May 12, 2026 · Transportation & Energy · 7,584 words · 15 speakers · 131 segments
Excused. Catlin.
Here.
Exum. Excused.
Lindstedt.
Present.
Mullico.
Here.
Pelton.
Here.
Sullivan.
Here.
Mr. Vice Chair.
Here.
And Madam Chair.
Present.
Okay. Our bill sponsors are at the desk, I see. We're here to hear House Bill 1112. Who would like to start us off?
Minority Leader Simpson. Thank you, Madam Chair and committee members. I'm not wanting to take up much of your time today in discussions with DNR and regulation of underground injection control wells. We're not ready to move this forward, so I would respectfully ask for you to postpone it indefinitely and my commitment to work with DNR over the summer to get it to a better spot. Thank you.
Senator Heinrichson, did you have anything to add?
No, grateful to my co-prime for efforts on this and to his commitment to carry this forward. I look forward to seeing what comes from these discussions over the interim and cheering you along next year.
Okay, wonderful. So we need to...
Senator Ball. Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that House Bill 26-1112 be postponed indefinitely.
That is a proper motion. Ms. Forbes, can you please call the roll?
Senators Baisley.
Aye.
Catlin.
Yes.
Senator... Senator...
Oh, yes.
Just say aye.
I already called.
Senator Exum.
Good afternoon.
It was riveting, yeah.
Aye.
Lindstedt.
Aye.
Mullica.
Yes.
Johnson.
Aye.
Sullivan.
Aye.
Mr. Vice Chair. Aye. And Madam Chair. Aye at the sponsor's request.
Thank you, gentlemen. Thanks, committee. Okay. We're going to take just a moment while my co-sponsor heads up. So we should be able to start soon on our next bill. Thank you.
Cheers. Cheers. I'll take it. I'm good. We're real good. No, the bill was the school of mine. I didn tell it I going to go over there and I too much spice over there You've got stomach aches. No, I get it.
It's something I'm not asking for you. So when I was a county commissioner, the guy that I did not give a bid to because he was – he weaseled his way in and got the bids beforehand. So I would not give him the bid on our vehicles. Called my uncle because my uncle did all kinds of business with him. My uncle called me and said, what the hell are you doing? I go, I swear to God. I see that son of a bitch. I'm going to cut his nuts off because he does not call you. And he's like, if he wants to call me, here's my phone number. You give him my phone number. But I said, for him to call you, oh, my God, that is the biggest chicken shit thing I've ever done with it.
Oh, my. It's getting long. Was it on?
Yours is on.
Oh, mine's on. Well, you know, transparency is good. Transparency is good.
Sorry.
Isn't that interesting It's a little зем break devil about me because between me we have a lot voy Clint and evoking and why we have a lot of things Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Oh, I got presents, even though you're going to kill my bill.
Oh, we're starting.
No, sir.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay. We will call our committee back to order. The next bill we have up is House Bill 26-12-73. We have Senators Wallace and Cutter who would like to go first.
Senator Cutter. Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, for considering House Bill 1273. Uber and Lyft want us to believe they're simply technology platforms connecting riders and drivers, that they are implementing meaningful safety measures. But that story falls apart the second you follow the money. In committee hearings on this bill, drivers showed that when Uber first launched and drivers signed up, they kept up to 90% of the fare and the company took 10% because at that time, even Uber understood something very basic. The driver was carrying almost all of the cost and all of the risk. The driver buys leases owns or rents the car The driver pays for the gas The driver pays for insurance The driver pays for tires brakes maintenance and repairs The driver absorbs the depreciation. The driver pays for the cell phone. And if there's a pothole in the road, the driver has to pay for repairs. It's timely. It's timely. I thought that was a timely reference. But then the business model changed, and the commission on the platform took doubled. Then in 2022, Uber and Lyft introduced what they called upfront pricing. That was a turning point. From that moment on, there was no longer a fixed commission or transparent service fee. Instead, companies began using algorithms to separately determine what riders would pay and what drivers would earn. Passengers were paying more while drivers were earning less. And I was sharing this morning that I have had that happen to me in rides before where I remember at some conference I was at last year, the driver was saying how the prices fluctuated so much and how he was getting so little of the fare that it