but I think both of the points raised by the opposition seem like ones that, you know, I'm hopeful you guys will continue, as you both said, to work on and that we can get to a good place such that our law enforcement officers who are so critical to our communities, um, and are doing, you know, important work to keep us safe every day and are, um, you know, there is current law, Supreme Court hasn't found they can't be to suit under these loss, you know, don't see a patchwork, but we also are able to allow for individuals like Mr. Ramirez to get their day in court. So happy to support it today. And if it hasn't been moved, happy to move it. And before the motion, just, I believe we have an amendment for urgency,

Senator Weinersenator

Senator. Amendment adding urgency. Yes. Okay. So with that, with that amendment motion, We have motion in a second. Assemblymember Papin.

Senator Papinsenator

Well, thank you, Chair. I'd like to thank the author and the opposition. And my colleague from Miranda did cover the legal points, although I will touch just a tad on the retroactivity. It would seem to me it would have to be a pending claim rather than something that's already been adjudicated. There's just no way. So hopefully you can work that part out. That seems very easy. The qualified immunity part, I hope you get there. It's very important. First of all, thank you for sharing your story. And I apologize for not saying that initially. I do consider the bill to be tremendously important. I've supported your previous bills, the author's previous bills on the matter. Just on a personal note, my father was in the FBI, and I cannot help but think that he must be rolling over in his grave to hear stories like your witnesses. I mean, it is just unbelievable to me. And you've got these guys representing a whole host of folks that are doing tremendous work in our state as state officers. But the federal situation has to be addressed. So it's not an easy one. And it's very painful for some of us to hear that our local law enforcement is struggling with this bill because it seems like it should be something we get over the finish line. So like my colleague from Downey, let's get it over the finish line. It's tremendously important that the state of California doesn't have more likes of your witness. and it was frightening to hear your testimony, but I thank you for making the effort to be here.

Senator Weinersenator

Madam Chair? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Senator, during your opening, you talked about that

Senator Papinsenator

similar laws have been passed in, I believe, New York, Connecticut, and Vermont. Is that correct? Yeah Have there been successful cases brought there and can you tell me what the cause of action was or the results of those Those are very new laws I don know if Mr Kistler may have more data about them

Senator Morningsenator

They're just new laws. I'm not aware of any case being brought under the New York, Connecticut, or Vermont statutes as of this day. So they were signed last year, went into effect this year, or they're not even in effect yet?

Senator Papinsenator

It's different in each state. They were all signed this year. I think Vermont goes into effect. This is from memory. I think Vermont goes into effect on July 1st. New York, I think, is in effect now. It was signed by the governor as part of the budget package a couple weeks ago. And then Connecticut, I don't know the effective date on the Connecticut statute sitting right here, but it was passed and signed this year.

Senator Morningsenator

Okay. I'd be interested to see in the states that maybe are a little bit ahead of us. It sounds like there's urgency now what the success of those types of cases were, but thank you for that information.

Senator Papinsenator

And then to my law enforcement friends, as the bill stands today, what do you think this does to qualified immunity for your officers as the bill is written right now without amendments? The problem, as I said before, is that the language just says that you may assert qualified immunity. It doesn't define what the standard for qualified immunity is. And the amendments that we had proposed, and I'm actually quite pleased to hear that the senator seems to be in accord with us on wanting to tether it to the federal court standard. and we're, to be clear, not asking for it to be frozen in time, but to follow the federal case law, is simply to say that they will apply the identical federal standards and be bound by federal case law so that you don't have a situation where qualified immunity means one thing in California and another thing in federal court. So what potential impact do you think it could have to your officers is my question, I guess. I think it's incredibly uncertain right now, but I feel certain that there will be a distinction made in California between what qualified immunity is here and what it is federally. And any change determines how officers respond to situations and scenarios because, I mean, that's their livelihood. That's their lives. It's their freedom that's at stake, depending on what they are protected from and against. And if there's a change to it, I mean, you have to retrain every officer to that new standard. You know, we've got 80,000 law enforcement officers in the state retraining everyone on something like that, which is that important that we would have to. very serious impact. And potentially very serious impacts to our budget, our state budget that's already kind of in flux. Possibly, if we have to start retraining officers to a new standard, yes. You might end up with inconsistent rulings, too. Typically, these types of cases, presumably, you'd bring it under multiple statutes. Right now, if an officer is sued, California officers, local officers sued. They're sued under 1983. They're sued under the Bain Act. They're sued under the common torts, battery, false imprisonment, things of that nature. And so you want to have, I think it's important to remember what qualified immunity really is. It's saying that if an officer is confronted with circumstances where the law is not clearly established, that first officer confronting that situation gets qualified immunity. And once the law is clearly established than no other officer does. And so it really comes down to how do the courts define what clearly established is. And we need to have, in our view, one set of standards where this law in California would follow the same federal standards. And so officers and posts, when they're developing trainings, everybody knows what these terms mean and what the definitions are, and they follow the case law and the federal jurisprudence.

Senator Morningsenator

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Senator Weinersenator

um senator weiner did you have a comment on that um yeah i i just want to say like we

Senator Morningsenator

we've committed we've been talking to law We're going to continue to do that. We want everything to be drafted correctly and to be very tight, of course. I do have to just say, big picture, they're not going to have to retrain tens of thousands of officers. Officers are intensively trained on following the U.S. Constitution, and that's what's at issue here at the U.S. Constitution. They received significant training in the academy, and I know that there's ongoing training. If there are changes in the law, they get automatically retrained. There's a big change in the Fourth Amendment by the Supreme Court, for example. They'll be told about that. And so this is not a situation where it's like we're creating a brand-new standard. No, it's the U.S. Constitution, and they are all—I can't state it enough. Right today, state and local officers can be sued under Section 1983 for the exact conduct that we're talking about here. If you shoot someone in the face, if you arrest someone for no reason, hold them for five days, and you're a local officer, you can be sued right now today. And that won't change under this law. Instead, it's going to apply to everyone. And so, again, we'll work on the technicalities and to make sure everything is tightly drafted, of course. But I do think that some of the opposition, in my humble opinion, with all respect, has been overstated. And this bill is even more important now because we saw what just happened in the United States Senate a few days ago, where they got around the filibuster with reconciliation to shove another, I think, $70 billion into the ICE slush fund. And so ICE is now going to continue to get bigger with more untrained officers and more untrained Border Patrol officers who are going to come in the communities and brutalize people. And so we need to get ahead of this. And that's why this bill is so important.