was almost not worth it. And a friend of his had driven the same stretch, the same ride, like the night before and received way more. They're all based on algorithms, and it's just inherently an unfair system. And that's what the data shows. Platform fees surged more than 33% in a single year, while driver pay barely moved. These are workers. These are people trying to support their families. Uber and Lyft now take around 40% on average from fares and sometimes as much as 65% or 70% on individual rides. one rider paid more than 72 for a ride while the driver just received 24 dollars and absorbed all that maintenance how is that and all the gas and all the costs associated with that how is that fair this is a ginormous company ginormous platform making huge money um and their ceos are quite profitable and the driver is receiving like barely minimum wage another passenger paid nearly 49, while the driver just got $15.96. The person doing the work is receiving a fraction of the fare, while the corporation behind the app makes the majority. I will now turn it over to my co-prime. Senator Wallace.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The consequences of this business model are showing up everywhere. Drivers report staying on the road exhausted because they cannot afford to stop driving. They report working in pain because the pay is so unpredictable. They report accepting rides they believe may be unsafe because they are trying to hit bonuses or avoid being punished by the algorithm. So yes, this conversation is absolutely about wages, but it is also about safety. Because when companies keep squeezing workers harder and harder in pursuit of higher profits, safety does not stay untouched. It becomes part of the tradeoff. At the heart of Uber's business is artificial intelligence. Uber pioneered the use of AI in the ride share industry using algorithms and data systems to monitor drivers, manage performance, and trigger deactivations. Nearly three in four drivers, or 73%, who declined low fare rides in the past three months report that the app either slowed down their rides or their earnings went down because The app continued to offer them low fare rides. One third of drivers report that in the past three months, rides slowed down in the app when they are approaching the amount of rides they need to achieve a bonus or the next level in Uber's rewards program. An overwhelming majority of drivers, nearly 80%, agree that driving on the Uber app feels like gambling. The occasional good fare keeps them going. This bill prohibits a transportation network company, a TNC, like Uber or Lyft, from retaining more than 20% of a consumer fare, excluding tips and pass-through, such as toll payments, for any transportation task. In addition, a TNC cannot impose a fee on a driver unless the take amount plus the percentage amount of the fee does not exceed the 20%. When someone gets into a car in Colorado, the person behind the wheel should take home the majority of the fare. that's common sense, that's fairness, and that's exactly what this bill delivers. I urge a yes vote, and we thank you for your consideration.
Thank you, Senator Wallace. Are there any questions from the committee?
I'll ask one question. So, and I appreciate you bringing this bill, and I know this bill comes from a good place of wanting to protect workers. My understanding is that this policy is passed in a couple places, or at least one place, And in the studies that they've done, they found that the wages or the amount that drivers take home doesn't go up because drivers get paid more per ride, but more drivers start to drive. And so drivers, like on average, spend a lot more time idle. So there's fewer rides to go around. And so at the end of the day, the actual money that the drivers take home doesn't increase when they've instituted this type of cap. So also maybe I know we'll have some panels who might be able to speak to this, too. But I would just be curious your reaction to that, because my concern is just that from what we know where this has happened, it doesn't appear to have the intended effect.
Senator Cutter. whatever, the bottom line for me is that it's important to do the right thing and treat the workers right, and then hopefully things will follow along. Any other questions from the committee?
Okay, seeing none, we will proceed to our testimony phase. Any preference on the witness order? Okay, great. So we will start with amend and against. I think we only have folks in against position, so I will call up Francisco Avalos. This is remote. And Stephanie Sass, also remote. And if there's anyone in here who's in a oppose or amend position, please come forward. Okay. Mr. Avalos, welcome to T&E. You have two minutes. Please state your name and who you represent and proceed with your testimony.
Yeah. Good afternoon, Chair Cutter, Vice Chair Ball, and members of the committee. My name is Francisco Avalos, Senior Public Policy Manager at Lyft. and I here in respectful opposition to HB 261273 Lyft shares the goal of ensuring drivers are fairly compensated and riders have affordable reliable service This bill delivers the opposite A take rate is by nature dynamic It reflects real-time market conditions such as driver supply and rider demand. Any artificial cap on take rate or earnings floor without a serious discussion of market impacts will likely result in higher fares and therefore lower demand as some consumers find ride shares no longer affordable. When demand falls, drivers have less opportunities to earn, which can end up hurting their take-home pay. Colorado drivers currently earn over $35 an hour per engaged hour on average. This bill puts that at risk because driver earnings are a function of ride volume, not just per trip margins. Fewer riders, again, means fewer trips and lower overall earnings for the very driver this bill claims to protect. What makes this bill particularly damaging is that it does not account for all external fees, the ride costs that go to neither the driver or Lyft. In Colorado, external fees alone, including state-mandered insurance, including UMUIM coverage, often exceed the 20% cap. That's before Lyft retained a single cent for operations, safety technology, or background checks. It is rare for any industry to face a statutory cap on revenue. Doing so removes all flexibility to raise driver earnings, invest in safety, and respond to market conditions. Lyft's dynamic marketplace is constantly working to strike a balance between competitive fares and ETAs, attractive earnings for drivers, and reasonable profits, while also taking into account all of the external fees. The riders hurt the most by this are the most vulnerable. I know I'm out of time. I will just end by saying that transparency is already the law. SB 24 075 requires that both rider and drivers
can see both the fare and earnings. It should be given time to work. Thank you, Mr. Avalos. Thank you for your testimony. We're going to move on to our next witness. Ms. Sass, you have two minutes. Please state your name and who you represent and proceed with your testimony.
Thank you so much. Good afternoon, Chair Cutter, Vice Chair Ball, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Stephanie Sass, and I'm the Public Policy Manager for Uber Technologies in the southwestern U.S., including Colorado. I'm here today to respectfully oppose HB 1273. We support the efforts to strengthen driver earnings, but HB 1273 implements rigid price controls that ignore the economic reality of providing rideshare service here in Colorado. This bill assumes that every dollar a rider pays simply is split between the driver and Uber, but that's not how rideshare pricing works. A significant portion of every fare goes toward commercial insurance, government-mandated fees, taxes, airport charges, credit card processing fees, customer support, safety processes, and technology infrastructure. In Colorado, more than 20% of the average fare is already consumed by taxes, fees, and mandated insurance costs alone before accounting for basic operating expenses. Because these costs do not appear under an 80-20 mandate, the math becomes unavoidable. Rider fares would have to rise dramatically, likely doubling just to comply. Those increases will hit underserved communities the hardest. Today, more than one-third of Denver-area trips serve underserved areas like southwest Denver. In smaller and seasonal markets, this bill may make it so that service will become economically impossible altogether. The impact on drivers would also be severe. More than half of Colorado drivers use Uber fewer than 20 hours per week. But under this bill, platforms may no longer be able to provide commercial insurance on behalf of drivers. If drivers are forced to purchase their own commercial policies many part drivers will simply leave the platform We already seen this happen in Seattle After similar regulations took effect fares increased by more than 40 demand dropped sharply and drivers now spend more time waiting for trips and earning less overall. Finally, the spill creates a direct penalty on safety innovation. Under a rigid 80-20 structure, every investment on new safety tools, rider verification, 24-7 support, new safety technology requires even higher rider fares to remain compliant. We respectfully urge a no vote on this and again grateful for the time to speak with the committee. Thank you.
Thank you, Mrs. Sass. Committee members, any questions? Senator Axum.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Avalos, thank you for being here. Thanks for your testimony. Can you talk about the external fees and what that includes?
Yeah, a majority of the external fees include the insurance coverages, the million-dollar insurance liability policy that is included, the relatively new UMUIM coverage that was included a few years ago. That's a big percentage of it. Local, state, and taxes are others as well. airport fees and other kind of fees that may be included in the fair as well, or that may be taken from the, that may be as part of the fair that need to be paid.
Senator Exum. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Avalos, for that response. Can you give me like an average of what your fees and taxes would be on an annual basis?
Mr. Avalos. On average, per ride, about 20% of the fare is going to these external fees.
Okay, thank you, sir.
Senator Baisley.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Sass, would you describe also the, especially the tax impact, so external fees but the external costs, But is there could you give us like an average percentage of the the cost to you for taxation in particular? Miss Sass. Through the chair, thank you so much. I'm not sure I have that exact number on me. I can tell you that I know that over 20 percent of the rider fare already goes towards taxes and fees. Happy to try to go back to my team and see if we can get you a more exact number in terms of taxes on average per ride. Senator Baisley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, not necessary, Ms. Sass. Thank you for offering. I was just trying to get a ballpark. So it sounds like both of you are saying in the 20% range is fees and taxes that you cannot control that have to happen.