Senator Weinersenator

Any other questions or comments? Well, thank you, Senator, for bringing this forward. And I will reiterate the gratitude towards Mr. Ramirez for being here and telling your story, which unfortunately can be repeated far too often, not just here in California, but in all corners of this nation, particularly, unfortunately, in states like California. and also to reiterate the appreciation for local law enforcement. I know that our San Jose police chief has been very clear on the directives that our police department has and of our local law enforcement in not cooperating with federal immigration enforcement and understanding how important that is for public safety for residents to understand that distinction and to know that their local law enforcement is there to protect everyone. And this is another example of legislation that we wish we wouldn't have to do under ordinary circumstances. Under bipartisan presidents, I think we've seen accountability of actions of federal agents. Unfortunately, right now, not only are we not seeing accountability, those federal agents are acting under the direction of our current administration to terrorize our community. It's not fair or equitable to our state and local law enforcement that they can act with impunity. I know a lot of local law enforcement don appreciate the conduct of those federal agents especially because it casts a negative light on law enforcement as a whole When we know that it the actions of those that are targeting our community targeting our immigrant community, and are not being given the same training or oversight or accountability that every other law enforcement officer appropriately does and willingly does to effectuate public safety in our community. And so, as indicated by the senator, you know, state and local law enforcement are already held accountable, and federal agents are not. The federal rulings on the Bain Act further exacerbate that. And I think it's incredibly, absolutely important that we have, you know, access to justice for conduct that's being done by our federal agents. and to the retroactivity piece as well, especially if there's been claims been brought that have been dismissed out of hand because of lack of, you know, based upon the current state of the law, lack of ability to even bring these cases against federal agents. You know, those cases should not be limited given what's happened over the last year and a half plus. and as it applies to the—and we're seeing this happen, and to the senator's point. Right now, we have grave concern in my county, in South County and Santa Clara County, of an ICE detention facility being built with very little accountability or oversight that any other kind of facility would have to go through. So the reality is that, unfortunately, I don't think these actions are going to stop anytime soon. And so it's more important than ever that we do have our standards that we're able to apply to the actions of federal agents. And as it applies to qualified immunity, I mean, look, if there's a current state of qualified immunity or definitions that folks can agree on, that's one thing. But simply attaching it to federal law, when we see what the Supreme Court is doing right now, I would be very cautious about that, knowing the allegiance that the Supreme Court right now has to our federal administration. So if there can be some continued conversation of what qualified immunity means under ordinary circumstances that have been applied over many, many years, that's something I think that conversation should continue. but I would be very cautious about attaching it to changes in federal law that may be coming around the corner that we may not even be aware of at this moment. That could be detrimental to our ability to have true oversight over law enforcement, federal or otherwise. I'd like to add it as a co-author, and would you like to close?