Thank you. Committee members, any additional questions?
I have one. Mr. Avalos, you mentioned that workers get $35 for every engaged hour, I think was the phrase you used.
That's right. But just to confirm, I mean, when you're idling, waiting for a ride, that doesn't count as an engaged hour, correct, Mr. Avalos? Yeah, through the chair, there are three periods on any given ride. Period one is when you're logged onto the app waiting to be matched with the next ride or opportunity. Then there's P2, which is when you're deployed and dispatched to the actual ride. And then there's P3 when you actually have someone in the vehicle. When I say engage time, that's for P2 and P3.
So during P1 that the waiting period in between rides Thank you Mr Avalos So do you know how much the hourly rate is if you account for all of those periods Because it seems like for the person driving that all work basically
Mr. Avalos? Yeah, I mean, I think people's work is certainly dynamic in nature as well, when they're logging on, logging off, when they're multi-apping, going between one app or another. And so there's a lot of factors that go into that P1 period. That said, I don't have an exact figure for all three periods, but similarly happy to gather that information and bring it back.
Thank you. Okay, seeing no further questions, we will go on to our next panel of witnesses. Thank
you very much. We'll now call up Kirsten Forseth, Becky Davis, Ken O'Donnell, and Christopher Bonham. Ms. Forseth, would you like to lead us off?
MS. Yes.
Wonderful. You have two minutes. Please state your name and who you represent and proceed with your testimony.
MS. Okay, great. My name is Kirsten Forseth and I'm here representing the Colorado AFL-CIO in support of HB 1273. I have worked on transportation network company policy for over 10 years now, so I just want to take you back in time. In 2014, I was the chief of staff for the Senate Democrats when Uber was issued a cease and desist order from the PUC. They started operating the state with no legal authority. The legislature then decided to create a separate regulatory scheme for TNCs, forcing taxis out of business, which were highly regulated. The taxi drivers were making a good living. Now, not so much. In 2014, the biggest selling point used during the debate was how, as independent contractors, individuals will be able to not just make a living, but thrive, even part-time. Instead, it has been a nightmare for some, particularly those relying on this as their full-time employment. Transportation network companies want it both ways. They consider these drivers independent contractors, but instead of being simply a platform that facilitates the transaction between the passenger and the driver, the TNC is a gatekeeper, or in other words, an employer. They determine the amount charged to the passenger. They determine which drivers receive an offer. They determine how much the driver will be paid. Whether a driver is making $100 per hour versus $5 per hour is irrelevant. It is not the business of Uber and Lyft to determine for an independent contractor. Yet they do. Independent contractors cover all expenses that employers typically pick up. Taxes, health care, vehicle mileage reimbursement, workers' compensation, unemployment insurance, rest breaks, and retirement. So what is the dollar amount per hour that compensates for all in addition to making a living? As my dad would say, none-ya. It's none-ya business. Uber and Lyft cannot claim these are independent contractors while acting like employers. Sorry, I'm over.
Thank you, Mrs. Forseth. We'll now move on to Ms. Davis. Welcome to T&E. Please proceed with your testimony. Oh, and can we move a mic over? Thank you. Whenever you're ready. That's okay. We can share.