Senator Morningsenator

I think we've said it. We respectfully ask for an aye vote. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Motion is due pass as amended, adding an urgency clause to appropriations. Kalra? Aye. Kalra, aye. Macedo, no. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Brian, Connolly, aye. Connolly, aye. Dixon, no. Harabedian, Pacheco, aye. Pacheco, aye. Papin, aye. Papin, aye. Sanchez, no. Sanchez, no. Stephanie, Zabur, aye. Zabur, aye. All right. Place that on call. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Good to see you Item four is SB 934 Also Senator Wiener Whenever you're ready, whenever you're ready, Senator. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'm here today to present Senate Bill 934, which is a bill to provide justice to survivors of conversion therapy by allowing them to seek compensation through malpractice claims. Additionally, the bill conforms the definition for conversion therapy in the existing law, the prohibition for conversion therapy on minors, to the definition in this bill so that they are consistent. The definition is limited to practices which seek to direct a patient towards a predetermined sexual orientation or gender identity outcome. Bottom line, conversion therapy is quackery. It is attempting to change someone's sexual orientation or gender identity in a way that is psychological torture. All major medical associations agree that these are immutable characteristics and that conversion therapy is fraud and harms patients. Research shows that conversion therapy does not change a person's sexual orientation or gender identity, but instead is associated with serious harm, including increased likelihood of depression, suicidality, lower educational attainment, and economic insecurity. Colleagues in 2012, California led by becoming the first state in the country to ban licensed mental health providers from engaging in conversion therapy. This ban has served as an essential bulwark against this horrific practice. Unfortunately, earlier this year, the U.S. Supreme Court put that ban in question legally by ruling with respect to Colorado's ban on youth conversion therapy by applying a standard that is significantly higher than what had previously been believed, strict scrutiny. This decision was extremely cruel to say that someone has a First Amendment right to inflict psychological torture on another person, But it's also important to understand that that ruling has no impact on this bill. In fact, the majority opinion in the Colorado Supreme Court case specifically left the door open for malpractice lawsuits in the conversion therapy context. context. So what this bill does is it extends the statute of limitations to ensure that people who have been subjected to this torture and may not even realize the harm until later on have ample time to be able to file a lawsuit to have accountability. And it also ensures that actual science is used in determining causation. So I respectfully ask for your aye vote on this bill. I do want to just note that some of the local government groups that have come forward, we're in continuing conversations with them. We think this is a very narrow issue with respect to local government liability but we happy to have those conversations with them With me to testify is Curtis Lopez Galloway the founder of the Conversion Therapy Survivor Network and Chris Sowell, a senior staff attorney at the National Center for LGBTQ Rights. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you, Senator. Morning, members and chairman. My name is Curtis Lopez Galloway. I'm here today to request your support of SB 934. When I was 16 years old, I came out to my parents as gay, and after struggling with my sexuality, I was left depressed, anxious, and mentally suffering at the hands of a licensed Christian therapist. I was subjected to what I later found out to be conversion therapy, and it was the worst experience of my life. I'm not alone. As founder of the Conversion Therapy Survivor Network, the only national organization to support survivors of this practice, I've seen firsthand the immense trauma and psychological damage that conversion therapy does to a person. I regularly hear from individuals who are subjected to profound emotional degradation, intense shaming, and manipulative practices designed to force people to bury their true selves. The effects of conversion therapy do not end when the sessions stop. The trauma can take years and often decades to surface. Many survivors cannot seek any legal remedies for their abuse within the time that the current law gives them to do so. For me, it took me 10 years before I was ready and able to take action, and unfortunately, any claims of medical malpractice was no longer available to me, and I was left with no legal recourse and any meaningful action. This bill recognizes the unique nature of this trauma and ensures that survivors have a fair opportunity to seek justice when they are finally able to come forward. The Trevor Project has identified at least 67 practitioners of conversion therapy in California, so it is imperative that these extended protections be implemented to protect vulnerable communities within California. Survivors deserve accountability. They deserve justice. So please support SB 934. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning. My name is Christopher Stoll. I'm a senior staff attorney at the National Center for LGBTQ Rights, a national nonprofit legal organization. We are proud co-sponsors of SB 934, and I'm here to urge your support. For over 30 years, the attorneys at NCLR have represented survivors of conversion therapy, people who are subjected to practices by licensed medical and mental health professionals that attempt to direct patients toward a predetermined sexual orientation or gender identity. These practices have been condemned by every major medical and mental health organization in the country. We at NCLR have seen firsthand the harms, depression, anxiety, shattered family relationships, and a dramatically elevated risk of suicidality that these practices leave in their wake. We've also seen something else. Survivors who come to us ready to pursue justice only to learn that it's too late. Not because their claims lack merit, but because California's existing statute limitations does not account for a fundamental reality about conversion therapy. The harm it does often remains hidden for years. Survivors may not connect the symptoms that they're facing to what was done to them in a therapist's office years earlier until long after the clock has run out. SB 934 fixes this. It extends the statute of limitations for malpractice claims arising from these practices. It allows courts to consider expert testimony and scientific literature to establish causation. The same approach California law currently applies in cases of latent physical injury like asbestos exposure. This is not novel. It simply gives survivors a fair opportunity to seek justice using the same legal claims that are available to them today. This legislation also addresses the Supreme Court's recent decision in Childs v. Salazar by clarifying that the definition of conversion therapy is viewpoint neutral and protects minors from any attempt to direct them toward a predetermined sexual orientation or gender identity, regardless of the direction of the intended change. And finally, it's also important to know what this legislation doesn't do. It doesn't create a new cause of action. It doesn't affect medical treatments for gender dysphoria. It doesn't prevent counseling of individuals going through a gender transition or a detransition. It only concerns mental health treatment that specifically attempts to direct patients toward a predetermined sexual orientation or gender identity outcome, a practice that's known to put patients at great risk of serious harm. I urge a yes vote. Thank you. Is there anyone else here in support of SB 934? Thank you, Mr. Chair and members. Alice Kessler, I'm here on behalf of Equality California, which is also a co-sponsor of the bill, and I've also been asked to state support for Lambda Legal and the Trevor Project, so I would urge your aye vote. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, my name is Addie Sackler. I'm a survivor of conversion therapy and I urge your aye vote. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, Tyler Rindy, California Psychological Association in support. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, attorney and president of Latinx Bar Association in support. Thanks. Thank you. And we have witnesses here in opposition whenever you're ready. Hi, I'm Dr. Joseph Burgo. I'm a clinical psychologist with about four decades of experience, both as a practitioner and in training therapists. My current practice area is working with detransitioned males. These are men who identified as trans for a time, underwent hormone therapy and surgery, and then realized later on in time that they were actually gay and had been shame-ridden and in flight from their homosexual identity. So these young men live with surgical changes that they can't reverse, including the removal of their testicles, the inversion of their penises into a neovagina, and often the loss of sexual function or pleasure, and that's for life. They're also trapped in a body that requires ongoing medical care due to surgical complications, again, for life. I'm a gay man myself, I want to say, and I care deeply about this population. I also used to lead a program that provided subsidized therapy for detransitioners. And the most common complaint I heard from these young men is that nobody asked them about their sexual orientation and nobody explored the possible psychological motivations for wanting to transition. So in supervising therapists today, I constantly hear about their anxiety over legal exposures or risks to their license if they do just that, practice traditional exploratory psychotherapy. These aren't conversion therapists. These are earnest clinicians who want to practice traditional psychotherapy with gender distressed young people, but they're afraid to do so. So I think SB 934 will discourage these therapists from helping young men like the ones in my practice and saving them from having unnecessary medical harms And it going to harm the patients it claims to protect Please don pass this bill Thank you Good morning. My name is Jamie Reed. I am also a homosexual like Joe. I'm a lesbian and a former case manager at the Washington University Transgender Center Children's Hospital, where I worked with nearly 1,500 unique patients. I left that clinic because I could no longer participate in what I witnessed, which is exactly what this bill is seeking to endorse, a gender affirmation only model. I provided an affidavit to the attorney general as a lifelong Democrat, knowing what it would cost me. Kids are being harmed and no one inside the system would say so. Dr. Burgo and I are both homosexuals. That matters this month. Pride was never just a celebration. It was people with everything to lose refusing to be silent. I am honored to sit beside him as so many adult gays and lesbians are coming to fully understand what is at stake when the question at hand for children is a gender identity. SB 934 would silence the next clinician who has doubts. Its definition of prohibited change efforts exposes any therapist who wants to slow a patient down who is on a path to medically change their body, explore whether distress has other roots, or ask simply about their sexual orientation. The kids that I saw in my clinic were not a monolith. Many were autistic. Many had significant trauma. Many had come through the foster care system, a system I know is an adopted lesbian parent of three kids from that system. These kids deserve clinicians and laws to support them as clinicians who would be able to permit them to ask why. Kids came in distressed and they left with prescriptions. This bill will not protect autistic children, traumatized young people, or those in foster care. And in this month of pride, it will not protect gay youth, because what we know is most gender nonconforming kids will grow up to be gay if we just left them alone. Instead, it protects and places into law the very system that is failing them. I urge you to oppose it. Thank you. Is there anyone else here in opposition to SB 934? name, organization, if any, and your position on the bill only, please. Yeah, my name is Erin Friday. I'm an attorney, and I am here to offer my services as a technical witness. At the last hearing, the author described this bill as— Just your position on the bill, ma'am. We've got two witnesses. We oppose the bill. Thank you. Our duty president and mother of a daughter who used to believe that she was a boy. Thank you. Charlotte Johnson, sad mama of a mentally unstable child who was harmed by the affirmation only protocol. Please oppose. Thank you. Romy Mancini. I'm a member of Women Are Real. I am a former attorney for the ACLU Lesbian and Gay Rights Project, and I oppose this bill. Thank you. Hello, I'm a licensed, my name is Doug Novotten. I'm a licensed psychologist and co-leader of the Bay Area chapter for FAIR, the Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism, now known as FAIR for All, strongly opposed. Thank you. Greg Burr with the California Family Council in Opposition. Thank you. Emily Campbell with the California Baptist Capital Ministry on behalf of these five California churches, South Coast and Santa Barbara, Freedom's Way and Santa Clarita, Mountain Avenue and Banning and Solid Rock and Bellflower and Silicon Valley Chinese Baptist and Santa Clara. Opposed? Thank you I brought Campbell from the Baptist Capital Ministry on behalf of six California Baptist churches Ridgewood Heights and Eureka Faith in Sheridan Calvary in American Canyon New Testament in Hanford Faith in Atascadero, and Lighthouse in Santa Maria in opposition. Thank you. Marie Harabial from San Francisco, California, a Democrat attorney, mother. I'm here on behalf of the Coalition Against Poorly Written Bills with Massive Loopholes that will ensure expensive and extensive litigation funded by taxpayers, and I oppose this bill. Is that a registered organization? Analee Augustine with the Civil Justice Association of California, respectfully opposed just due to the Reviver and Statute of Limitation provisions. Thank you. My name is Julie Lane. I'm a lesbian from San Francisco. I am the founder of the Coalition of Sane People, and these bills about gender identity are insane. Thank you. I oppose. Thank you. Hi, good morning. I represent the coalition of women that don't have penises. My daughter got to grow up to be a healthy, whole young woman because I didn't lie to her like you are lying. Thank you. Meg Madden, on behalf of CAUSE, Californians United for Sex-Based Evidence in Policy and Law. in opposition. Thank you. Thank you. And the first technical witness, if you had documentation you wanted to submit, we're happy to take any documentation you have to make it part of the record. We'll bring it back to committee. Assemblymember Pacheco. Thank you. And I want to again thank the author for bringing this bill forward. I'm glad to hear that you're going to be working with local governments. My main concern is the local governments and how it could impact them. And I know they had some concerns and there were some amendments that were mentioned here. But I'm looking forward to those conversations just so that local governments can feel supported too and see how we can help them. So I am supporting your bill, of course, but just wanted to make sure those conversations happen. But you already mentioned that in your comments. Thank you. Thank you. Assembly members Zabir. So I want to thank the author for bringing the bill. Mr. Galloway, thank you for coming forward and sharing your story and your experience. Unfortunately, that is one that has been shared by thousands of people who have gone through this really horrendous therapy. When you've talked to survivors, one of the things that is common is that the trauma and the abuse that they faced is something that affects them for many, many, many years. And it's something that the medical profession and all medical, you know, institutional and organizations have basically found to be harmful since well before, starting in 2009 and before that. And so I think this is a really, really important bill, especially given some of the uncertainty that's coming out of our federal courts, which I'm very, very disappointed in. I'm disappointed in the Supreme Court, including some of the justices that were appointed by Democrats and sort of where they're coming out on laws that are crucial in protecting LGBTQ young people who are the subject of this abuse. You know I believe this bill is really narrowly narrowly tailored and aligns with California law governing medical negligence and ensures that survivors can seek accountability for the harms that emerge years later Concerns I know that have been raised by local government exposure I think are really I don't think they're well founded frankly because this bill limits exposure, public entity exposure, it's limited by the bill's 2009 start date so we're not going back that many years. By that point, professional consensus was clear that conversion therapy fell below the accepted standards of care, and local agencies should not have been providing or facilitating those services through licensed mental health professionals. I can't imagine that that actually was occurring here in the state of California after 2009, so the likelihood that there's significant exposure to public entities, I think, is really remote. and the concerns about expanding liability are understandable, given the broader challenges that local governments are facing. But this is a distinct and highly fact-specific area. Any claims would still need to satisfy existing legal standards, making widespread institutional exposure extremely, extremely unlikely. I mean, think about it. I