All right. Thank you. My name is Becky Davis and I am driver. Under the current model, the turnover rate for drivers is 180 percent. So I don't know where they get their rates, but that is the turnover. But they entice new drivers with higher take rates when they first start. And then as the months go on, the take rate becomes less and less. And so what drivers do to make more is they invest in EVs, Excels, double Excels. They used to do Lux and then Black vehicles, which pay more, thinking that they'll earn more money. And because they're promised that. Actually, with the EVs, they They were told if you buy a new EV through their company, with combination with a promotion with Hertz or whoever, that they would earn an extra dollar per ride if they did that. So drivers bought EVs and they were getting a dollar more per ride. And actually there's some debate about that. But now they've dropped it off completely. So now they've invested in an electrical vehicle and they no longer make that extra dollar that they were promised. The lux category, which people bought into, they bought high-end cars to try and lure in better business because that's what Uber and Lyft said that they could do. They've dropped the lux category entirely. So now you have a high investment into this, and it's a bait and switch for drivers, because you have a feeling that you're going to make more. And a lot of drivers have actually invested up to $80,000 in the black SUVs, and they are sleeping in their vehicles up at the airport. I mean, that's the reality. but ensuring that the 20% take rate, that would allow for a more honest depiction that one might expect before they make the investment and it would also provide dignity, longevity and security within the gig economy while also providing safer rides, enriching the Denver community rather than Silicon Valley. The other thing is that this take rate, that they always say 30%, and as you mentioned, 20% goes to these other things. And I've provided in a handout, these are my actual weekly amounts and the percentages they take. Sometimes they make more than I do. And, but those are there to review, and you can see the breakdown of everything that they take out. So when they say 30%, and you see the advertisements in news articles, they advertise it, they go on different programs, but that lures in drivers. And it also makes their shareholders and the public think that we are making a lot more than we actually do. So I do ask you to vote yes on the take rate bill today.
Thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you. Next, we will go to Mr. O'Donnell.
Hi thank you Mr Chair and members of the committee My name is Ken O and I am the treasurer of the board of directors for the Drivers Cooperative of Colorado I here today as a stakeholder and urge you to support this bill Some of the critics may claim that an 80-20 split is unworkable or will force the companies to exit Colorado market. However, as the treasurer of one of these TNCs, I can tell you that it is a false choice. The co-op is already successfully operating under this type of model. If an out-of-state entity chooses to reduce their footprint to protect excessive margins, our cooperative is prepared to ensure that rideshare remains a stable, available, inexpensive, and essential service for all Coloradans. Today in testimony, you heard the other two companies claim that they'd be forced to double their fares and become a luxury service if this bill passes. But that would only happen if they choose to continue the status quo of greed and manipulation. They are currently pulling out the, oh, feel sorry for us card as they fight similar bills across the country. Well, I'll pause for a moment so you can hear thousands of Colorado drivers pulling out their violins for them. But this bill is not about redemption. It is actually about a $22 million stimulus package for the Colorado drivers and the local businesses where they spend their money. We're talking about the rents, the mortgages, the coffee shops, the car washes, the dealerships and the restaurants. We're talking about keeping $22 million every year in Colorado without the fares increasing one penny because the drivers are going to be getting more of this fare. And I will note, as a financial officer, I must address something deeply concerning. Recently, Uber's Q1 report showed that they're now attempting to hide their wholly owned self-insurance captives as straight pass-throughs. They're trying to position themselves, and you heard in the testimony, to argue that this self-insurance somehow doesn't belong to them. This is demonstrably false, and they are simply moving money from one pocket to the other to hide their 50% or more take rate. I urge the rulemakers to not allow this sleight of hand to work its way into the implementation of this bill if it passes. And I would also love the opportunity to give you the real answers to the questions that you asked the other TNCs. But for now, I beg you to say yes. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. O'Donnell. Next, we'll go to Mr. Bonham. You have two minutes. Please proceed.
Good afternoon, and thank you for allowing me to testify this afternoon on Health Bill 1273. My name is Chris Bonham. I've been a driver since 2014. Currently, I work at Colorado Independent Drivers United. I'm on the organizing staff over here. At the very beginning, when this all started out, at that point in time, me and a lot of other drivers were making roughly about 70 to 80 percent off of each fare. that went on for as long as uh uber and lift allowed it and then they saw the money they were making off of the off the backs of uh passengers and they uh at that point they cut they cut the wages in half and it's never changed since then if anything a lot of us drivers out there were uh subsidizing uber and lift's platform there you know i can't tell i cannot begin to tell everybody how many times I've gone out to the airport lot and I've seen drivers sleeping in their cars. I see the same thing at the lot down in Colorado Springs. I'm seeing drivers coming into our deactivation center every single week. They're struggling 14, 16, 18 hours a day, multi-platforms, just to break even. And it's heartbreaking and it's unethical to see it happen. I don buy that Uber and Lyft cannot possibly possibly afford to pay us 80 off of each fair especially when the Colorado Co is doing it We can do better by Coloradans We can bring in the badly needed money these drivers need instead of the pockets of out-of-state billionaires. I urge this committee to make the right choice here and vote yes on this bill. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bonham. Committee members, any questions for our witnesses?