mean, what state, what local governments were engaging in conversion therapy after 2009. I mean, I've known none. And so that's something that I can understand why the concern is given some of the other issues we're dealing with. But I just think that this is extremely limited. And so I just want to thank the author for bringing this bill today. I do think it's a very limited and important bill. You know, we may not have the same, you know, given the California's laws are still in place and I'm hoping that though and of course you know there needs to be a set you know they're still in place but we also need to protect these kids from a re-emergence of an incredibly harmful practice and this is the tool that we have to do that and so with that I want to thank you for bringing the bill I'm strongly supportive and we'll be supporting it today. Is we moving the bill? Is there a second? And we have a second. Any other questions or comments? Madam Vice Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank you guys for the work you're doing. I've heard the stories of some of the patients that you've worked with, and I'm sorry for what you went through as well. I think our children are going through things that I am very grateful. I did not, as a child, enforcing them to be politicized is not something that I agree with either. So we just need to be supportive and allow them to really lead this conversation, I think. But I do have some concerns that I was hoping could be addressed. The main one being that given that Section 5A2 bans practices that seek to direct a patient toward a predetermined outcome, but explicitly exempts non-directive psychotherapies in section 5A3A, what objective legal standard distinguishes a permissible identity exploration session from an impermissible directive session when a patient voluntarily seeks help to align their attractions with their traditional faith? And that can be for either side. I mean, so there is like therapy has existed for a long time and that this is not, and when you look at the malpractice context, I mean, these are existing claims. You can sue someone today. We're Underlying liability, we're talking about the statute of limitations primarily. And so that can be litigated today. And we're very clear in this bill about that distinction, that we're not in any way restricting people's ability to engage in exploratory therapy. But perhaps Mr. Stolk can add to that. Yeah, I think my answer to that is that this is what courts do every day. You know, they apply standards of care. They apply statutory language to a particular factual situation, and they determine whether the facts lie on one side of the line or the other. That's why we have judges. That's why we have juries. And the courts will not have any greater trouble navigating this than any other legal requirement that we have. But this was a case that you were – and I'm not giving you a set of facts because I don't know the facts here as far as, like, what a potential case would be. My question is, is what distinguishes the identity exploration from a directive session? How would you legally differentiate those? As I said, I think that's for a court to decide based on the facts of a particular case and the evidence that's before them. Would you guys respond to that? Yes. And although I appreciate the question, I will challenge it a little bit. if the representative would remove gender from this bill, he would actually have my support. But the evidence also shows that what is called a change effort historically does not work regarding sexual orientation. So we have attempted these change efforts not just therapeutically, but biochemically, with hormones, with surgeries, historically for decades. What we have found is there's no evidence that anything like that can substantially change someone's sexual orientation. What right now is being conflated is this concept called gender identity. What we know is most of these young people who experience gender nonconformity in childhood, young adulthood, and adolescence are proto-gay humans. They will grow up to be gays and lesbians if we simply do not try to change them and leave them alone. What we believe that gender ideology is doing is trying to force gays and lesbians to grow up to become straight people. So when you are conflating these two, it is our belief that you are actually going to be harming proto-gay young people by your continuing to leave gender ideology into these bills. That is the harm. So again, I don't agree with you that I believe that young people should be allowed to be in a therapeutic session with a faith change to make them straight because we know we can't do that. But the reason why we are more aligned than you and I are right now is because you're continuing to conflate gender ideology and pushing proto-gay young people to physically change their bodies to make them become straight people. Thank you. The question was about how this will be weighed in a court of law. Do you have any question or comment on that? We'll come back to you, Madam Meister. Do you have any comment on that? I mean, since I was just addressed directly by the witness, which we normally don't do here. But, you know, the idea that anyone is pushing or forcing anyone to change their gender is just absurd. These are these are whether you a young person or not a young person people make their own choices and they are who they are and they express what they express And we know that the vast majority of people including young people who transition do not detransition. Detransitioners are a small percentage of folks who transition who should receive all the support and health care in the world. They absolutely should. But this idea that because a small percentage of trans people detransition, that therefore no one should have the ability to transition, I think is not something I agree with. And fundamentally, but back to what this bill is, is because I know there's a broader movement to try to say trans people don't exist, which we just heard that any trans young person is really a gay or lesbian person, period, just completely obliterating their existence. But what this bill is about is when you have, for example, a kid says to their parents, I'm gay or I'm lesbian or I'm trans. And then the parent says, we're sending you away to be converted. That's what this is. I will tell you, I have a neighbor who told me recently that when he was, he's in his 30s now, when he was a teenager in Louisiana, his parents found out he was gay and they immediately sent him to a mental health institution to try to convert him. And that's what this is about, about trying to change who someone is through therapy as opposed to exploring, which this bill does not in any way impact. My next question, my colleague mentioned 2009. That's 18 years ago. I actually think that's a pretty expansive amount of time, but I actually have concerns with a defendant's substantive rights to a fair trial because, I mean, are they expected to keep notes and records and everything like that from 18 years ago? But I work in a business that, you know, I have to keep things for five years, 10 years, depending on what the subject matter is. But for this, I mean, as far as them having access to a fair trial, and I want you guys to talk as potentially as providers, you would be looped in this. What is the way, like, I guess, what is industry standard for keeping records on somebody? And 18 years seems like a pretty expansive time to keep those kinds of records. And then if you can respond as to the legality of a fair trial and how you can ensure that for these potential defendants. It is well outside the statute of records being kept. It's well outside of even medical records. So I used to clinically run a Planned Parenthood. We had a seven-year statute, and that was how long we kept our documentation for. So we were routinely destroying all documentation after a seven-year window. So you're absolutely correct. There would be no way for someone to defend themselves against these claims. They would have no documentation left. They might not even be able to prove that they saw that client. And I don't know how they would be able to follow up and show what was done with that patient or client with that kind of a window. Could I speak to the question you were asking earlier about the distinction between a permissible and impermissible? If it's okay, let me share. Go ahead. Yeah. It's this very ambiguity, which you say needs to be left to the courts, that terrifies therapists. And I hear it from them all the time. If it not clarified in advance if you leave it to the courts people are going to stay away from working with this population because they too frightened of the legal exposure I hear it week after week from therapists that I work with who I supervise and they just too scared to undertake this kind of work And I think I understand that conversion therapy for gay people is ineffective and doesn't work. But that's, as Jamie said, that's different from talking about someone's gender identity, which Kinnan McKinnon, a researcher in this area and a trans man himself, says could be as high as 30%. So it's not such a small group. I just think gender identity is flexible. We need people, we need to allow therapists to work with these kids in an open-ended way to explore what it means to them rather than threatening them with a lawsuit if they don't affirm. And then to the opposition, how can you guarantee a fair trial if, based on what the practitioners are saying, they don't have these records to even defend themselves? This is not a new approach. There are lengthy statutes of limitations under California law. And as of 2009, that's when there was a consensus that conversion therapy is not within accepted standards. And so at that point, people should not have been practicing it. So you expect that all the way back to 2009, these practitioners are going to have enough information to protect themselves in cases that there's no way. I guess if you're bringing evidence saying this happened to me, they have no way of defending themselves. I think it's I don't think it's the case that medical records are being destroyed after a few years. I think it's very common for medical records to exist for a very long period of time. For 20 years? I think that's my question, is do you believe in, I mean, we have practitioners here, so I'm guessing that you've engaged with the community when drafting this bill. The California Psychological Association supports the bill. Are they in the room? Is there anybody that can? Their lobbyist is here, but they support the bill. There's no opposition from any of the associations that represent mental health licensed professionals who are the people who are the actual associations who represent the licensed mental health professionals who are covered by this bill. One of the major ones supporting the bill and none of them, to my knowledge, is opposing the bill. And so, and that 2009 has been, we put that in there because it used to be that there was no cutoff and we put the 2009 time period in there. And there is no opposition from that, from those associations. And one of the major ones supports the bill. And I can understand the association is supporting it, but in a courtroom, that's not going to help them. I mean, like what you're telling, and I'll come back to you. You said you worked for Planned Parenthood, correct? Yes, ma'am. And that was seven years. Yes. And then HIPAA requirements also are very much something that should be considered here. There are legal HIPAA requirements for the length of time documentation should exist. I will add one more piece, though. We did reach out to Representative Wiener's office, and we actually tried to get his office willing to speak to other therapeutic organizations that operate nationally and within California. and his office was not interested in hearing from those other organizations that are representing therapists within this state who also have concerns around those records and this law Okay I I I tend to agree that keeping records for that long is a bit expansive, especially when you talk about large volume clinics and things like that. Um, the other, my final question is under the definition of gender identity change efforts in section two, if a licensed counselor verbally affirms a minor patient's biological sex and discourages medical transition in accordance with the counselor's traditional beliefs, how does this prohibition not constitute a view-based restriction on protected therapeutic speech under the First Amendment? I'm sorry, can you read that again, please? Sure. So, under Section 2 of the bill, if a licensed counselor verbally affirms a minor patient's biological sex and discourages medical transition in accordance with the counselor's traditional beliefs, how does this prohibition not constitute a viewpoint-based restriction on protected therapeutic speech under the First Amendment? I guess that's my question to the legal counsel. Would there be First Amendment issues? I'm not sure I've absorbed everything in your hypothetical, but what I'll say is that the bill prohibits an attempt by a therapist to impose a predetermined outcome with respect to a patient's gender identity in whichever direction it is and based on whatever it's based on. It's a conduct-based rule that's based on the functional purpose of the therapy. I think it's important to note here that when you're utilizing this phrase, a predetermined outcome, when we're talking about gender questions, one of the most important things that the therapists are asked to do right now is to actually provide the documentation letters that predetermine the next medical step. So we're talking about what is the predetermined outcome. When you have an affirming therapist, they're not just predetermining the outcome of someone's clothing or name. They're actually predetermining the outcome of the physical changes that will be happening to this individual's body that they would have to deal with, as Dr. Berger was talking about, for the rest of their lives. When we asked Dr. Wiener's staff and his office, not only to meet with us, but then we asked, could they at least specifically spell out that they are willing to allow the word detransitioner to be represented in his bill, they told us no. They also said that they wanted everyone reflected in the bill, yet were refusing to clearly spell out that if this is meant to represent those who have undergone a significant change effort, that a detransitioner should be part of those who could access this bill. But his office told us that there was no way that was to be allowed, and that word was not going to be added to this bill. Again, I'll go back. I am not opposed to the concept of stopping conversion efforts towards sexual orientation. And I'm also, if you want to move forward this, then actually broaden it to include everyone who's undergone a change effort and put the word detransitioner in the bill. I appreciate you guys being here today. Best of luck with all the work you're doing, young man. Thank you for being here today and sharing your story as well. I wish you all the best. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? On the last point regarding First Amendment, no one is forcing a therapist to advise someone regarding gender identity. You can have a therapist that is anti-LGBTQ altogether, and they have a First Amendment right in a therapist relationship. Therefore, I guess my instinctual response to that is, why would a therapist even be in that role if they're not going to actually advise a client on all the – okay, I'm not going to go because I can't articulate it right now. it's just it's mind-boggling to me that we would have therapists that aren't even willing to entertain um the to the senator's point the idea that trans people should exist and that they're they're going to be able they're going to advise someone and say well because i can't i'm not even willing to go there now you're violating my first sentence right as a therapist that doesn't even It doesn't even make sense to me. But anyway, not to go off on a tangent, it was just something that struck me. The idea here is that we should be protecting those that are in therapy and ensuring that they're actually being given actual therapy and actual guidance. That should apply to everyone. But in particular, given what the senator has spoken about, the tradition of the conversion therapy and how harmful it has been to so many in our community. I also, as mentioned, to exposure to local governments, I do believe it's nominal, if at all. But, you know, certainly I know the senator is going to have those continued conversations. But I understand the sensitivity that local governments have given other liability issues that are happening in the world of civil justice. So I understand they're being a little sensitive to it, but I'm not as concerned about it on this particular case, the narrowness of the legislation. And in regards to evidence and cases being old, I mean, look, the evidence or lack thereof will be taken into account as part of the totality of circumstances. That can hurt the defense, can also hurt a plaintiff, too, if they don't actually have evidence or documentation to make their case. Ultimately, when it comes down to whether therapies being directional or not, that's the job of the courts, to determine the probative value of evidence that's put before them and to make a determination. and the fact finder, the jury, they will take that into consideration given the rules of the court. So in any case, I'm sorry to be rambling on a little bit here, but I just think that this is a pretty straightforward case, far more straightforward than I think the kind of muddiness that's been created. I appreciate the senator for bringing it forward. I do think that ensuring that there's access to justice for those that have been victims of conversion therapy is incredibly important. And so we'll be supporting the bill. Would you like to close, Senator?