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. O'Donnell, can you tell me, you said you had some answers for unanswered questions from the earlier panel?
Yeah. Mr. O'Donnell. Through the chair? Yep. Thank you. Thank you for that question. I think the chairperson had asked the question about, first of all, how in other areas where they've implemented the same bill. And I think it's important to clarify that this is actually the first of its kind if it were to pass. Other areas have legislated mandatory rideshare fee per minute per mile rate cards in other markets of Seattle and Minneapolis. But in earlier testimony, you heard somebody from Seattle say that they basically asked for way too much when it comes to a per minute per mile. And there was an influx of drivers coming in. But here's the thing is that the free market is not allowed to operate in this space of ride share because we don't have the ability to shop our labor. So, yes, while there may be some more drivers that would come on to the platform, that would eventually kind of level itself out. So that's the real answer to that question. We don't have anybody that's doing 80-20. We only have a few markets of data on the higher rates per minute per mile. And one of the other questions that you asked is about active versus engaged mile. And that's always the song and dance that the TNCs give. They always just say, oh, we make $30 per hour. Well, that's the time that you actually take a ride and open the door or take the ride and then close the door after the passenger leaves. Drivers sit around idly, sometimes 45 minutes out of an hour. So if you actually calculate that, our estimate at the co-op is that most of the drivers under these other traditional platforms make less than $20 an hour. And in some cases, and then if you were to take out the cost of all those rides that they end up doing at 70 cents per mile, they're making less than federal minimum wage at $7.65 or whatever it is per hour. So they like to give a lot of smoke and mirrors about what the actual rates are that they're paying. But the reality is, is that drivers are making way less than minimum wage, especially after you especially after the expenses. And I can't remember what one of the other questions was. But if you have any more, I'd be more than happy to give you the real ones.
Thank you for that answer, Mr. O'Donnell.
Any other questions from the committee? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony. We will proceed to the next panel. Next up we have, and I apologize if I get some of these pronunciations wrong, Samuel Kiekeku, Mr. Abdi Booney, Dr. Ernest S.L. Kaitou, Tansi Dalka, and Karim Sawadogo. If you are in the room, please come forward. If you are online, please accept your promotion. While we wait for folks to join us online, we'll start here in the room. Sir, if you'd like to state your name and who you represent, you have two minutes to testify.
And the button I think it on Good afternoon Mr Chair and member of committee My name is Karim Sawadu I lived in Uber driver for the last 10 years I have over 40,000 rides for both companies, and I've been working for like 60 hours a week. Right now, I'm working over 80 hours. And the worst part, I'm putting over 120,000 miles per year, and I'm making less than half of my 60 hours of income. Right now, more drivers rely on government benefits, such like food stamps, Section 8 housing, Medicare, Medicare to survive. When Uber and Lyft make a record profit and donate a million dollars to politician campaign, It's so unfair that Uber and Lyft take 60 to 70 percent of the fare when I'm working and I'm paying everything, like gas, maintenance, toll, and I'm begging you to vote yes on this bill. Uber and Lyft always make a misstatement of paying drivers $35 per hour, and I'm really making less than $8 per hour. On this bill, your yes vote is freeing 45,000 drivers of Colorado from modern slavery. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Now we will go online. Let's go to Abdi Bouni.
You have two minutes. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, members of the committee. My name is Abdi Bouni. I am a member of Colorado Independent Drivers United, and I am also an active Uber and Lyft driver. Like many of my peers, I am deeply concerned by the ever-increasing percentage taken by the TLC from our total fares. When a trip is completed, drivers are too often left in the dark about how the final phase is actually split between the platform and the person behind the wheel. I am left only with crumbs for just like all the drivers. I have been driving in the Denver metro area for 25 years. My experience began 2000 with Yellow Cabin Metro, where I eventually served as a driver's trainer. Beyond the driver's seat, I have dedicated my career to leadership and advocacy. I served as a president of ProTaxi, representing over 570 drivers. In 2009, I was a founding member and president of Union Taxi Cooperative, the first cooperative in Colorado. Later, I served as a general manager and president for Green Taxi Cooperative, which grew to 800 members under my leadership. Throughout my career, I have worked closely with this body on many legislative changes. I was instrumental in passing House Bill 071114, which regulated lease fees for taxi drivers to ensure they were not being exploited by the companies they were drove for. Today House Bill 1273 addresses very similar struggles. The same issues of fairness that we fought regarding rivalries increases two decades ago have reserved service in the gig economy. This bill is necessary evaluation of the work we began years ago. I am here today to offer my wealth of knowledge to this committee and to urge your support for House Bill 1273. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Booney. Next we will go to Tansy Dalka. You have two minutes. Please state your name, who you represent, and proceed with your testimony.