Senator Morningsenator

Yeah, thank you very much. And thank you, colleagues, for the conversation today. You know, it wasn't that long ago that some of the arguments we hear today about trans kids were being made about gay and lesbian kids. It still happens today, but it was way more back in the past. it's just a phase. Just, you know, we'll send you someone to talk to about it to make sure that you're not gay. It's not real. It's made up. You're being influenced. It's a social contagion. That's the word they use today. You're being influenced by other people. Someone must be you know making you gay or lesbian And so we gonna make you not gay or lesbian That like the way it was And again it still is in some places today in some families or some communities. But that was very, very, very prevalent not that long ago. And the carnage that was done to gay and lesbian kids in particular from that approach and that attitude, which was being operationalized through the mental health profession, it's astounding the level of harm that was inflicted. And we correctly banned that. And we said, you're not going to do this. And now we need to make sure that we can continue to stand strong for these kids. But unfortunately, now we're seeing the same thing being said about trans kids. And we know, again, that the huge majority of kids who are trans do not detransition. And of the ones who do, a portion of them detransition because they are being harassed and demonized. And so they do it because they're not being accepted by their community. And so the idea that people would come in here and say, it doesn't exist. It's not real. Even though we know the vast majority are not seeking the detransition. Again, it is to me, no different than what was being said not very long ago about people like me and people like the people sitting around this table, gay and lesbian people, that we weren't real, that it was all fake and made up. And if you just go and get converted, it'll all be good. So we should support all LGBTQ people. That's what this bill does. This bill does not change what malpractice is. Malpractice exists today. Any of the issues about ambiguity for a therapist in this context or any other therapy malpractice context is the same yesterday and today and after this bill hopefully goes into effect. What this does is ensure that people who are deeply harmed by this completely repudiated practice can get justice. That's what this bill is about, and I respectfully ask for an aye vote. Motion is due pass to

Senator Weinersenator

Appropriations, Cholera? Aye. Cholera, aye. Macedo? No. Macedo, no. Bauer-Cahan? Aye. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Bryan? Aye. Bryan, aye. Connelly? Aye. Connelly, aye. Dixon? No. Dixon, no. Harabedian? Pacheco? Aye. Pacheco, aye. Pappan? Aye. Pappan, aye. Sanchez? No. Sanchez, no. Stephanie? Zabur? Aye. Zabur, aye. Great. Thank you. Let those out. On to our last bill, item 8, SB 1344, Senator Cabaldon.

Senator Christopher Cabaldonsenator

Hi, sir. Whatever whatever you and your witnesses are ready to go. Great. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair members. I'm here to present SB 1344. This bill builds on legislation that every member of both caucuses and both houses voted for two years ago SB 393 when it presented by assembly Assemblymember Bauer on the Assembly floor was intending to address some of the challenges with vexatious and frivolous litigation against affordable housing projects in California That's especially important in those projects because they often, thanks to us, are delivered through 35, 37, 38 different funding sources and grants that expire within a couple of months. And so the cost to projects of frivolous and vexatious delays is substantial and can often cause them to fall apart altogether. And so this legislature overwhelmingly adopted SB 393 for that purpose. But if you think that affordable housing projects can sometimes generate NIMBY, vexatious, frivolous litigation, well, think about interim housing, permanent supportive housing, and home key projects. And so this bill is intended to expand that SB 393 framework for the motion to strike and for bonding requirements to assure that those same protections, that the attorney general can pursue those same protections when it comes to the projects that the people of California through Prop 1 bonding and other programs have laid out, that we want to build permanent supportive housing, interim housing, and other related housing projects. We recognize that there's going to be opposition and folks will seek to abuse the legal system in order to block them. And delay does result in blockage because those depend on grant programs that have deadlines. The bill does not prevent the litigation by any means. It simply says that a motion to strike can be considered by the court at the prosecutor's initiation and that the bonding requirement can match the potential loss that is involved to the project developer in order to move these projects forward. So this simply tries to achieve the voters' will, delivering the projects that have been financed through Proposition 1 and related programs and builds off the model that has had widespread broad support to bring affordable housing to reality. I would ask for an aye vote. With me today in support and as the sponsor is Janice Stanaford, the Deputy Attorney General in the Office of Legislative Affairs for Attorney General Rob Bonta. She's joined by David Pye, supervising Deputy Attorney General, who's here simply to provide technical assistance. Thank you.

Janice Stanafordwitness

Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members. Janice Stanaford with the AG's office. I want to start by thanking Senator Cabaldon for authoring this important bill, which the AG is proud to sponsor. The AG is committed to using the expertise of the Department of Justice and our housing justice team to advance housing access, affordability, and equity in California. The AG supports proven, evidence-based housing-first policies that bring Californians inside. SB 1344 would support that goal by deterring and more quickly resolving meritless lawsuits that delay building housing interventions for California's most vulnerable populations. There are existing procedural tools that give courts the ability to strike a meritless claim and to impose a bond as security for costs and damages resulting from project delays from a meritless claim. These tools protect a limited class of affordable housing projects and the cities that approve them for meritless litigation. SB 1344 would extend those protections to also apply to priority care developments, which are projects funded through the Community Care Expansion Program, the Behavioral Health Services Act, and the Behavioral Health Infrastructure Bond Act, including Home Key Plus. These programs fund emergency shelters, interim housing, adult and senior facilities, and supportive housing including more than billion in housing investments for veterans facing behavioral health challenges By extending these procedural tools to priority care developments SB 1344 would protect projects that the state has already prioritized through funding and streamlined ministerial approvals. The Attorney General is proud to sponsor SB 1344 to facilitate urgently needed residential facilities statewide that support California's most vulnerable populations, and we respectfully ask for your aye vote. Thank you.

Senator Weinersenator

Mr. Lanoff, he's here for technical assistance only. Gotcha. All right, anyone else here in support of SB 1344?

Raymond Contreraswitness

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members. Raymond Contreras with Lighthouse Public Affairs on behalf of California, UMB, Abundant Housing, LA, and Spurn, strong support.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone here in opposition to SB 1344? All right, bring it back

Assembly Member Assembly Member Dixonassemblymember

to committee. Assemblymember Bauer-Cahan. I just want to thank the senator. As he mentioned, I floor jockeyed the prior version of this bill, which was for 130 units affordable housing in the city of Livermore. That was finalized by the city council in 2018. We did our first groundbreaking a week ago. So eight years later, and this is a housing project that the city, the vexational litigants have put on the ballot twice with referenda. Overwhelmingly, the city supports this, and yet it took over five years of litigation and eight years to get that ground broken. 130 people could have been housed. And so this really is where SQL falls apart is when you have, frankly, in this situation, someone with endless amounts of money who doesn't want this 130-unit affordable housing project done, and they use what is meant to be an important environmental law to just prevent people from being housed. And so I want to thank you because these projects are really important. We're putting the dollars in there. But I will also note that as a result of the delays, it has cost us $75 million more for that project. And so the delays that are caused are not just keeping people housed. it's also costing significant amount of money and often to the state. So this is really important. And I want to thank you for your continued effort to do this. And with that, I'll move the bill.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you for a second. Senator Zabert, I think he whispered a second.

Assembly Member Rick Zburassemblymember

I said a second. This wasn't sure if I was getting called out. So I actually want to thank the office for the bill. I think this is incredibly important. I mean, when I was first running for office three and a half, four years ago, the top issue in my community was basically addressing the crisis of our housing crisis and our crisis of homelessness. Even though what's happening at the federal government in some ways has displaced that as the top issue, it is still a really important one that our communities are grappling with. And this bill is important to move forward the things that our communities need in order to address the conditions that people that are unhoused are facing in our communities. The biggest thing that we need to do, at least in my area, is we need more transitional housing and transitional beds in our communities. And of course, those are projects that sometimes face community concern and vexatious litigants who are bringing meritless claims. And so I think that if we are, we still need to solve that crisis of our housing crisis and the and the issues that they're facing with homelessness, and this is an incredibly important bill to give, to move these projects along. I'll say that with respect to, you know, issues of delay are really important ones. I actually have an affordable housing project that's in Hollywood in my district that is actually focusing on folks that are in the... basically struggling artists and actors. And they have experienced almost a three-year delay because of that project, which has increased the cost of that project by, I think it was $30 million at this point because of these delays. So this is a, you know, it's really important that when we've got these meritless lawsuits that we actually have the tools to address them. And just want to thank you for this, and we'll be supporting it today.

Senator Weinersenator

Thank you. Any other questions or comments? We have a motion. Thank you, Senator, for bringing this vote forward. Would you like to close?

Senator Christopher Cabaldonsenator

I would simply ask for an aye vote. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Senator Weinersenator

Members. Motion is due pass. Kalra? Aye. Kalra, aye. Macedo? No. Macedo, no. Bauer-Cahan? Aye. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Bryan? Bryan, aye. Connelly? Aye. Connelly, aye. Dixon? No, voting. Herbedian? Pacheco? Aye. Pacheco, aye. Pappin? Pappin? Papin, aye. Sanchez? No. Sanchez, no. Stephanie? Aye. Stephanie, aye. Zabur? Aye. Zabur, aye. All right, that bell's out. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we'll go through the roll. We'll start with consent calendar. For consent, Macedo? Aye. Macedo, aye. Bauer-Cahan? Aye. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Brian? Aye. Brian, aye. Herbedian? Sanchez? Aye. Sanchez, aye. Okay. Item 1, add-ons for SB 99, Blake Spear. Macedo? Aye. Macedo, aye. Bauer-Cahan? Aye. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Brian? Aye. Brian, aye. Harabedian? Sanchez? Aye. Sanchez, aye. We'll move the call on Item 2, SB 747, Wiener. Brian? Aye. Brian, aye. Harabedian? Sanchez? Oh, sorry. Sanchez, no. Stephanie? Aye. Stephanie, aye. All right, that bill is out. We'll move the call on item 3, SB 932, Hurtado. Macedo? Aye. Macedo, aye. Bauer-Cahan? Aye. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Bryan? Aye. Bryan, aye. Herabedian? Pacheco? Aye. Pacheco, aye. Sanchez? Aye. Sanchez, aye. Stephanie? Aye. Stephanie, aye. All right, the bill's out. We'll add-ons for item 4, SB 934. Herabedian? Stephanie? Aye. Stephanie, aye. Add-ons for item 5, SB 988, Grayson. Brian. Aye. Brian, aye. Harabedian. Pacheco. Aye. Pacheco, aye. Sanchez. Aye. Sanchez, aye. Stephanie. Aye. Stephanie, aye. We'll move the call on item 6, SB 1237, Blake Spear. Macedo. No. Macedo, no. Barak-Cahan. Aye. Barak-Cahan, aye. Brian. Brian, aye. Harabedian. Sanchez. No. Sanchez, no. Bill is out. We'll add-ons item 7, SB 1296 to Rosso. Brian? Brian, aye. Stephanie Aye Stephanie aye We do item nine add SB 1387 Stern Macedo. Macedo, aye. Bauer-Cahan. Aye. Bauer-Cahan, aye. Brian. Aye. Brian, aye. Harabedian. Sanchez. I'm sorry. Okay. Aye. Aye. Sanchez, aye on SB 1387. Okay. So we'll just hold the roll open for a few more minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Item 1, SB-99, Blakespear. Herbeating. Aye. Herbeating, aye. Item 2, SB-747, Wiener. Herbeating. Aye. Herbeating, aye. Item 3, SB-932, Hurtado. Herbeating. Aye. Herbeating, aye. Item 4, SB-934, Wiener. Herbeating. Aye. Herbeating, aye. Item 5, SB-985, Grayson. Herbeating. Aye. Herbeating, aye. Item 6, SB-1237, Blakespear. Herbeating. Aye. Herbeating, aye. Item 8, SB-1344, Cabaldon. Herbeating. Aye. Herbeating, aye. 37 Stern. Hair Beating. Hair Beating, aye. Rejourn. Man, this is the best we've ever had to meet here. No? No? It's new. It's new. I don't remember the last time we were done. Thank you. Thank you.

Source: Judiciary — 2026-06-09 (partial) · June 9, 2026 · Gavelin.ai