Hi, my name is Tansy Dahlke and I am here. I'm actually very new to everything. I've been driving for Uber. I started Uber and Lyft in 2023, right at about three years ago. And I've used it full time for a total of about 12 months. And I drove myself into the ground to try to support myself. So I'm calling on, bear with me. I'm very new. I have my notes here. One, two, seven, three. I'm so sorry. I, as a driver, I have a background in accounting. So I'm looking at these numbers and in my head, I can see roughly I'm getting maybe 40% usually, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, but average in my head, probably about 40%. I'm in the process of inputting all of my data from Uber into a spreadsheet so I can know exactly what my percentages are. I did not get as far along as I wanted to before speaking today, but what I have found is that these are yesterday's numbers. I took 13 trips. And of those 13 trips, one, two, three, four, five, six of those, I received more than 50%. The other ones I received in the 40s of percentages. Their service fee is, for yesterday, their service fee average was 23.13%. and their external fees and taxes, which are all lumped together, was 23.71%. My big questions are, when Uber is presenting how much income they pay us, do they pick and choose which rides are selected to present their official declaration of this is what we pay them? because some rides have a much higher percentage than others. Let's see another. I have other discrepancies but I don know enough about what we arguing for So right now I just here with the raw data numbers and that is what i presented with these thank you thank you miss dalka for your testimony committee
members any questions for i have been uh informed that samuel kikik who has been promoted but has not accepted the promotion so if you can hear me sir and accept your promotion we can hear your your testimony now. I don't see that gentleman coming forward, so committee members, any questions of our witnesses? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony in T&E. That concludes our witness list. Is there anyone else online or in the room who would like to testify on 1273? Seeing none, the witness portion of this hearing is closed. The bill is on the table for any amendments. Sponsors, do you have any amendments? Many members, any amendments? Seeing none. The amendment portion of this hearing is closed. Sponsors, wrap-up comments. Senator Wallace.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, members. And I especially want to thank all of the workers who took time today to come and share their stories with you all. I hope that they made an impression on you in terms of the types of economy that we are pushing more and more folks into. I found it particularly striking and convenient that the TNCs that came to testify did not know their hourly wage for their workers. How convenient for them. Thankfully, the workers were here to tell us. They said $8 an hour, an average of maybe 40% at most, or as one witness put it, crumbs. We are forcing people into poverty. We know from statistics that those are more likely to be low-income drivers and drivers of color who are forced into being long-term ride providers on these apps all the time and making less and less money. Capping rideshare platform fees is an easy and common-sense solution to ensure that rideshare drivers earn their fair share for the work that they do, while curbing rideshare companies' ability to excessively exploit their drivers and manipulate market prices and earnings. Despite providing an essential service to our communities, rideshare drivers are being priced out of economic survival by greedy rideshare companies, raising the amount they take from drivers' fares. Rideshare companies have shown no willingness to voluntarily return to fare commission structures, the same fare structures they use to recruit many drivers to their platforms. Instead, they've used algorithmic complexity to obscure fee increases on all of us and pay drivers less at the same time. Drivers have no opportunity to negotiate. They are put in a situation of take it or leave it and manipulated by the two dominant platforms with nearly identical practices. It is time we step up as a legislature to help address this issue and protect the workers in a key portion of our economy. We appreciate the discussion and ask for your aye vote.
Senator Cutter.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for hearing this bill today, and really particularly thank you for all the witnesses, particularly the workers who came out and shared their stories. That who we should be focusing on today People are really frustrated Do you guys read the news Occasionally I hear about how frustrated people are with politicians I don think I a politician but that how they view us, always doing the right thing for that moment, whatever's expedient. And I think this bill is a great example of that. I mean, these guys, what struck me is they were talking about all the fees, one of the first witnesses, liability insurance, some other insurance that I don't know, local and state taxes, airport fees, and that was about 20% of what they did was external fees. The balance sheet isn't fairly represented. So they're telling you what their external fees are, but when they say, when you see that ride split and you see that worker that's making $20 on a ride where they're making, you know, 75, I think one was 75 and the worker is making 24 or something like that. When you see that, they can have their column with all of the fees and things that they spend out of that $75. But what does the worker spend out of that $24? What is that worker accounting for? They're accounting for gas. They're accounting for their tires, their maintenance of their car, all of the things that go along with being a rideshare driver. And that's not ever accounted for. That is not pure profit for them. And that's outrageous to me that it's being looked at that way by these companies. They're, by constantly supporting these big communications, big corporations, I didn't getting sleep last night, making huge profits, we're contributing to the erosion of the middle class. We are contributing to the erosion of the middle class. If we really care about workers, we need to stand up and support them and quit listening to corporations fighting for every single piece of their share, every slice of the pie that they can get. The TNC talked again about these percentage of expenses, but I looked up just to get an idea of what the average percentage of cost of doing business in the passenger transportation industry. I mean, I know it's not, you know, the same exactly, but passenger transportation industry often ranges from 65% to 90% of revenue. So they're complaining about their slice of the pie isn't big enough that we want them to pay workers a fair wage. So anyway, I just think that we complain about people taking advantage of the system or not working hard or whatever to support their families. And nothing's perfect, but can we maybe err on the side of workers who are trying to support their families and trying to do the right thing and working hard and give them the benefit of the doubt instead of these ginormous corporations? I really, really love this bill, and hearing these workers today really made me love it even more. And I hope you guys were also moved by their really powerful testimony. So thank you again for listening. Oh, yeah, I'll move the bill. I will move House Bill 1273 to the Committee of the Whole.
That is a proper motion. I'm sorry, Appropriations is the proper motion, if you'd like to make that motion again.
Can I move House Bill 1273 to Appropriations?
That is a proper motion Any comments before we take action on the bill Senator Baisley Thank you Mr Chairman Well you know what other industries that this concerns would apply to
All of them. That's just free market. And that's the constant tug and pull all the time for everybody. I mean, we make less than they do. It's the tug and pull. So I don't think it's our role to try to make things fair in the world. That's not the role of government. But the government could take some of its greedy taxation and give that to the drivers. That might be an interesting conversation to have. But I don't think we should be reaching down into private industry and telling them what's fair because that creates a much bigger mess. we instead should entertain, quit being so greedy with our taxation and give that to them. That would be a thought.
Any additional comments?
I'll just say I appreciate you bringing this bill. I'll be a very respectful no today. I agree with your comments, Senator Wallace, and I think it was revealing to hear. I think it was the engaged hour comment about pay. and in response, the gentleman who testified mentioned that on some of the other times when you're on the app, you might be multitasking. If I was not paid for times that I have multitasked at work in my life, my paychecks would be much smaller. That's just not how normal employment works. So I do think this is an area that deserves attention. As I mentioned at the outside, I have some doubts on the policy of the impact that this would have, but hope that this conversation continues in future legislative sessions.
And with that, Ms. Forbes, please call the roll.
Senator is Baisley.
No.
Patlin.
No.
Exum.
Aye.
Lindstedt.
Respectfully, no.
Mullica.
No.
Pelton.
No.
Sullivan.
Yes.
Cutter.
Yes.
And Mr. Chairball.
Respectfully, no.
That fails on a vote of three to six. The last thing we've done.
You want another guess? I move to postpone indefinitely that bill on reverse roll call.
Are there any objections? Seeing none, that motion passes. All right. Before we thank you, Senator Ball, and before we officially adjourn, I just want to say thank you to everyone who's testified and participated. I believe this will be our last committee. So don't act excited over there. So it's just been a pleasure working with all of you, and I am really grateful for the opportunity to work in this space. Again, appreciate all the stakeholders and everyone who's participated and the committee members, of course, and really particularly have appreciated Ms. Forbes. Thank you so much for keeping us all together. we really really really really appreciate you and thank you Wow. Well, with that, T&E is concluded. Thank you.